AD Getting Punished For Gray Market Sales?

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Etschell

rolex is buying back its own watches? yeah right.

if that is true it is one of the most inept business decisions ever. sell a watch for 5k and buy it for double or triple? i may have been born at night but not last night. your ad is suspect.

Perfect. Just perfect.

[replicator]

Once bought the buyer should be able to do as he pleases. This is a free market, and Rolex nor any AD can control that.

PM Daytona sales likely through the roof now because the Ceramic grey price is now almost comparable. AD’s and Rolex both benefiting - ultimately the average consumer is the only one losing.


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[kauffee]

I, for one, hope Rolex continues to buy hot models on the gray market (namely the ones sold as new/unworn) and threatens the ADs who sold those models. It will lead to ADs selling to people they know who actually want to wear the watch and not flip it. We would all be better off.

[MTBer]

Originally Posted by kauffee

I, for one, hope Rolex continues to buy hot models on the gray market (namely the ones sold as new/unworn) and threatens the ADs who sold those models. It will lead to ADs selling to people they know who actually want to wear the watch and not flip it. We would all be better off.

Seems a bit elitist, considering it would effectively preclude those “one watch” people who save for years just to buy that one coveted model.

[037]

ADs should follow through with removing stickers before a watch leaves the store. Seeing brand new watches with stickers on the secondhand market is frustrating.

If someone sells a watch that they fall out of love with, so be it. That will always be impossible to control.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by Jmbarrack

The local Best Buy wants to know why I shop on Amazon, my answer is, I can’t shop there if you don’t have what I need to buy. Case closed.

My mother recently was in the market for a new Rolex (her first she purchased 10 years ago from an AD no longer in business). She didn’t know what she wanted and wanted to try on as many models as should could and most importantly different sizes. The Local AD had bare stock, even a weak selection of DJ configurations. She asked if anything could be ordered, and they gave the standard answer of - we get what we get. Fine, understood - we know how it works.

So she started researching other options and found through Chrono24 a gray dealer about an hour away with - shocker - a huge stock of everything.

She went there and tired on every model she wanted. Decided that a 34mm would be the right size for her, but they didn’t have the model she wanted. She told the dealer the exact configuration - a 34mm OP date with blue dial. He simply said, I’ll have one by the end of the day.

The next day, the exact watch she wanted with box, papers, stickers, brand new was at the store ready for her to pick up with a 10% discount - which he just gave no negotiation needed.

The point of the story is, if the first AD she went to had sufficient stock, she would have never stumbled upon the gray dealer and bought from him. Now she says she will never go to an AD again.


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I'll keep that in mind if I decide to start wearing 34mm ladies watches.

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[rushca01]

I can totally see Rolex having secret shoppers that buy from grey dealers. It’s not like they cant afford to buy the watch at any price...

Luxury brands like Rolex do crazy things...Burberry has admitted to DESTROYING $110,000,000 in clothes in the last 5 years of unsold clothing to make sure it doesn’t end up with the wrong people...so to think that Rolex wouldn’t have secret shoppers buying watches in the grey market isn’t so far fetched...

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

Graymarket watches don’t sell for less… They sell for more.


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Today. Two years ago, I’m not so sure.

[kauffee]

Originally Posted by MTBer

Seems a bit elitist, considering it would effectively preclude those “one watch” people who save for years just to buy that one coveted model.

I don’t think so at all. Two points on this:
1. If gray dealers in places like HK and Singapore didn’t have cases full of stickered SS models, would there be enough supply for AD cases to have Submariners and GMTs again like they did a year and a half ago? Maybe. When I bought my Sub 2 years ago I walked into the AD and they had 4 Sub Dates in the case that day.

2. If you get to know an AD in person you can express your interest and make them realize you’re not a flipper. My Dad always wanted a Daytona. He would stop into his local AD every few months and browse and ask, but they never had one. He saw a BLNR in the case one day and loved it. He still stopped in and would jokingly ask about a Daytona. Then a few months after he bought he BLNR they called him with a black Daytona. Less then a month after that they called him with a white Daytona, which they sold to me. The relationship wasn’t based on purchases, just stopping in and expressing interest in actually owning the watches.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

Can verify that these stories are true.

