Bad Experience dealing with Alex 21

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Alex21

He said : Giving him the benefit of doubt, I suggested for him to pay for repair and I will provide the repair chit from rolex. He says it's not his fault that it's dented. He didn't realised it and he told me photos was sent etc.
Me : I said i never said 'It's not my fault' regarding his statement. I was just in shock and looking for my pictures high res on pc to check this 'dent' if it was there or not.


You said : [QUOTE Anyway this is a private transaction and its up to the buyer and seller to work it out.

Agreed. This a private transaction and was willing to give him full refund. I understand he doesn't want full refund since this is a great deal and 150USD will only shrink his comfortable profit since he already got full refund from fedex. I get it, there was a deal between us and this is none of my business how much profit he makes.
However, i was on whatsapp with him for conflict resolution and told him to hold on while i was checking my pictures high res on pc. Was looking for them when i learned he already bad mouthed me on TRF. Okay, no problem, let's put aside the pictures and resolution of conflict. I had to act quick to give my full version because people were already portraying me as the bad guy. Anyway, my decision is already taken, i won't sell again to international. I never thought this type of scenario could happened. I should have written a clause saying : "After inspection, if you buy it, you're responsible". How in the world i'm certain him or his client didn't damage the crown accidentally? because he has more references than me? Although i personally do trust him and see no reason why he would lie to me since he paid me first but still, i wish a better protection should have been put in place to protect both of us.
As said before, there was no rush, i would have done more pictures to fullfill buyer requests, more time of webcam if necessarly to make sure both parties agreed on watch that has been shown. I definitely think now i have failed to protect myself with this clause from international buyers.
My advice is stick with local buyers only and meet at AD. The only way to sell a Rolex with no trouble.[/QUOTE]

a refund is stupid like i said.
if I am going to ship the watch back to you, lose another $150-$200 USD for shipping and insurance.

Or have it fix my own and lose less?

it doesn't make any economical sense.

Fedex did refund me on the shipping because delivery date was delayed. Please don't bring a separate issue in.

[gaoxing84]

it's ok Yacine, do what you do.

I am fine. good luck in selling watches.

I have done tons of international deals. All sellers with unnoticeable defects are willing to fix the problem but it's a small percentage that happened. but you're the first that doesn't.

Let the mods decide if this thread should stay.

I am out. you can argue further if you want.

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

The dents are obvious from your own pictures. If you care about your reputation here as a seller, refund the $150.

exactly my point.

it was obvious even in his own blurry photos after you know what you're looking for.

even if you don't see it at first or swear that it isn't there

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Alex21

The dents are not obvious with naked eye and were obvious only when zoomed in. I honestly never noticed that. Looking forward with OP to resolve this issue.

there's no resolve here. you're not willing to pay for the repairs.
so be it.
I ain't gonna send back the watch.

[gaoxing84]

Sent the rolex for replacement of the crown.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

it isn't strange at all.

it's either you're lying or i am.

i don't see why i need to cheat you out of 150 usd.

i don't see a need to start something like this to destroy my good standing reputation.

I don't see either why i would lie when you know that i got paid first and i'm still caring about this issue. I'm trying to understand what happened to this watch and answering to all questions. On top of that, i spent the whole day trying to figure out what really happened when in fact i could have left you with no answer. I'm not like this, i'm really honest and i know i never cheated.
I'm in right to question myself what happened to this watch as soon as you got it. As for example, is that possible that your client or anybody else around you hurt this watch by accident without you noticed it? maybe someone else who shipped the watch to your client did it accidentally? maybe someone who's working with you? those type of questions. See it's not just you and me, but others around you. You said it before, the watch was in hands of your client for a day if i well understood you.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

it's ok Yacine, do what you do.

I am fine. good luck in selling watches.

I have done tons of international deals. All sellers with unnoticeable defects are willing to fix the problem but it's a small percentage that happened. but you're the first that doesn't.

Let the mods decide if this thread should stay.

