Is Rolex a enthusiast brand anymore?? My 3 decade ownership has me wondering.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s not a “back to the old days” thread. It’s a “lack of watch enthusiast content” day thread.
The forum has shifted the last 2 years. Been there done that long enough to recognize it. I am just now concerned enough to ask if others that have invested a significant amount of time and effort on this forum feel the same.

The posts from 10 years ago are about the same. People asking about a lot of the same questions. There are pages and pages on plastics that come on the watch. Seems familiar to me.

Has there been a shift in the last 2 years? Of course there has been a shift in the past 2 years. People that want to get in the hobby cannot get the watches. Rolex stores are empty for the average consumer, ADs are making demands about bundling, etc. Prices on the grey market are almost double when they used to be the cheaper than the AD.

The landscape has 100% changed from 2 years ago. Regardless of why it has shifted, scarcity, demand, whatever... It has in a major way. So yes a forum about Rolex would change when the entire Rolex landscape has changed.

[Brew]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Completely disagree

Product releases that are simply new versions, that closely follow rumors of shiny new colors or bracelets.

Rolex is in the luxury business not the watch business. They will ride this hype train and follow trends of versioning the same watch for as long as the masses believe they have to have the hottest product to show off on social media.

That's cool, disagreement yields something to discuss.

Rolex rarely makes big splash changes. Rather it's been incremental tweaks to a simple oyster case and movements that work. I guess perhaps I may have missed your point?

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s not a “back to the old days” thread. It’s a “lack of watch enthusiast content” day thread.
The forum has shifted the last 2 years. Been there done that long enough to recognize it. I am just now concerned enough to ask if others that have invested a significant amount of time and effort on this forum feel the same.

Right there with you! All of the people pushing back are likely staring at their 6 digit references as they sit safely in the box with a polishing cloth placed on top to avoid dust, dreaming about their next Instagram post.
The game has changed for many. The funny part is that many of these people are the ones who were placing their disposable income in Panerai 10 years ago, and now turn their nose up at that brand because they are on to the next flavor.
It’s not watch enthusiasm, it’s the gratification of the chase and the photo saying “look at me”.

[Icehockeyboy]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Rolex hasn't been an enthusiast brand in a long time.

The vast majority of Rolex owner's are not enthusiasts. Even this forum is dramatically different from what it was a few years ago.

These days I find myself looking at user join dates when I see nonsensical posts crying about one thing or another. Almost always members that have joined in the last year or two. Obviously I don't expect them to have the same experience that the long time members have, but there has been a noticeable trend in regards to their topics and posts.

I’ve not been a member on this forum for that long, but have been buying Rolex since the mid 80’s, so where does that put me?


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[Overwound]

As you say, it's like the 80's yuppie scene, only worse. At least then it was just some gaudy and excessive stuff. All you had to do is look away and go about your business. Now, you can't even get the normal pieces unless you have lots of extra play money. The people doing this priced the average person saving for something special right out of the market and to other brands.

I've owned watches from Rolex, IWC, JLC, Minerva, Nomos, Hamilton and various small independent brands. My main drive for watches is personal preference in style, durability, serviceablitiy, movements (I'm a little geeky, but not snobby, about movements) and if I can afford it. That's it. No thought of making money from them, no care about how many likes I can get on Instagram, or wherever, because that's not important to me.

I've seen suggestions for separate Rolex and Tudor forums but I think a dedicated Rolex & Tudor fan forum and Rolex & Tudor conspiracy and speculators forum may be more inline with reality. Joking a bit right there but wouldn't be sad if it happened.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

The posts from 10 years ago are about the same. People asking about a lot of the same questions. There are pages and pages on plastics that come on the watch. Seems familiar to me.

Exactly. I notice more or less the same proportion of new members trying to figure out how to maximize their investment and old members complaining how things have changed. Not criticizing you Mystro and my post is not aimed at you. I've been reading your posts since watchuseek, even got a second half link for my former Planet Ocean and it worked like a charm, that from one of your posts probably eight years ago so you have my respect.