There is tremendous pressure on dealers to only sell to end-users. Even where I work, we have started to hold papers on watches when we’re not intimately familiar with the clients.

If we sold two dealers, I don’t think we could stay in stock but we wouldn’t remain an AD for very long.

Well after reading many of these similar posts over the many years on forum its most probably below,especially the part about Rolex buying back watches.

[rushca01]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well after reading many of these similar posts over the many years on forum its most probably below,especially the part about Rolex buying back watches.

Burberry burning a 110,000,000 in clothes in a 5 year period to protect the brand image..I wouldn’t put it past Rolex protecting it’s brand by buying highly sought after watches from grey dealers via secret shoppers. We already know they have secret shoppers that call ADs to trip them up.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by eco8gator

. . .
They we're also apparently repremanded by Rolex because a watch they sold (one if the desirables) was resold on the Gray Market. Apparently Rolex bought it back and traced it to the store...sounds like they have an interesting relationship with Rolex...

. . .

Sorry, calling BS on this story.

Anybody can buy a watch at an AD and re-sell it the next day, that isn't the "Grey Market".

[MTBer]

Originally Posted by kauffee

I don’t think so at all. Two points on this:
1. If gray dealers in places like HK and Singapore didn’t have cases full of stickered SS models, would there be enough supply for AD cases to have Submariners and GMTs again like they did a year and a half ago? Maybe. When I bought my Sub 2 years ago I walked into the AD and they had 4 Sub Dates in the case that day.

2. If you get to know an AD in person you can express your interest and make them realize you’re not a flipper. My Dad always wanted a Daytona. He would stop into his local AD every few months and browse and ask, but they never had one. He saw a BLNR in the case one day and loved it. He still stopped in and would jokingly ask about a Daytona. Then a few months after he bought he BLNR they called him with a black Daytona. Less then a month after that they called him with a white Daytona, which they sold to me. The relationship wasn’t based on purchases, just stopping in and expressing interest in actually owning the watches.

I see your points, but in my opinion, Rolex's resistance to meet demand is what's driving these crazy prices. If they were to ensure every one of their jewelers had an SS SubC and GMT in the case ready to purchase, grey dealers would no longer be incentivized to buy up all of these models. It's an unfortunate side effect of Rolex manipulating the market to maintain demand/exclusivity/residual value, but it is their doing.

Regarding the Daytonas, that's incredible that you and your Dad were able to purchase them just a few months after he bought the BLNR. Considering he was able to spend ~$20k in a few month period though, he's probably a little more well-off than the type of person I was talking about who might only be able to afford one Rolex, and can't afford to build any purchase history like your Dad did. Do you think the Daytonas would have been available so quickly had he not bought the BLNR? Impossible to prove either way, but I'm curious what the average wait time is for someone with no history who just stops in every once in awhile so that the AD gets to know them.

[Old Geezer]

The situation with inventory is unfortunate and hopefully will improve so WIS and non-WIS are able to walk into an AD and have a reasonable chance to acquire the watch they want.
I respect an AD’s decision to take care of their VIPs. Why wouldn’t they, that’s good business.
I do believe relationship goes a long way towards determining whether a prospective customer gets a call on a hot piece. My guess and it is only a guess is that the so called lists are there and people are called off that list but I wouldn’t say it’s a straight go down the list calling. I bet a local customer or one that visited a store often or one perceived to be a low likelihood to flip, might edge themselves up the list over others. Who knows, right ? It’s all speculation. Meanwhile we continue to chase the ones we want.

[rudestew]

Not even a ss sub in most uk AD , this strangle hold on the market is causing the stupid high prices. Rolex think tanks know what their doing. Can’t keep blaming flippers and grays

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by Etschell

rolex is buying back its own watches? yeah right.

if that is true it is one of the most inept business decisions ever. sell a watch for 5k and buy it for double or triple? i may have been born at night but not last night. your ad is suspect.