I am out. you can argue further if you want.

You so sure the dents come from me because you have tons of international deals and some pays you in similar situations. I hear you. I have no international deals other than you and i have no reference. You think you detain the truth wishiing me sarcastically good luck in selling watches. Got it.

[gaoxing84]

That's just sad Yacine.
Very sad.

I rest my case. :) no point arguing further since there's no solution.

Mods please decide if the thread stays.

Thank you.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

Like i told you over whatsapp.

Watch was received on Monday 5th November.
I took pictures and sent it to a client.
All looks good. Why? because nobody knew there was a 2 dents.

Nobody knew there was 2 dents? then why your photo titled
"The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo" is pointing out the 2 dents on Monday 5th November before your client looked at it with the loupe on November 7th?

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Alex21

Nobody knew there was 2 dents? then why your photo titled
"The day i received the watch and i took this - I have the fedex delivery date and timestamp of the photo" is pointing out the 2 dents on Monday 5th November before your client looked at it with the loupe on November 7th?

I took the photo upon receiving the watch on 5th November Monday.
Send the pictures to my client.
Nobody saw the dent because nobody knew there was a dent.

Only upon inspection on Wed 7th November. Under a loupe we saw the dent.
And took the picture under the loupe and sent to you.
So I went back to check the photos that I sent to my client and saw the dent as well

I said this many times. I don't understand why is it so hard for you to comprehend this. Go read again what I said.

I already close my case.
Just my luck dealing with someone like you.
I thought you were great but you're not.

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Alex21

I don't see either why i would lie when you know that i got paid first and i'm still caring about this issue. I'm trying to understand what happened to this watch and answering to all questions. On top of that, i spent the whole day trying to figure out what really happened when in fact i could have left you with no answer. I'm not like this, i'm really honest and i know i never cheated.
I'm in right to question myself what happened to this watch as soon as you got it. As for example, is that possible that your client or anybody else around you hurt this watch by accident without you noticed it? maybe someone else who shipped the watch to your client did it accidentally? maybe someone who's working with you? those type of questions. See it's not just you and me, but others around you. You said it before, the watch was in hands of your client for a day if i well understood you.

The watch was sealed by you.
Sent to fedex.
Unopened.
Opened by me.
Nobody shipped the watch.
I met the client face to face.
I sent you a photo of me meeting another guy.

The watch was in my possession from the day I received till Wednesday.
Stop saying that I left it with someone else.
What's wrong with you dude?
I said that like 5 times over whatsapp.
Stop trying to push the blame.

My God.

The photos from you clearly shows the dent.
Even though it's blur af.
Your questions doesn't make any sense.
You clearly did not follow what I said to you.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

I took the photo upon receiving the watch on 5th November Monday.
Send the pictures to my client.
Nobody saw the dent because nobody knew there was a dent.

Only upon inspection on Wed 7th November. Under a loupe we saw the dent.
And took the picture under the loupe and sent to you.
So I went back to check the photos that I sent to my client and saw the dent as well

I said this many times. I don't understand why is it so hard for you to comprehend this. Go read again what I said.

I already close my case.
Just my luck dealing with someone like you.
I thought you were great but you're not.

Because your photo is pointing out clearly the 2 dents on Monday 5th and you keep saying you didn't see the dents until you met your client on 7th. And you dare telling me why it's so hard to not understand? because it's clearly visible on your photo pointing out to the dents. That's why i'm asking you this question. You"re trying to make me feel i'm hard to understand. My question is very legit. Read comment from this guy supporting you and blaming me saying it's impossible not to see these 2 dents, but you keep saying you didn't see them..it's full contradiction.

Just my luck too to deal with you too. Trying to help and you transferring our case on public place which i didn't appreciate. Now you seem pissed off because i see contradiction in your answers. You're funny. I'm caring about this case more than you do. You sent me an invoice to pay. So i just pay and that's it? these last questons were crucial to me. Your answers didn't make sense to me and not convincing at all. Something happened around you with or without your knowledge. Whatever happened, i won't argue more. You already sold the watch with a confortable profit. You're fine. Like you said, let the Mods decide.
You have references and i don't but i know i was honest.