What I'm saying is that this new scenario does not affect me one bit and it should not affect anyone that knows what they want IMO. If you know what you like you can get any watch with some patience/determination, but if you want to buy a Hulk for the third time to see if a green dial will sing to you now and you swear it will be a keeper this time, or you get bored with a black dial Daytona and you want one in white now you're in more trouble than before, but it's no big deal IMHO. If you can't change watches like you change clothes anymore just don't buy them and move on with your life. Or just wait because things will change like they always do.

Too much whining going on frankly.

[BobDyl]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Since we are on a watch forum and I have been a WIS for 3 decades (long before we even had the term WIS), I am having increased concerns on where our hobby is headed with the Rolex brand.

I love the renewed enthusiast that are coming back to Rolex and the young guys pumped to get their first Rolex model. My real concern is motives and attitude about the brand. Assigning value to a watch by how hard it is to get or how high it’s current inflated price is fetching is troubling and extremely superficial from a WIS perspective.

It seems like many are flaunting Rolex now as a status watch even more than the yuppies of the 80’s but now it’s about how difficult a particular model is to get rather than how flashy it was in the 80’s. Horological discussion and technical talk have almost been totally eclipsed by the act of purchasing a Rolex.

To think that we talk less about the actual watch and focus all the attention on obtaining the watch is bizarre and almost more twisted than the motives of the 80’s buyer. Is Rolex losing its core enthusiast? Other brands like AP, VC, Panerai, IWC etc..don’t nearly have the resale value of Rolex but they are at least discussed by their core enthusiast about the watch and not as a commodity.

Some of us remember a simpler motive of buying a watch by the way it looks and fit our style. Maybe we just thought it was a cool movement in a great case and had to have it. Stickers, resale, and user anxiety never entered our minds. Will the new Rolex buyer ever enjoy these simple pleasures of being a WIS?

Agree 100%. What a mess watch collecting has become - massive changes in the last 10-15 years. Culprits: IG and general Internet hype. And the forum has become about as interesting as watching a stock chart (to be fair, for some, this is very interesting). On the bright side, many complicated pieces are currently undervalued imho.

[Centron]

Rolex forum community have become a bunch of whiners. Pissed that their band has become “mainstream” therefore they themselves don’t feel exclusive.
Get over it and enjoy the watches.

[Zakalwe]

If only there was a catchy one word phrase that could be used to describe the amount of consternation something as ultimately frivolous and unimportant as watches seems to be causing some people.

Maybe somebody cleverer than me could come up with a portmanteau of Watch Angst?

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Centron

Rolex forum community have become a bunch of whiners. Pissed that their band has become “mainstream” therefore they themselves don’t feel exclusive.
Get over it and enjoy the watches.

Thank you for informing us that we are whiners

Welcome to the forum

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by Centron

Rolex forum community have become a bunch of whiners. Pissed that their band has become “mainstream” therefore they themselves don’t feel exclusive.
Get over it and enjoy the watches.

You’ve been here a month. How do you know what the forum has become?

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s not a “back to the old days” thread. It’s a “lack of watch enthusiast content” day thread.
The forum has shifted the last 2 years. Been there done that long enough to recognize it. I am just now concerned enough to ask if others that have invested a significant amount of time and effort on this forum feel the same.

Totally agree with you, Mystro.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by jsausley

Who cares?

I see you have a 911 in your avatar. Does it bother you when a rich doctor who can't even change his oil buys a 911?

Asked by the member who joined last June....

If you want to know who cares: it’s those of us who have been on the forum for several years, and actively participate.

[Waxtactic]

So, I cant disagree entirely, however there are those of us who love how the watches are made and their heritage. Are you going to get the show offs? Yes, but show me something now a days that doesnt have their fair share of that. The internet has sadly given a microphone to those who wish to flaunt nothing but themselves.

Still, rest assured there are people out there who enjoy the brand for the movements, their history and use them for what they're designed for (instead of showing them off).

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Right there with you! All of the people pushing back are likely staring at their 6 digit references as they sit safely in the box with a polishing cloth placed on top to avoid dust, dreaming about their next Instagram post.
The game has changed for many. The funny part is that many of these people are the ones who were placing their disposable income in Panerai 10 years ago, and now turn their nose up at that brand because they are on to the next flavor.
It’s not watch enthusiasm, it’s the gratification of the chase and the photo saying “look at me”.

