Talking Stocks 2.0

[PackPride]

Want to cry thinking of all the watches I could have bought with the money burned over the last few days.

Oh well- 23 years to retirement so plenty of time.

[Cazador60]

All I know is that I have lost my backside since monday! I think I am going to go from wine to Scotch staring tomorrow if the market downslide doesn't stop.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by PackPride

Want to cry thinking of all the watches I could have bought with the money burned over the last few days.

Oh well- 23 years to retirement so plenty of time.

Exactly... and now that I have sold, I'm browsing the for sale forum (with wife approval even, which is nuts actually)... but I'll be holding the cash for reinvestment.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by beshannon

While I don't disagree, we are on the edge of this getting far worse.

That is what worries me.

Originally Posted by superdog

Definitely a valid theory.

And I am hoping you right. I am certain we all are.

I agree

I enjoy investment quotes and this one seem apropos:

If you have trouble imagining a 20% loss in the stock market, you shouldn’t be in stocks ~ John Bogle, founder Vanguard Group.

[mvmbles]

Decided to do some research last night on monthly dividend paying bond ETFs and ANGL is the one that looked most attractive to me. Share price has for the most part steadily increased since inception, has never had reverse split, .35% expense ratio isn't terrible, and average annual return is 8.2% with dividend reinvested. Opened a starter position today in DRIP account that I plan on keeping long term.

I have no experience with bonds, so wondering if anyone here can provide any insight on ANGL, and/or recommend other bond funds with similar or better performance.

https://www.splithistory.com/?symbol=angl

[77T]

I had a colonoscopy/endoscopy today...

That was a better day than almost 1 Billion others had!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jona]

I'm 70 and retired. The Missus and I get SS, I have a small pension from 1 job and a small annuity. In 2009 I took all my 401(k) money and bought a decent sized annuity with a 7% guaranteed annual stepup and in 10 years it has almost doubled, and I made some additional deposits as well.

I know Fisher and former waitress Suze Orman hate annuities but it's done well for me and the RMD when I turn 72 will be a nice bump to my income. We have a couple of "small" Roths (under 6 figures) with minimal market exposure so I am not much affected by large market swings.

There are many investment strategies. Mine has worked for me and I feel good being largely insulated from the markets. Not from the economy, but I stand to lose very little.

[Jona]

Originally Posted by mvmbles

Opened a starter position today in DRIP account that I plan on keeping long term.

My Urologist suggested a DRIP account in case I need to get up in the night. He also told me to lay off the Urethra Franklin music and start reading Willa Catheter novels.

[GB-man]

Cracks me up how every trade you don’t make comes to fruition. Such is life. At this point we are going to need some very positive news to hold the line tomorrow.

[scarlet knight]

[QUOTE=mvmbles;10413962]Decided to do some research last night on monthly dividend paying bond ETFs and ANGL is the one that looked most attractive to me. Share price has for the most part steadily increased since inception, has never had reverse split, .35% expense ratio isn't terrible, and average annual return is 8.2% with dividend reinvested. Opened a starter position today in DRIP account that I plan on keeping long term.

I have no experience with bonds, so wondering if anyone here can provide any insight on ANGL, and/or recommend other bond funds with similar or better performance.

https://www.splithistory.com/?symbol=angl[/
It buys bonds that were investment grade, but were downgraded. Thus, the bonds have a high yield. But they are on the risky side.

[bayerische]

My local economy paper headline today is "biggest slip in US market history".

Well on the bright side I don't see Rolex grey-market doing too well soon.

[walds11]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Cracks me up how every trade you don’t make comes to fruition. Such is life. At this point we are going to need some very positive news to hold the line tomorrow.

Oh yeah, Murphy’s Law!

Strap on the boots fellas!

I’m long, but still hurts to see this.

[superdog]

Futures set to drop nearly 600 points. The world markets are all massively down.

[brandrea]

The markets have essentially had a 10 year run and we are officially in correction territory. This is to be expected as markets don’t go up in a straight line.

I remember 1987 and all of us here will remember 2009.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by superdog

Futures set to drop nearly 600 points. The world markets are all massively down.

VIX spiked overnight now at 41, flight to safety in bonds has yields falling. As I said yesterday no one will want to hold long today and this may be the panic sell that we need to bottom at least for the short term.

When the case numbers rise there will be another leg down.

[speedbird]

How are people here investing. Individual stocks? I am thinking of going for something like a global tracker. What are the views on that rather than try to pick and choose individual stocks?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by boss13

How are people here investing. Individual stocks? I am thinking of going for something like a global tracker. What are the views on that rather than try to pick and choose individual stocks?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

What is a "global tracker"?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by boss13

How are people here investing. Individual stocks? I am thinking of going for something like a global tracker. What are the views on that rather than try to pick and choose individual stocks?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I’m not a financial expert but this strategy really resonates with me for a number of reasons:

1. It’s simple and easy to understand
2. It takes very little time to manage
3. I invest in companies I understand.

I buy the 2 largest cap, dividend paying stocks from each of the major sectors. 22 stocks in all. I mix in some ETFs as well for global diversification, and because I don’t want foreign holdings or to deal with currency fluctuations.

I rebalance it once a year if a name no longer meets the criteria or if a holding becomes too large or small (roughly 4.5% equal weighting).

It’s called the 2 minute portfolio and I’ve been following this method for many years.

It’s boring and you never see crazy big returns. It under performs the market in up years, and over performs the market in down years.