[Bearxj86]

Gentlemen. Here are some thoughts since this has escalated quite a bit.

Alex21 - In the time I've been selling watches on the forums as a collector, I remember my own genuine shock when I met a reseller for the first time in person and he louped my watch and pointed out a dent. Bear in mind this was on a $50k Patek. A second time after shipping another reseller using a loupe pointed out a very small chip on a crystal. In general among watch collectors and resellers, doing a loupe inspection is routine before selling/buying since these type of imperfections are not easily visible to the naked or untrained eye.. I don't think it is fair to call something mint if you haven't done this inspection.

What I am trying to say is, on these forums, when we say something is mint, we mean there are no dings or chips since these types of imperfection require money to fix (hairline scratches can be fixed easily but not dings). I learned that through this the hard way. In both cases I had to pony up some cash - this is very normal as dings are expected to be disclosed and these have a material impact on a reseller's margins. Bear in mind that their margins can be just a few hundred bucks and $200 here eats into their margins. They are running a business and have mouths/overhead to cover.

1) Whether the defect was noticed or not, the seller should try to accommodate the buyer here. In this case since buyer lucked out on shipping cost (he did lose time)- sending it back doesn't make sense especially since he paid the shipping cost even if it was him time. I don't think buyer wants to get out of the deal but feels that the defect should have been called out. You said you sold him a mint watch, he didn't get a mint watch. The crown was in bad shape.

2) However, seller did offer a refund (did seller agree to pay for shipping back?). If seller offered a full refund and shipping back then I think that is normally reasonable. If the seller did not offer a refund of shipping (both ways), then I think seller is at fault. However, offering a complete refund when you know a resale deal is already in progress is a bit of an aggressive negotiation tactic - I know that offering a refund is always on the table but is it really in good faith to do so knowing that buyer already has a customer in progress?

3) Buyer should not have rushed but you know sometimes these things happen when there is a decent price. $7900 for a used sub date is a pretty decent price but not for one that requires $200 in repairs, I won't say anyone got a great price to be honest - seems fair to me.

4) Have not dealt with international shipping but returning a watch and risking customs duties and loss especially when the money was wired is a bit tough.

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Alex21

Because your photo is pointing out clearly the 2 dents on Monday 5th and you keep saying you didn't see the dents until you met your client on 7th. And you dare telling me why it's so hard to not understand? because it's clearly visible on your photo pointing out to the dents. That's why i'm asking you this question. You"re trying to make me feel i'm hard to understand. My question is very legit. Read comment from this guy supporting you and blaming me saying it's impossible not to see these 2 dents, but you keep saying you didn't see them..it's full contradiction.

Just my luck too to deal with you too. Trying to help and you transferring our case on public place which i didn't appreciate. Now you seem pissed off because i see contradiction in your answers. You're funny. I'm caring about this case more than you do. You sent me an invoice to pay. So i just pay and that's it? these last questons were crucial to me. Your answers didn't make sense to me and not convincing at all. Something happened around you with or without your knowledge. Whatever happened, i won't argue more. You already sold the watch with a confortable profit. You're fine. Like you said, let the Mods decide.
You have references and i don't but i know i was honest.

Because the dent wasn't visible and you cannot see what you're not looking for.
You took the photo as well and send me, why didn't you spot the dent?
Or did you spot it and purposely took a blur photo and try to mask it away?
I am sure you have the proper camera to take photos given your ad photos?
And none of the photos shows the crown or side cases photo.
I smell a cheat Case here man.
You knew the dent and you didn't point it out.
It doesn't matter if we are professional or not.
The dent is there. You own the watch for a year.
You should know better.
I guess it's pretty clear at this point.