Agree with you both. Rolex has always been a safe haven for capital but is out of hand currently. It’s sad that all the “can I do xyz with my brand new gmt” threads. These watches are designed to be worn be used and build memories. I feel like a broken record but this will pass just as panerai as you stated.

It’s not bad for the brand but it has influenced the content on TRF negatively & access. It does suck, it’s frustrating that you lose that positive stimulation and engaging threads but so be it. Rolex is in a great place it’s not all dark clouds.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Waxtactic

Still, rest assured there are people out there who enjoy the brand for the movements, their history and use them for what they're designed for (instead of showing them off).

And we are spending less time here for sure.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Because the doctor doesn’t show up at PCA events or on the PCA forum and ask if it’s safe to remove the plastic on the floor mats.

Spot on. That looks like a 964 in your avatar. I drive a 997 2S that I’m having a very hard time letting go of. True classic.

[playford]

Rolex has always been the brand that non WIS folks recognised. From 80's TTDJ's to todays Daytona flexing.

You have always had the WIS side of the market, particularly for vintage pieces.

I personally find the obsession over sticker removal, price rises and AD relationships just a bit dull. It's a weird lust to have the hot pieces without any seeming joy in the details of the piece.

[Alex_TA]

Hi Mystro haven't you been on Omega forum for a while?

Maybe it's time to get back

[tkc324]

I don't think Rolex has a been an enthusiast brand for a very long time. To each their own. My experience when i talk with Rolex owners in the last 10 years has resulted in mostly people that don't know much beyond the little crown symbol. Just recently I noticed an older turn o graph on this gentleman. I commented oh thats a nice TOG in which he responded this is a Rolex...

[thedips]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

You’ve been here a month. How do you know what the forum has become?

Man I feel old

[Sublovin]

If staring at these little idols and thinking about values excites people, I guess that’s their choice. I like watches for the hobby and fun, and leave my investing to the equities market and real estate.

[TimeToWatch]

I got my first Rolex in 2013. Up until 2016, this forum and the market in a broader context seemed to buy and appreciate watches for their design and legacy. Now every single post is how to outperform the stock market with a watch or which watch is the next Nautilus. Most of these posts are from new members who’s interest in Rolex is questionable at best. It’s all about speculation and money chasing now. The passion is gone.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by tkc324

I don't think Rolex has a been an enthusiast brand for a very long time. To each their own. My experience when i talk with Rolex owners in the last 10 years has resulted in mostly people that don't know much beyond the little crown symbol. Just recently I noticed an older turn o graph on this gentleman. I commented oh thats a nice TOG in which he responded this is a Rolex...

That's the saddest thing I've read all morning.

For what it's worth, I share a lot of the frustrations as OP does, and I'm not really the seasoned watch veteran like many of you are. I used to read stories on here years ago by users who got their first Rolexes, and they would detail a really interesting narrative about what they were doing at the time, what country they were in, how people reacted to their GMT over the years, how that Submariner came to their assistance in some crazy situation, etc etc.

Today, the most interesting stories are "So I was talking to an AD and they turned me away but as I walked out the door they said 'wait a min' and the next thing I know etc etc." Which, hey, I imagine must be euphoric for the new Sea Dweller owner- but making an unlikely retail transaction isn't exactly as captivating as the other stories TRF used to feature.

So what do we do about it?

OP isn't the first to complain and he won't be the last. Though I don't own a Rolex 6234, I'd be interested in hearing people debate the changes between that and subsequent Daytonas. People could even liven things up with opinions on how certain Rolex model designs have worsened over the years- I'm sure there would be a ton of disagreement on that topic alone.

[Onikage]

Hear you and find this new atmosphere a humorous curiosity myself. I can assure you that we WISes are still here though. Watching the madness unfold. From a quiet corner.

[jsausley]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

Asked by the member who joined last June....

If you want to know who cares: it’s those of us who have been on the forum for several years, and actively participate.

Nice job being judgmental. I was 29 years old and joined right after I could afford and buy my first Rolex, an Explorer, after being a watch fanatic since I was about 12 years old (bought my first automatic Valjoux 7750 TAG Heuer chronograph at 17 years old).

Are you complaining about more users coming to TRF? Isn't that a very elitist attitude? Do you want your boys club to be smaller and your favorite brand of watches to be less popular, is that what it is?

