Why buy a Seiko or a grand Seiko?

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by Jostack

I don’t know if there is a way to really qualify some of your metrics. Much of Rolex’ reputation is well earned and deserved. Much of it also comes from possibly the best marketing machine ever. That machine causes the masses to perpetuate their well earned reputation.

GS’s army of fanboys is much much smaller than Rolex. The composition of the army is different as well. GS fans more often are genuine watch fans. Rolex has a vast number of customers who purchase on name only and don’t really care what is inside the watch.

There are no reliability/durability tests that can be used to objectively compare the brands. This leaves it mostly to opinion.


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Agree on many of your points. The one thing i would say is this: There are so many stories of Rolexes going through wars, mud, accidents intact. We know some of their movements are military grade. We know the Daytona movement was up against the Moonwatch for the NASA space program. We know they don't survive plane crashes (thanks to 9/11) very well and they don't survives house fires completely intact. Yes, no one has really done controlled tests of one versus the other, but with millions of rolexes out there, I think the data suggests that Rolexes are very durable as opposed to them being more durable than GS. It is hard to prove a negative here since GS is as yet "untested" in world of use cases and public opinion.

Moreso, most GS are not "dive watches" so its hard to imagine how much damage my 211 snowflake will take versus a James Cameron Deepsea. I can tell you that my money is on the deepsea :)

Maybe one day some smart ass would put them on robots and smash them against each other in a battle royale duel to the death.

Opinions based on experience count but to a less extent than a scientific study don't they? Just saying.

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by MSchu

Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.

That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Agree on many of your points. The one thing i would say is this: There are so many stories of Rolexes going through wars, mud, accidents. We know some of their movements are military grade. We know they don't survive plane crashes (thanks to 9/11) very well and they don't survives house fires completely intact. Yes, no one has really done controlled tests of one versus the other, but with millions of rolexes out there, I think the data suggests that Rolexes are very durable as opposed to them being more durable than GS.

Moreso, most GS are not "dive watches" so its hard to imagine how much damage my 211 snowflake will take versus a James Cameron Deepsea. I can tell you that my money is on the deepsea :)

Opinions based on experience count don't they?

Absolutely, experience counts. The sheer volume of Rolex experience reinforces their reputation. I wholeheartedly agree.

That doesn’t mean a GS can’t take a good beating. There just aren’t the numbers like Rolex to justify that kind of reputation. I’m not saying GS is equal to the task, only that there is a lack of evidence. Likewise I don’t see evidence to the contrary. I’m fine with stamping that one with a big fat question mark.


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[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by Jostack

Absolutely, experience counts. The sheer volume of Rolex experience reinforces their reputation. I wholeheartedly agree.

That doesn’t mean a GS can’t take a good beating. There just aren’t the numbers like Rolex to justify that kind of reputation. I’m not saying GS is equal to the task, only that there is a lack of evidence. Likewise I don’t see evidence to the contrary. I’m fine with stamping that one with a big fat question mark.


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Fair enough. Here’s my newest acquisition. Unfortunately or fortunately it’s not going anywhere near mud, war, fires or plane crashes (knock on wood) anytime soon so jury still out for me :)




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[Jostack]

And my latest in the sun.



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[cmhorner17]

A Grand Seiko is something you have to see in person. Pictures will never do the build quality justice. They're amazing even if pictures online make them appear a bit plain. Other cool thing IMO is you won't see yourself coming and going. Try a few on, see if any of them spin your propeller. And I agree with availability too - no games with a GS. They're not common but they're not impossible to find once you've settled on one.

[WS9D]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Maybe one day some smart ass would put them on robots and smash them against each other in a battle royale duel to the death.

Well, when I win the lotto, challenge accepted lol

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist

Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

[MSchu]

I'd own that if it wasn't for the yellow... that is the top of the line quartz regulated movement there...

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by MSchu

I'd own that if it wasn't for the yellow... that is the top of the line quartz regulated movement there...

They come in 2 other colors

[Hosum]

Originally Posted by pickettt

They come in 2 other colors

the others don't have the +/-5 second star :(

[Jostack]

Originally Posted by Hosum

the others don't have the +/-5 second star :(

Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.