Sending you an invoice shows that I did repair the watch.
Yes. Pay up and it's done as I have done the repair and the watch is back to its normal shape
Is that so hard for you to understand?

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Gentlemen. Here are some thoughts since this has escalated quite a bit.

Alex21 - In the time I've been selling watches on the forums as a collector, I remember my own genuine shock when I met a reseller for the first time in person and he louped my watch and pointed out a dent. Bear in mind this was on a $50k Patek. A second time after shipping another reseller using a loupe pointed out a very small chip on a crystal. In general among watch collectors and resellers, doing a loupe inspection is routine before selling/buying since these type of imperfections are not easily visible to the naked or untrained eye.. I don't think it is fair to call something mint if you haven't done this inspection.

What I am trying to say is, on these forums, when we say something is mint, we mean there are no dings or chips since these types of imperfection require money to fix (hairline scratches can be fixed easily but not dings). I learned that through this the hard way. In both cases I had to pony up some cash - this is very normal as dings are expected to be disclosed and these have a material impact on a reseller's margins. Bear in mind that their margins can be just a few hundred bucks and $200 here eats into their margins. They are running a business and have mouths/overhead to cover.

1) Whether the defect was noticed or not, the seller should try to accommodate the buyer here. In this case since buyer lucked out on shipping cost (he did lose time)- sending it back doesn't make sense especially since he paid the shipping cost even if it was him time. I don't think buyer wants to get out of the deal but feels that the defect should have been called out. You said you sold him a mint watch, he didn't get a mint watch. The crown was in bad shape.

2) However, seller did offer a refund (did seller agree to pay for shipping back?). If seller offered a full refund and shipping back then I think that is normally reasonable. If the seller did not offer a refund of shipping (both ways), then I think seller is at fault. However, offering a complete refund when you know a resale deal is already in progress is a bit of an aggressive negotiation tactic - I know that offering a refund is always on the table but is it really in good faith to do so knowing that buyer already has a customer in progress?

3) Buyer should not have rushed but you know sometimes these things happen when there is a decent price. $7900 for a used sub date is a pretty decent price but not for one that requires $200 in repairs, I won't say anyone got a great price to be honest - seems fair to me.

4) Have not dealt with international shipping but returning a watch and risking customs duties and loss especially when the money was wired is a bit tough.

Price is decent and his watch was stucked for sometime.
It was agreed with both parties that 7900 usd for a mint watch.
No dents dings or cuts based on the ad.

He did offered a refund but no shipping cost involved. I have to ship it back on my own cost so it doesn't make sense to me.

What if and I said if, for all we know, it maybe a scheme. Me sending back the watch and I don't get the funds back.

I wouldn't get back out on the deal. I just want the problem fixed. I even offered to share the repair cost.
But the only solution he gave was to send back the watch.

Whatever. I have done the Deal. I sold the watch. I lost out money on the margin.

My luck for dealing with a guy that doesn't work out a solution.

Thank you guys for giving me your opinions.

[77T]

Dealers mark-up their initial cost by a factor of 1.5 (more or less) to set their selling price to cover all their costs.

There are always small costs to make a watch “perfect”.

This whole thread with all the mud slinging is over a 2% unexpected cost.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Rrpdc]

Originally Posted by 77T

Dealers mark-up their initial cost by a factor of 1.5 (more or less) to set their selling price to cover all their costs.

There are always small costs to make a watch “perfect”.

This whole thread with all the mud slinging is over a 2% unexpected cost.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

+1

Now OP sold the watch lol. Thought he was going to just replace crown and have mint watch . That story is all over the place. Waste of time reading that thread.

[Mezz72]

i wanna chip in here as i was talking to alex21 couple of weeks back.
i wasn’t comfortable with a few things and that’s why i decided to walk away from the deal.

When i looked back at all the pictures he sent me, i realized one thing. Those not showing the crown are all pretty clear. But those showing the crown are all blurred. That’s all i want to say.

