waitlist 8 years and most lists even closed... and it's NOT an overhyped Patek, Rolex

[Skyrider01]

Originally Posted by dwight

I'm planning to visit the NYC boutique in February but now I'm just thinking I might pay the premium for the CB. Any significant downside to purchasing on the secondary market?

Downside is you'll be paying about $40K for a watch that costs $25K.

[dwight]

Yeah, I don't see a lot of downside myself other than not getting the discounted price of buying from the AD. I see $25k as more of a teaser price or a discount that some are lucky to get. I only seldom buy a watch so I'll never be at the top of one of these lists, but I do plan to buy an FP Journe in the near future. So for me, this might be my only option. I'm also considering a couple of others that I like equally which I suspect might be easier to buy at the boutique as a new customer.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by dwight

I'm planning to visit the NYC boutique in February but now I'm just thinking I might pay the premium for the CB. Any significant downside to purchasing on the secondary market?

It’s kind of your only choice since lists are closed. Don’t even bother asking for a CB at the NYC boutique . Other than price, no downside for buying on secondary market as long as you buy good condition from a trusted seller.


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[dwight]

Given that I might consider spending $36k USD on the CB, what other FPJ watches might I consider? I'm set on getting an FPJ watch and I'd prefer a 38mm or 36mm which really narrows it down.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by dwight

Given that I might consider spending $36k USD on the CB, what other FPJ watches might I consider? I'm set on getting an FPJ watch and I'd prefer a 38mm or 36mm which really narrows it down.

You can buy a chronometre souverain in the secondary market for close to $25K. Platinum case and power reserve indicator. Havana dial will cost more but probably not more than a CB.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by cascavel

You can buy a chronometre souverain in the secondary market for close to $25K. Platinum case and power reserve indicator. Havana dial will cost more but probably not more than a CB.

indeed, if you want to pay up to 40K you have a lot of great Journe CS. but if you really want the tantalum with that special dial there is no other option.
I would at least try at some FP Journe boutiques to order one.
Have you held one in your hands already ? Maybe you'll like others even more. But if at the end the blue is still the one you want, don't buy something else cause you might regret it.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by dwight

Given that I might consider spending $36k USD on the CB, what other FPJ watches might I consider? I'm set on getting an FPJ watch and I'd prefer a 38mm or 36mm which really narrows it down.

For smaller than 40mm you are pretty much limited to the CB (39mm) and octa divine (36mm) for watches currently in production . For 38mm (the sweet spot for journe IMO), you have to go pre-owned and it will take some hunting.


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[offrdmania]

A couple of tantalum bleu in our classifieds at $34-36K right now

[dwight]

Originally Posted by unknown

indeed, if you want to pay up to 40K you have a lot of great Journe CS. but if you really want the tantalum with that special dial there is no other option.
I would at least try at some FP Journe boutiques to order one.
Have you held one in your hands already ? Maybe you'll like others even more. But if at the end the blue is still the one you want, don't buy something else cause you might regret it.

I have not tried the watches in person. I'm staying at the Lowell in February and the NYC boutique is around the corner. I'm going to see and handle some watches then. I will also take the opportunity to ask what the prices are on the divine and other models. I'm not opposed to spending a little more or waiting a reasonable time to buy from the boutique, but I am also open to getting my FPJ on the secondary market. Thanks for the input.

[dwight]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

A couple of tantalum bleu in our classifieds at $34-36K right now

I saw these 2 CB offerings and given they are reputable sellers and great prices, this direct transaction method would be preferred for me. Obviously, I'd love to buy from the boutique at a discount, but it seems unlikely. Anyway, still a few things to figure out before I make my move. I appreciate everyone's input.

[gilluminati204]

The FPJ CB is the longest standing watch in my collection. It is the one that feels special amongst other similar, and even higher priced watches.

It is a home run in my books as it checks all the boxes. The fact that it is only 10 years old, from an independent non mainstream brand, and already reached this level of collecibility is remarkable.

The tantalum case allows you to wear it like a sports watch and not worry about scratches. The dial is beyond hypnotising with its 100+ shades of bleu. The RG movement is a piece of art in its own right.



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[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by dwight

I have not tried the watches in person. I'm staying at the Lowell in February and the NYC boutique is around the corner. I'm going to see and handle some watches then. I will also take the opportunity to ask what the prices are on the divine and other models. I'm not opposed to spending a little more or waiting a reasonable time to buy from the boutique, but I am also open to getting my FPJ on the secondary market. Thanks for the input.

I think getting the watches in the hand is the first step. Looks like you can do that in Feb. The folks at the Boutique are reasonably friendly, but you need to ask for what you want to see as I don’t find them to be very forthcoming or proactive if one just walks in and wants to understand the brand by exploring the current offerings.

As per others if you are looking for small then your choices are extremely limited when buying new. Further, a lot of 38mm Journes are now attracting a premium in the used the market so that’s working against you a little.