Any Rolex owner who takes the time out of his day to come to a Rolex forum, register and post deserves to be here. If you're complaint is about people who are only getting into this hobby because the watches are hyped up, those aren't the same people sitting on a Rolex forum.

[RtTime]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Since we are on a watch forum and I have been a WIS for 3 decades (long before we even had the term WIS), I am having increased concerns on where our hobby is headed with the Rolex brand.

I love the renewed enthusiast that are coming back to Rolex and the young guys pumped to get their first Rolex model. My real concern is motives and attitude about the brand. Assigning value to a watch by how hard it is to get or how high it’s current inflated price is fetching is troubling and extremely superficial from a WIS perspective.

It seems like many are flaunting Rolex now as a status watch even more than the yuppies of the 80’s but now it’s about how difficult a particular model is to get rather than how flashy it was in the 80’s. Horological discussion and technical talk have almost been totally eclipsed by the act of purchasing a Rolex.

To think that we talk less about the actual watch and focus all the attention on obtaining the watch is bizarre and almost more twisted than the motives of the 80’s buyer. Is Rolex losing its core enthusiast? Other brands like AP, VC, Panerai, IWC etc..don’t nearly have the resale value of Rolex but they are at least discussed by their core enthusiast about the watch and not as a commodity.

Some of us remember a simpler motive of buying a watch by the way it looks and fit our style. Maybe we just thought it was a cool movement in a great case and had to have it. Stickers, resale, and user anxiety never entered our minds. Will the new Rolex buyer ever enjoy these simple pleasures of being a WIS?

Mystro, you make a good point. Decades ago with the cost of tuition and the expense of living, my discretionary income went to cars - never treated myself to any expensive time pieces. I liked self-winding watches (now commonly referred to as automatic watches) and I had and still have a nice Waltham Watch Company Pocket Watch. With reluctance I turned to quartz watches because of their accuracy. I had several Victorinox watches - the first was a gift for an achievement and I confess that I did enjoy having them. However, I realize it is not selfish to treat myself nice and it was indeed time to begin spending my heirs' inheritance. Although I was familiar with Rolex and some of it's history for the Submariner and the Explorer, in the past the brand just seemed too ostentatious for me - I viewed Omega more favorably. Nevertheless, when I decided to get a time piece surprisingly it was the Rolex Explorer's style that I fell for. - it even beat out Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Barakuda which I also do like. Subsequently I added on the Submariner because of it's simple yet iconic appearance - I'm retired so a date complication means little to me. IMHO the bottom line is: "What has the greatest appeal to me!" And that is my story. I really fail to understand those frequent posts e.g., help me decide, is this good... etc! If one really is unaware of what they really want, why would a decision made by some one they don't even know carry if any weight whatsoever? Moreover, with exceptional and very rare cases watches are not investments - few will make or brake you! If the watch has little or modest appeal to you don't get it. If you really like the way it looks on your wrist then take it home!

[derekhayden]

IMO this trend is opening up peoples eyes to the world of watches that may have never had an interest in them. If they get here because of hype, speculation, or flexing then so be it. Maybe their interests will grow into something more along our lines.

My interest in watches started with Rolex and trust me it wasn't because they are great watches. It's because they were the best at marketing. Everyone wanted one to show that they had "made it"; and I am not a millennial by far.

At some point we have to accept that without this the future of mechanical watches will die. Watches are not needed anymore and haven't been for years. Rolex hasn't been relevant besides stature and marketing for decades. It's not like they are breaking down doors with horological innovation.

I get how in our closed box of WIS forums this can be upsetting but in reality this is what the watch brands need to stay alive.

[Cru Jones]

While it’s very true that the latest thread topic fad has been “how to obtain”, I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration to say things used to be much more “watch”-focused.

I think TRF has always been a mixed bag of content, some informative, some... less so. Maybe the mix is a little on the latter side these days, but’s it’s always been such a mix.

I don’t care either way. It’s an Internet forum. I give and take what I want, and I still enjoy it enough to keep coming back for more. :-)

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by jsausley

Nice job being judgmental.

Remarked by the poster who took issue with Mystro’s thread in the first place, vis-a-vis his 911 avatar.