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Old 28 December 2020, 01:54 AM   #31
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Old 28 December 2020, 02:03 AM   #32
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Wait, Col. Sanders wasn't in the mil? What next, are going all tin foil hat conspiracy theory and say Santa isn't real?
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Old 28 December 2020, 02:04 AM   #33
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I don't own any Panerai but have seriously considered a few times. Like other above, this was not because of the Sly connection, nor the military side, I just quite liked the look of some pieces. This article won't change that and I may one day pick up a PAM.

I think the author was also heavily involved in researching/digging/trying to out people with respect to the GMT blueberries not long back. Again, to me that mystery was inconclusive with both sides unable to convince me either way. Have to respect the depth to which his articles seem to be researched though and I am sure I have read interesting pieces of his on super fakes of very rare vintage pieces too (a piece on a sub comes to mind? ).

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Old 28 December 2020, 09:18 AM   #34
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Also, the article loses some credibility, IMHO, when it calls Panerai a “laughing stock of the horological world” at the beginning.
To understand the laughing stock thing you need to have followed me for a while. The modern Panerai is notorious for misrepresenting the history of the original company. For instance, all references made between 1936 and 1955 were Rolex Oyster watches with a Panerai-made dial. Rolex sent the watches to Florence with a provisional white dial. There is no mentioning of this fact in their literature. Instead they claim Rolex provided only movements to Panerai. Movements, nota bene, which were manufactured by Cortébert, not Rolex.

https://perezcope.com/2019/08/02/vin...-frankenstein/

https://perezcope.com/2019/05/27/rol...ice-from-1955/



Then there is of course the PAM 203 controversy where they purportedly installed historical NOS Angelus 240 movements which turned out to be cheap key-winding calibers converted to crown-winding.

https://perezcope.com/2016/11/04/the...t-the-pam-203/



They also like to manipulate historical pictures to back their made-up history line. The best story however, is the fact that they are posting Chinese super replicas on their official Instagram. When I pointed this out they had my Instagram account disabled, not once but three times.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CD219AMHgfa/



Here's another interesting story on tritium-based lume.

https://perezcope.com/2019/11/30/lum...um-based-lume/




Cheers

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Old 28 December 2020, 09:49 AM   #35
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What’s the big news here? That a Hollywood star and a watch company used a movie for product placement and embellished the back-story for the benefit of both? Hasn’t that been going on forever with many stars and many companies?
Exactly.
This is Hollywood. Nothing is real.

Whether Sly’s lied about how he “discovered” Panerai in Italy (I am definitely leaning “make-believe”) he helped put Panerai on the map.

I enjoyed reading it.
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Old 28 December 2020, 10:00 AM   #36
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Great.....next you are going tell me Lucky Charms wasn’t even Irish.
Nor magically delicious, I'm afraid.
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Old 28 December 2020, 08:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by pereztroika View Post
To understand the laughing stock thing you need to have followed me for a while. The modern Panerai is notorious for misrepresenting the history of the original company. For instance, all references made between 1936 and 1955 were Rolex Oyster watches with a Panerai-made dial. Rolex sent the watches to Florence with a provisional white dial. There is no mentioning of this fact in their literature. Instead they claim Rolex provided only movements to Panerai. Movements, nota bene, which were manufactured by Cortébert, not Rolex.

https://perezcope.com/2019/08/02/vin...-frankenstein/

https://perezcope.com/2019/05/27/rol...ice-from-1955/



Then there is of course the PAM 203 controversy where they purportedly installed historical NOS Angelus 240 movements which turned out to be cheap key-winding calibers converted to crown-winding.

https://perezcope.com/2016/11/04/the...t-the-pam-203/



They also like to manipulate historical pictures to back their made-up history line. The best story however, is the fact that they are posting Chinese super replicas on their official Instagram. When I pointed this out they had my Instagram account disabled, not once but three times.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CD219AMHgfa/



Here's another interesting story on tritium-based lume.

https://perezcope.com/2019/11/30/lum...um-based-lume/




Cheers

Jose
Thankyou, that's my morning sorted reading those articles!

Vintage watches are fascinating to me but reading these type of articles, along with the blueberry GMT stuff that was going off all over the place recently, scares the hell out of me. I actually love the look of the blueberry, vintage subs etc, but the pricing and difficulty proving provenance is a major turnoff. Maybe that element of danger is half the fun and fascination though :)

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Old 29 December 2020, 01:54 AM   #38
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To understand the laughing stock thing you need to have followed me for a while. The modern Panerai is notorious for misrepresenting the history of the original company. Cheers

Jose
Full respect for your research/articles on Panerai and other brands, shedding light on controversies and uncovering fake/frauds etc ..., especially on vintage Daytonas.