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Mezz72

i wanna chip in here as i was talking to alex21 couple of weeks back.
i wasn’t comfortable with a few things and that’s why i decided to walk away from the deal.

When i looked back at all the pictures he sent me, i realized one thing. Those not showing the crown are all pretty clear. But those showing the crown are all blurred. That’s all i want to say.

Ahh that's why. Lol

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by 77T

Dealers mark-up their initial cost by a factor of 1.5 (more or less) to set their selling price to cover all their costs.

There are always small costs to make a watch “perfect”.

This whole thread with all the mud slinging is over a 2% unexpected cost.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Lol. I am fine with the cost.
The fact I was sold a dented crown watch rather than a mint piece as advertised.
Just wanted to change my feedback that's all.
I hope it's not wrong to voice it out.

[gaoxing84]

Originally Posted by Rrpdc

+1

Now OP sold the watch lol. Thought he was going to just replace crown and have mint watch . That story is all over the place. Waste of time reading that thread.

You don't have to read it.
Why are you even here? Lol
Read above.
That's what the thread is for.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

Because the dent wasn't visible and you cannot see what you're not looking for.
You took the photo as well and send me, why didn't you spot the dent?
Or did you spot it and purposely took a blur photo and try to mask it away?QUOTE]
Me: I didn't spot that. My ad was good photos. The one blurred was the ones i took with my phone to send them right away to you via whatsapp as requested. I was standing up to take them quickly for you.

I am sure you have the proper camera to take photos given your ad photos?
Me : Yes i do, I took the ones posted in the ad. Those are high hresolution and i resized them to fit the forum. I couldnt send you high resolution pictures from this camera to whatsapp.


And none of the photos shows the crown or side cases photo.
I smell a cheat Case here man.
Me: Really? i got your money first and you got my watch the very same day i ot confirmation from my bank. A cheat you said? stop lying. I'm not impressed with your references and support. I'm honest.

You knew the dent and you didn't point it out.
It doesn't matter if we are professional or not.
Me: I didn't know. Stop lying. You said it it's not visible at all if it was there.

The dent is there. You own the watch for a year.
You should know better.
I guess it's pretty clear at this point.
Me: it's not clear at all. if there were i never seen them. The watch was in its box as you saw it with the webcam. I wear another one for months already.

Sending you an invoice shows that I did repair the watch.
Yes. Pay up and it's done as I have done the repair and the watch is back to its normal shape
Is that so hard for you to understand?
Me:Keep your tone for yourself. I had right to understand what happened while you brought me on forum. You were quick and threating me to comment on forum.
It's your way or i'm lying/cheating? that was rude from you.

I'm done.

[Jon Daniel]

Sorry about that. Sellers should inspect their watch properly before shipping.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Gentlemen. Here are some thoughts since this has escalated quite a bit.

Alex21 - In the time I've been selling watches on the forums as a collector, I remember my own genuine shock when I met a reseller for the first time in person and he louped my watch and pointed out a dent. Bear in mind this was on a $50k Patek. A second time after shipping another reseller using a loupe pointed out a very small chip on a crystal. In general among watch collectors and resellers, doing a loupe inspection is routine before selling/buying since these type of imperfections are not easily visible to the naked or untrained eye.. I don't think it is fair to call something mint if you haven't done this inspection.

What I am trying to say is, on these forums, when we say something is mint, we mean there are no dings or chips since these types of imperfection require money to fix (hairline scratches can be fixed easily but not dings). I learned that through this the hard way. In both cases I had to pony up some cash - this is very normal as dings are expected to be disclosed and these have a material impact on a reseller's margins. Bear in mind that their margins can be just a few hundred bucks and $200 here eats into their margins. They are running a business and have mouths/overhead to cover.

1) Whether the defect was noticed or not, the seller should try to accommodate the buyer here. In this case since buyer lucked out on shipping cost (he did lose time)- sending it back doesn't make sense especially since he paid the shipping cost even if it was him time. I don't think buyer wants to get out of the deal but feels that the defect should have been called out. You said you sold him a mint watch, he didn't get a mint watch. The crown was in bad shape.