Rolex does buy back it’s own watches from grey market. That’s how they catch their dealers slipping.

Say they buy a Pepsi from David SW for example for 20K. They go right back to the originating dealer DSW bought it from and drop it off and ask (demand) for their 20k back.

Every Rolex dealer is on a ONE YEAR contract. They make these guys walk on eggshells.

[GB-man]

I don’t know what Rolex’s methods are but my dealer is definitely paranoid about watches being resold. This all started post 116500. Before that couldn’t give two He’s an owner not a salesman.

[fishingbear]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

Graymarket watches don’t sell for less… They sell for more.

This hasn’t been the case until the last 18 months or so, sans Daytonas.

[kauffee]

Originally Posted by MTBer

I see your points, but in my opinion, Rolex's resistance to meet demand is what's driving these crazy prices. If they were to ensure every one of their jewelers had an SS SubC and GMT in the case ready to purchase, grey dealers would no longer be incentivized to buy up all of these models. It's an unfortunate side effect of Rolex manipulating the market to maintain demand/exclusivity/residual value, but it is their doing.



Regarding the Daytonas, that's incredible that you and your Dad were able to purchase them just a few months after he bought the BLNR. Considering he was able to spend ~$20k in a few month period though, he's probably a little more well-off than the type of person I was talking about who might only be able to afford one Rolex, and can't afford to build any purchase history like your Dad did. Do you think the Daytonas would have been available so quickly had he not bought the BLNR? Impossible to prove either way, but I'm curious what the average wait time is for someone with no history who just stops in every once in awhile so that the AD gets to know them.

Yeah we were lucky. Small town AD. No way to know if the BLNR influenced the Daytonas. However, I would say Daytonas are a different animal. They’ve always been very scarce. But I think it’s reasonable for someone who wants a GMT or Sub to be able to walk in and buy one.

[Nikrnic]

It's understandable that Rolex holds some control over their ADs just like GM does over their franchised dealers. I also know they can only produce so many watches in a year but it seems to me that they could stop a lot of these shananigens going on by upping production on the more desirable models and lowering it on less desirable ones. Does this sound to simple?

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[jfo2010]

I would think ADs are pretty frustrated with Rolex. How can they make money if they don’t have anything to sell. Imo empty cases at an AD looks pathetic. The AD has wasted space in their shop which could be used to showcase other items. Doesn’t seem like it’s worth the effort for them to bow to Rolex’s demands if they can’t get product to sell.

[Hamstur]

If they took it very seriously, it would be fairly easy to implement a simple registration policy like warranty is transferrable but only valid if registered online by the new owner. I buy from Grey/TS and know I would register. If push came to shove, even make the warranty transferred only if new owner gets their card swiped through an official retailer.

[nvrp813]

Originally Posted by jfo2010

I would think ADs are pretty frustrated with Rolex. How can they make money if they don’t have anything to sell. Imo empty cases at an AD looks pathetic. The AD has wasted space in their shop which could be used to showcase other items. Doesn’t seem like it’s worth the effort for them to bow to Rolex’s demands if they can’t get product to sell.

Rolex needs the ADs as much as the ADs need Rolex. I’m sure they are getting stock that never makes it to the display case.

Case in point, I recently enquired about a black GMT at an AD I have 0 history with. I was told they do not have any GMT model and was not sure when they were getting more. While I was browsing the DJs a gentleman walked in and the salesman said “Mr Anderson (name changes to protect the innocent) what can I help you with?” Mr Anderson told the salesman he would like to purchase a Rolex for his wife and asked if they had the BLNR. Wouldn’t you know it, the salesman comes out of the back with a new BLNR and sold the man 2 watches.

To me, with no purchase history, the man was crying about lack of stock. To the gentleman who’s seemed to have made multiple purchases at this AD, the world was his oyster.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Etschell

cant they do that from a picture or inquiry? but i digress. their plan isnt working. it is just make things worse for end users and ads. except the vips which it would never matter in any event.

That would be similar to hear say evidence. Having the watch in hand proves it was sold.