It has an approximate return of 10% per year over a 20 year period.

It might not be for everyone and I sense many here know a lot more about investing than me, however, I understand simple concepts and the power of compounding.

[smohr33]

Originally Posted by boss13

How are people here investing. Individual stocks? I am thinking of going for something like a global tracker. What are the views on that rather than try to pick and choose individual stocks?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

https://www.bogleheads.org/

Buy the whole market in low expense ETF or mutual funds, maximize your tax advantaged accounts, set an asset allocation that you are comfortable with and ignore all this noise.

My biweekly 401k contribution will contribute as normal today with no changes and my Roth is fully funded for 2020. No other speculation or market timing here.

[derekhayden]

While I am bleeding in my standard investments like everyone else, there are some pretty solid CV plays out there that are keeping me green. It's not for everyone but it's an advantage worth looking into if you have the time to manage them.

I am long on all my other investments so will keep on going and it will recover eventually.

[locutus49]

This is precisely my plan. I am a dividend investor. So when a dividend stock drops enough that the dividend yield becomes high, I buy.

Originally Posted by Letsgodiving

I'm a buy and holder so I am looking out years and not concerned about the near term or even the next couple of years. I am being patient so no large moves at this time but I plan to continue buying on the way down and then hold on for the ride.

[austinp]

Im buying a little this afternoon. AAPL, MSFT, GOOG, AMZN.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by locutus49

This is precisely my plan. I am a dividend investor. So when a dividend stock drops enough that the dividend yield becomes high, I buy.

Solid. Especially as the returns on cash are so low right now. If it is a fundamentally good company with a strong outlook post virus, stock price fluctuations should no matter in the long term, but your cash on cash returns will matter.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by locutus49

This is precisely my plan. I am a dividend investor. So when a dividend stock drops enough that the dividend yield becomes high, I buy.

Good plan, just be sure to check the cover ratio.

Several energy stocks are dangerously close to not being able to cover and will have to cut.

[BroncoOne]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Good plan, just be sure to check the cover ratio.

Several energy stocks are dangerously close to not being able to cover and will have to cut.

Right, smart point. Also a lot of other companies have lots of cash on hand that will continue increasing dividends and doing buybacks as that cash gives them insulation (probably if this is short duration!) over volatile months. Keep an eye out!

[AAP8]

I am just looking to time a Traditional to Roth IRA conversion - I want to convert about 25% of my traditional IRA to Roth - and just wanting the tax bill to be lower - I agree - I am holding out over the weekend at a minimum.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by AAP8

I am just looking to time a Traditional to Roth IRA conversion - I want to convert about 25% of my traditional IRA to Roth - and just wanting the tax bill to be lower - I agree - I am holding out over the weekend at a minimum.

This is a very good question, and one that I think about now and then... My accountant who is very smart with his own money, swears that a traditional Roth is the way to go... He uses the analogy "A bird in the hand"

I do realize the ROTH advantage is paying the tax now and not later on the gains, but you can invest more by not paying the tax now, and deduct from your income. A bird in the hand...

Any thoughts on this?

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

This is a very good question, and one that I think about now and then... My accountant who is very smart with his own money, swears that a traditional Roth is the way to go... He uses the analogy "A bird in the hand"

I do realize the ROTH advantage is paying the tax now and not later on the gains, but you can invest more by not paying the tax now, and deduct from your income. A bird in the hand...

Any thoughts on this?

The math is different for everyone.

In our case the numbers did not support a conversion. We would pay far more in taxes than we would have the time to earn that money back.

Others with a longer time horizon may be able to make a conversion work for them.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by beshannon

The math is different for everyone.

In our case the numbers did not support a conversion. We would pay far more in taxes than we would have the time to earn that money back.

Others with a longer time horizon may be able to make a conversion work for them.

How about in principle, just starting from scratch?

[AAP8]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

How about in principle, just starting from scratch?

I think starting from scratch - Roth is the way to go assuming you can invest the same amount. My last job didn't have a Roth 401K option, so when I left, I had about 10 years of 401K which I rolled into a Traditional IRA. At my new job I use the Roth 401K. I am 37, my plan is to take my Traditional IRA to my Roth IRA over the next few years while the US Tax Law has lower rates and have about 50/50 between the 2 IRA's its 80/20 right now. Depending on how the market goes - I may even push to have the Roth in the 80% pile - but that all depends on my ability to pay the taxes each year. I know I will pay 10-12K in taxes on each roll over - but the gains over the next 20 years should quickly pay for that loss. The answer would be different if I was 50.

If you can't invest the same amount - running the numbers makes sense. I dont know if taxes will go up or down - I do all my math assuming the same tax rate as today - an example I am running right now is below:

• Target Rollover Amount: $100,000
• Tax Rate: 24%
• Projected Tax Bill: $24,000
• Age 37
• Assuming 5% Gains for 20 years: $100,000 -> $265,000 (rounded the figure)
• Tradition Tax Bill in 20 Years: $265,000 * .24 -> $63,600
• Projected Tax Saved: $39,600

Yes, all of these assumptions can change, if the tax rate was 12% in 20 years I would likely break even, but if its 32% - I would save more - this is why I do my math at the same rate - I know 5% is also conservative - so that will impact it as well.

Overall - in addition to the tax hedge - I like the laws around how the taxes on Roth IRA work for when I leave it for my family - they also wont get hit with a tax bill. I have every intention of draining my traditional IRA first - so my major growth is tax free.