[MSchu]

Accuracy... for me
All black dial and fire blued gmt hand is in order

[Hosum]

Originally Posted by Jostack

Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.

I'd say the accuracy that it represents. If they didn't have the star, but had a different caliber movement called 9F86S instead of 9F86, I'd still prefer the extra incremental inching toward perfection from 10 seconds a year to 5 seconds a year.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Jostack

Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.

Underpromise and overdeliver...that's what they do.

[chloebear]

Originally Posted by MSchu

Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.

Two of my favorite watches right there. I am wearing my Air-King as I type and the GS SBGM231 is high on list of a dressy watch. Great pictures. Thanks for sharing.

[britabroad]

Originally Posted by Jostack

Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

I absolutely love this model.

My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS

[Erson]

Problem is, even AUDEMARS PIGUET swiss made, IWC perpetual calendar swiss made, the movement easily stop.

how many times the price compare to seiko and its still working?

OF COURSE SEIKO IS WORTH FOR MONEY.

It cost me $3000+ dollars to repair the AP DIVER CARBON. It makes me sick. Its not my fault. The AP said, yeah there is a movement problem.

I believe made in japan is good, because japan always make trustable product. and for me the quality of GS even better than rolex. But rolex still win because the design is better, more popular and the brand is swiss made.

Your choice of GS is cool

[daveo5]

Well I try to balance my collection based on what I like. It includes PP, AP, Rolex, Omega’s, Seiko, JLC, Breitling, IWC, Piaget, Times.


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[efthi]

That’s an excellent thread! I am on the edge of getting the SBGA211 at a very good discount since the boutique just opened here.. I have 4 Rolex and an Omega which I like them all too much (Kermit, Batman, Hulk, DaytonaC and a PO Limited edition Liquidmetal).. it’s a different watch from what I am used so far but I like the history of the maker and the watch itself, have to decide by end of the month if I take the call or not!





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[Jostack]

Originally Posted by britabroad

I absolutely love this model.



My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS

Where did you here this?

As far as I understand, their policy on parts are not much different than other luxury watch companies.

I’m pretty sure there are plenty of vintage grand seiko’s out there ticking away, and have been serviced somehow. You may even see them here on the forums.

A lot of people say a lot of things.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by efthi

…
I am on the edge of getting the SBGA211 at a very good discount since the boutique just opened here.. I have 4 Rolex and an Omega which I like them all too much ...

Get on board – it’ll soon become another one you “like too much”.
Variety is the spice of life, after all!

[1William]

Great looking watch. You will not be disappointed in GS.

[efthi]

Got it already last Thursday and today itself went back and got this amazing diver as well! Very happy with Seiko and GS of course!



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[Kliminator]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.



Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions



1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?

2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?

3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?

4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?



I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me

Thank you!

Did you end up picking up a GS or still exploring? I've been toying around with the idea as well.

I've been interested in peacock in the past but it seemed to be pretty thick at 14.4mm.

The news seasons collection is interesting.

[Hosum]

Originally Posted by efthi

Got it already last Thursday and today itself went back and got this amazing diver as well! Very happy with Seiko and GS of course!

Congrats on your back-to-back acquisitions! After I got my first GS, the GS bug bit me hard and I couldn't stop getting more...

[efthi]

Originally Posted by Hosum

Congrats on your back-to-back acquisitions! After I got my first GS, the GS bug bit me hard and I couldn't stop getting more...

Thank you very much


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[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by efthi

Thank you very much


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I actually caught the seiko mania!!
Loving my LE sbga387, the best GS I could’ve bought and really liking my new seikos
The value in seiko is unbelievable for the quality you get!!

[efthi]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

I actually caught the seiko mania!!

Loving my LE sbga387, the best GS I could’ve bought and really liking my new seikos

The value in seiko is unbelievable for the quality you get!!

Beautiful collection, love them all
Need to get me a Presage as well.. for now jaw dropping GS



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[asiparks]

wow !! amazing detail shots !