[MTBer]

Originally Posted by kauffee

Yeah we were lucky. Small town AD. No way to know if the BLNR influenced the Daytonas. However, I would say Daytonas are a different animal. They’ve always been very scarce. But I think it’s reasonable for someone who wants a GMT or Sub to be able to walk in and buy one.

Considering I prefer my Speedmaster over the Daytona, I'd have no problem with this being the only SS model that's impossible to find

Originally Posted by Nikrnic

It's understandable that Rolex holds some control over their ADs just like GM does over their franchised dealers. I also know they can only produce so many watches in a year but it seems to me that they could stop a lot of these shananigens going on by upping production on the more desirable models and lowering it on less desirable ones. Does this sound to simple?

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Originally Posted by jfo2010

I would think ADs are pretty frustrated with Rolex. How can they make money if they don’t have anything to sell. Imo empty cases at an AD looks pathetic. The AD has wasted space in their shop which could be used to showcase other items. Doesn’t seem like it’s worth the effort for them to bow to Rolex’s demands if they can’t get product to sell.

I had a similar conversation with my AD that sold me my Datejust a few months ago. They too lamented the lack of availability, but added that the resulting exclusivity helps keep Rolex above other luxury brands that overproduce; which is funny, because Rolex wants their jewelers to sell as many watches as they can, yet hamstrings their efforts by holding out on what people want to buy...the irony wasn't lost on them.

As for why jewelers put up with Rolex, the sign has to be a great marketing tool even towards those with no intention of buying a watch- if I see two jewelers next to each other, I'm going to assume that the one selling Rolex also has a nicer, more high-end selection of other jewelry too.

[jfo2010]

Originally Posted by nvrp813

Rolex needs the ADs as much as the ADs need Rolex. I’m sure they are getting stock that never makes it to the display case.

Case in point, I recently enquired about a black GMT at an AD I have 0 history with. I was told they do not have any GMT model and was not sure when they were getting more. While I was browsing the DJs a gentleman walked in and the salesman said “Mr Anderson (name changes to protect the innocent) what can I help you with?” Mr Anderson told the salesman he would like to purchase a Rolex for his wife and asked if they had the BLNR. Wouldn’t you know it, the salesman comes out of the back with a new BLNR and sold the man 2 watches.

To me, with no purchase history, the man was crying about lack of stock. To the gentleman who’s seemed to have made multiple purchases at this AD, the world was his oyster.

So how can they grow their business if they only sell the “hot” models to previous customers? That doesn’t open the door for a new repeat customers if that customer can’t buy watch #1.

[LuminousMaximus]

Originally Posted by Etschell

rolex is buying back its own watches? yeah right.

if that is true it is one of the most inept business decisions ever. sell a watch for 5k and buy it for double or triple? i may have been born at night but not last night. your ad is suspect.

Ha ha I said the same thing good call

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Etschell

rolex is buying back its own watches? yeah right.

if that is true it is one of the most inept business decisions ever. sell a watch for 5k and buy it for double or triple? i may have been born at night but not last night. your ad is suspect.

They have. Only for the purposes of determining origin, in the UK at least. I doubt it’s widespread but it has happened and it was enough to scare AD’s. Its smart for any business to track perceived threats to the brand and they do consider this an issue as basically brand new watches being sold outside the dealer network isnt a good look.


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[BlakeA]

Originally Posted by jfo2010

So how can they grow their business if they only sell the “hot” models to previous customers? That doesn’t open the door for a new repeat customers if that customer can’t buy watch #1.

When I was born, there were less than 3 billion people on the planet. There's now 7.6 billion. That's about 4 billion too many, but there will always be plenty of people to sell Rolex watches to.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jfo2010

So how can they grow their business if they only sell the “hot” models to previous customers? That doesn’t open the door for a new repeat customers if that customer can’t buy watch #1.

The AD isn’t growing their business. That’s the unfortunate part. Not enough watches and too many people requesting one. Might as well keep repeat customers happy as they are already loyal. Whats the point of having even more repeat customers they cant get watches for?


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