Keep in mind that there is a new case design at 40mm which has a thinner bezel. The watches now appear smaller, as the old “fat bezel” is gone. It’s worth trying on these to see. And dial colour will alter perceived size on the wrist too, black is always a good bet for this so be sure to ask for those watches in 40mm with black dials (these will be limited).

[dwight]

Thank you both for the thoughtful replies.

The CB is a strong contender and I know that many share the feeling that this watch is very special and a stand out.

Thanks Jay for the info about the boutique as well. I'll just keep studying the models so that at least I can be knowledgeable of the collections. I assumed that the experience would be as you described. Thanks for the info on the new case size as well. I've still got a lot to learn but am enjoying the quest.

These seem like my top 3 options:
1) CB 39mm from the secondary market
2) Divine 36mm from Boutique, unknown pricing
3) Divine 36mm from the secondary market, $30k

I also like the CS and CS Havana but at 40mm, I really think I'd prefer the 36mm divine or the 39mm CB. 38mm options are indeed limited in the secondary market.

Will the boutique even have a CB and a 36mm divine in hand for me to try on?

[dwight]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'd be willing to try the thinner 40mm, and am interested to view the watches in person. I'll keep an eye out for any 38mm in the secondary market.

I like both of these watches and they are smaller and within my budget.
1) CB 39mm from the secondary market
2) Divine 36mm from the boutique or secondary

Will the boutique even have both the CB and the Divine 36mm in stock for me to try on?

[imrsion]

The boutique is unlikely to have a CB to try on unless they have one that’s already been sold. I was able to see the dial at the watchmaker’s bench in the Miami boutique outside of the case. The color and reflection is unreal.

You should still try on some of the 40mm watches. The CS is very comfortable to wear on smaller wrists. Even the vertical tourbillon was somewhat “wearable”.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by dwight

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'd be willing to try the thinner 40mm, and am interested to view the watches in person. I'll keep an eye out for any 38mm in the secondary market.

I like both of these watches and they are smaller and within my budget.
1) CB 39mm from the secondary market
2) Divine 36mm from the boutique or secondary

Will the boutique even have both the CB and the Divine 36mm in stock for me to try on?

The boutique will not have a CB unless of course they just received delivery of one for a customer, but not sure they would let you try it on since it would take you 10 years to get one anyway.

I have never seen a divine 36mm in a boutique but never specifically asked. Prob worth while asking ahead of time .

Alternatively, you can schedule an appt at Watchbox and try on a ton of journes and other watches. Loads of fun!


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[Josh1000]

Had it in 2015 and sold it in under a year. Apart from the movement I felt the watch is all hype. Plastic looking hands, printed numerals and a garden uncomfortable strap all hidden behind scarcity!!! Then I discovered the CS...wow...what an under valued watch

[dwight]

I'm sure there are plenty of end users on the CB waiting list but I'm sure there are plenty of speculators and middle men on it as well. There are quite a few CB's out there for sale so we will have to wait and see if they are absorbed or if more and more find their way to the secondary market. If the latter happens (or happens in combination with another price increase), then that list will dwindle quickly as the spread tightens.

From my limited perspective, I'd say watchbox is trying to create a market in FPJ and has accumulated some inventory. Unfortunately, I don't have much reason to go to Philadelphia or I know I'd really enjoy getting to see their inventory. They probably have several more CB's and other FPJ that aren't on the site. They'll likely provide some support in the form of reduced pieces for sale or purchasing some excess offerings as the invisible hand is at work.

That's just my 2 cents on the FPJ landscape from my limited perspective. I think I'll still visit the NYC boutique since I'll be basically across the street from it.

[Bloomberg]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

Had it in 2015 and sold it in under a year. Apart from the movement I felt the watch is all hype. Plastic looking hands, printed numerals and a garden uncomfortable strap all hidden behind scarcity!!! Then I discovered the CS...wow...what an under valued watch

Totally agree with you. I can’t understand why there is that difference of demande between the CS and the CB.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Bloomberg

Totally agree with you. I can’t understand why there is that difference of demande between the CS and the CB.

It’s not that hard to understand - case size, case material, unique dial. I get that it’s not everyone’s taste but no watch appeals to 100% of people.


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[_speedmaster_]

The fact that the CB is 39mm can’t go overlooked, especially for people such as myself who find the 40mm Journes to wear slightly too large.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by JR16

It’s not that hard to understand - case size, case material, unique dial. I get that it’s not everyone’s taste but no watch appeals to 100% of people.


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While this is true, it's interesting that the CB hasn't had the halo effect on other FPJ pieces in the way that the 5711 and 15202 have had on the entire Nautilus and Royal Oak lines. I remember not so long ago when the 5712 was undesirable because of the asymmetric layout of the dial, and the 15400 could be had for under retail in all dial variants. Now every single Nautilus and Royal Oak variant sells for retail or above (waaaaaaay above in many cases). I can't think of an FPJ that sells above retail on the secondary other than the CB. In my estimation this is purely due to the hype factor differential between the brands.