2) However, seller did offer a refund (did seller agree to pay for shipping back?). If seller offered a full refund and shipping back then I think that is normally reasonable. If the seller did not offer a refund of shipping (both ways), then I think seller is at fault. However, offering a complete refund when you know a resale deal is already in progress is a bit of an aggressive negotiation tactic - I know that offering a refund is always on the table but is it really in good faith to do so knowing that buyer already has a customer in progress?

3) Buyer should not have rushed but you know sometimes these things happen when there is a decent price. $7900 for a used sub date is a pretty decent price but not for one that requires $200 in repairs, I won't say anyone got a great price to be honest - seems fair to me.

4) Have not dealt with international shipping but returning a watch and risking customs duties and loss especially when the money was wired is a bit tough.

Thanks for your comment. Very valuable info. Makes sense. I just wished you talked about the possibility that buyer (or else around him) could have damage accidentally the crown and blame me for that. Just a slim possibility but okay. I'm learning more from you than these guys from Singapore.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by Jon Daniel

Sorry about that. Sellers should inspect their watch properly before shipping.

Okay.

[Alex21]

Originally Posted by Mezz72

i wanna chip in here as i was talking to alex21 couple of weeks back.
i wasn’t comfortable with a few things and that’s why i decided to walk away from the deal.

When i looked back at all the pictures he sent me, i realized one thing. Those not showing the crown are all pretty clear. But those showing the crown are all blurred. That’s all i want to say.

I remember you. You from Singapore too. The deal was 8000USD and you were satisfied after photos inspection. We had a deal. You gave me your fedex label. Then you walked away for unknown reason...
The next day, a guy from Singapore 'Darryl' aka gaoxing84 contacted me to offer me 7800USD which we ended up accepting a 7950USD deal . I knew you both worked together but i decided to sell it anyway as long as the protocol of transaction was respected. I'm not surprised to hear from you now. You the guy i asked webcam so you can ID me and see the watch but refused visual inspection through webcam. I even offered you to watch me and product through my webcam without activating yours and you declined my offer. True or not?
Regarding the pictures. They were made with my iphone 4s so i could send them to you through whatsapp as well. Not my fault if my iphone 4s couldn't focus that tiny crown. I have no control on focus as your friend pretended it.
Never mind, I suspected long time ago you both worked together and i know one of you knows the truth regarding this crown. You, your friend, your client or else is behind this damage. I'm done.

[Brew]

Curiouser and curiouser . . . .

[STEELINOX]

The buyer claimed he gave the watch to his client after receiving the shipment.

So, is it not possible that "his client" may have damaged the crown and is not taking responsibility?

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

I took the photo upon receiving the watch on 5th November Monday.
Send the pictures to my client.
Nobody saw the dent because nobody knew there was a dent.

Only upon inspection on Wed 7th November. Under a loupe we saw the dent.
And took the picture under the loupe and sent to you.
So I went back to check the photos that I sent to my client and saw the dent as well

I said this many times. I don't understand why is it so hard for you to comprehend this. Go read again what I said.

I already close my case.
Just my luck dealing with someone like you.
I thought you were great but you're not.

Who is "We"? Did you open the case back and check the movement on that day? Is it you and your "client"?

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

I took the photo upon receiving the watch on 5th November Monday.
Send the pictures to my client.
Nobody saw the dent because nobody knew there was a dent.

Only upon inspection on Wed 7th November. Under a loupe we saw the dent.
And took the picture under the loupe and sent to you.
So I went back to check the photos that I sent to my client and saw the dent as well

I said this many times. I don't understand why is it so hard for you to comprehend this. Go read again what I said.

I already close my case.
Just my luck dealing with someone like you.
I thought you were great but you're not.

These dents ARE visible to the naked eye = Do not require a loupe to "see"