[gilluminati204]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

While this is true, it's interesting that the CB hasn't had the halo effect on other FPJ pieces in the way that the 5711 and 15202 have had on the entire Nautilus and Royal Oak lines. I remember not so long ago when the 5712 was undesirable because of the asymmetric layout of the dial, and the 15400 could be had for under retail in all dial variants. Now every single Nautilus and Royal Oak variant sells for retail or above (waaaaaaay above in many cases). I can't think of an FPJ that sells above retail on the secondary other than the CB. In my estimation this is purely due to the hype factor differential between the brands.

So in your estimation the FPJ is due to hype but the SS Patek /AP are not? Interesting...

Maybe wait 40 years to compare apples to apples. The CB is an infant compared two the iconic GG designs. The fact it's even mentioned in the same breathe says alot.

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[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by gilluminati204

So in your estimation the FPJ is due to hype but the SS Patek /AP are not? Interesting...

Maybe wait 40 years to compare apples to apples. The CB is an infant compared two the iconic GG designs. The fact it's even mentioned in the same breathe says alot.

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Not at all, I actually think that the FPJ pieces are an excellent value proposition, CB being the exception. I think that the Nautilus and Royal Oak derivatives as well as the CB have prices propped up by hype, and will be more likely to deflate in value relative to buying a CS as current market price.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

Had it in 2015 and sold it in under a year. Apart from the movement I felt the watch is all hype. Plastic looking hands, printed numerals and a garden uncomfortable strap all hidden behind scarcity!!! Then I discovered the CS...wow...what an under valued watch

You know the dial in the CB is BY far the most difficult to make dia journe offers ? Much more difficult and expensive to make than any CS, chrono, tourbillon or whatsoever

It is mirror polished by hand and than got 15 or so different layers of blue lacquer. Every time something can go wrong and only 30% or so is good enough to use in a watch.
A very difficult to make dial ...so the think about 'printed numerals' is quite exaggerated

Same can be said about the case. Tantalum is MUCH more difficult to polish than the gold CS, even more difficult than the platinum CS

So that hype or scarcity has it's reason if you understand all this. The CB is the cheapest looking at the list price but it could be the most expensive to make.
The margin on the CB is low, very low compared to the others and this is the reason why FPJ decided to lower the production with 50%.

[gilluminati204]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Not at all, I actually think that the FPJ pieces are an excellent value proposition, CB being the exception. I think that the Nautilus and Royal Oak derivatives as well as the CB have prices propped up by hype, and will be more likely to deflate in value relative to buying a CS as current market price.

I guess that depends on your definition of value proposition. I think even at current secondary market values, it's still a deal, especially when compared to what else you get for $35k USD.

There is a reason the CS, although a fantastic watch, doesn't have the same demand.





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[Raemondo]

Originally Posted by unknown

One brand I like t lot but never bought before is FP Journe. I think we'll all agree they're absolute top together withe a few other brands out there.

The one I like the most is probably the Chronomètre Souverain. The Tourbillon is a piece of art but that's too expensive and somehow I like the simplicity and perfection of the CS (Chronomètre Souverain)

About 10 years ago I thought about buying the red gold or the platinum piece. But there was also the blue one, the Chronometre blue. A rare tantalum case and probably the most mesmerizing dial I ever saw.
The Tantalum CB ( Chronometre Blue) is definitely the one with the most sporty look.

Concerning the brand ... I think it's safe to say that FP Journe is a real genius and it's probably one of the most important watchmakers in the world. Maybe the most important still alive but that's a personal preference.

Anyway, I was waiting for a CB but contacted a few boutiques to ask if it was possible to order one cause I have some friends that want one too.
got 2 kind of answers

1/ sorry sir but our list is closed. many clients are waiting and we're put to 7 years by now .. so we don't take new requests

2/ Know that you'll have to wait over 8 years and to be honest, we prefer to sell to local buyers and well known clients.

And it might even get worse cause FP Journe decided to lower production, to be more correct .. cut production in !
Reason, the profit margin is too low on this piece. I't VERY difficult to work with tantalum and the dial seems to be very expensive too. The 18K gold movement with superb finishing isn't of course for free neither :-)
And knowing that the total you production FP Journe per YEAR is lower than what Patek makes in 1 week ... ( 900 pieces versus 65.000 pieces)

I think I can say this watch is a bargain at list (even if it does cost quite a lot)


Mine arrived last saturday ...
And I absolute love it !

Amazing pictures! Were these from a camera or loupe system? If the latter, curious if this was 10x or 6x?

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Raemondo

Amazing pictures! Were these from a camera or loupe system? If the latter, curious if this was 10x or 6x?

canon 760D and a canon macro lens

[rockdrock]

Originally Posted by Raemondo

Amazing pictures! Were these from a camera or loupe system? If the latter, curious if this was 10x or 6x?

Agree. Great pics. Nicely done. Especially like the engraving of Chrono Bleu.


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[Sunburstcyclops]

Acquaintance of mine said he managed to get one at an AD.
Any thoughts?