I personally wouldn’t have used the “laughing stock” term in an article that has the appearance of “news.” It’s a loaded phrase that screams bias. Perhaps a better choice would have been just to state the facts, that Panerai has been accused of misrepresenting its history in the past. Just my opinion.
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Old 29 December 2020, 05:26 AM   #39
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^^Bingo^^^. There is absolutely a “Gotcha” motive in the entire article which really holds little to no weight. Like 4 pages of why the KFC “Colonel Sanders” wasn’t really a military figure and the real bomb shell, nor was Captain Crunch. The fact that someone would spend so much time to investigate this speaks volumes about the author and motives.
I don’t know what volumes it speaks but I for one appreciate the details in the article without getting too caught up in the “exposing a scandal” elements.
For many years I believed the fabricated Sly stories and with this article the reality has come full circle.
I surely don’t believe the “gotcha” rhetoric as having earth shattering significance but looking at the horology world and how many new enthusiasts don’t know anything about historical facts as it relates to any brand really(Rolex, Everest come to mind or it’s “firsts”) and see that disgusting falsehood of a video that Stallone made, I think this information is critical.

Especially when you’re auctioning/selling a watch based on that premise, the auction and sale of this watch was all a falsehood or more strongly put, a scam.
I know that is a heavy over exaggerated description but so is the whole sham story behind Sly and Panerai.

Lastly, I’ll say this whole revelation says way more about Stallone than it does anything malicious or conniving about Panerai. This article hasn’t change my opinion about the brand in the least and I’m still lusting after a few models. Stallone on the other hand, shame on you, lost a lot of credibility if it’s possible that a celebrity can ever actually have any when it comes to a product.
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Old 29 December 2020, 05:45 AM   #40
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Panerai, the company / brand, definitely had a fair share of issue (PAM318 any one? haha). But the whole Stallone / product placement story was not the reason why I like their watches. Simply put, I like the style, look and feel, and they are of decent quality.

None of those stories matters (to me) that much. If I don't like their watches, I won't buy one, simple as that.

Stallone makes a living making up stories (into movies), so the whole is neither here nor there for me.
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Old 29 December 2020, 06:55 AM   #41
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Nor magically delicious, I'm afraid.
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Yes they are! Love me some Lucky Charms.



While I appreciate the research, virtually no 'old brands' are the same today as when founded, or even 30 years ago. Was there historic embellishments, don't they all?

Today we have new movements, new styles... new CEO / owners for virtually all old brands. Perhaps the REAL question is... do I appreciate Panerai today, love their timepieces, and does the company treat their customers well. A resounding YES, and why I'm about to get another Panerai timepiece once the Tampa Boutique gets it in.
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Old 29 December 2020, 04:37 PM   #42
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The long term history of Panerai, the design DNA, unique nature of the brand and the camaraderie over the years have kept my interested in the brand. Sly was a client in those days and I am most certain he made a significant contribution to brand identity at that time. I don’t understand spending that type of $$$ on a watch he owned in any case. Is the Newman Daytona worth the money someone paid a few years ago?
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Old 29 December 2020, 11:52 PM   #43
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Yes they are! Love me some Lucky Charms.

Love that bit!
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Old 30 December 2020, 12:31 AM   #44
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Honestly.... who cares. panerai has a good history. There a cool watch. Im missing one in my collection. Thinking between a luminor or a submersible
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Old 30 December 2020, 07:37 AM   #45
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Thinking between a luminor or a submersible
Good choices, if you the wrist for it a Submersible is nice. I'm loving the Luminor.
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Old 3 January 2021, 12:47 AM   #46
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Wait, Col. Sanders wasn't in the mil? What next, are going all tin foil hat conspiracy theory and say Santa isn't real?
I can assure you that they are the same man

Haters gonna hate is what I’m getting from this whole thing.
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Old 3 January 2021, 03:56 AM   #47
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Haters gonna hate is what I’m getting from this whole thing.
Yeah, major bummer for them because I'm loving wearing mine. Have been DESPERATELY waiting on the Tron 1118.

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Old 3 January 2021, 04:03 AM   #48
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Yeah, major bummer for them because I'm loving wearing mine. Have been DESPERATELY waiting on the Tron 1118.

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That’s a beauty Any idea as to when it might arrive?
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Old 3 January 2021, 08:00 AM   #49
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I didn’t buy a panerai because an actor wears one. It does raise questions over what else they might misrepresent, but I’m not getting rid of my watch
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Old 3 January 2021, 08:26 AM   #50
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maskes me want to buy a pam

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Old 3 January 2021, 10:53 AM   #51
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That’s a beauty Any idea as to when it might arrive?
Mid to late January.
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Old 3 January 2021, 11:09 AM   #52
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Before whatever deal Panerai and Sly had, other than that PM Daytona, his taste in watches was awful.
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Old 3 January 2021, 11:12 AM   #53
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As an early Paneristi and a one time collector with a significant Panerai Collection, I can tell you the article does matter and the brand is dead to me and many others. The misrepresentation of material facts regarding the brands origin and history, by the brand, is not what I support or will tolerate. Panerai has been called out across multiple platforms and has had to back up from many of the stories they have told. Another example is Bremont and when they announced they did an in-house movement only to be outed that it was a modified outside movement I stopped considering a purchase. I know that the advertising game is as much about what you do not say as much as what you do say but facts as significant as what is mentioned in the article and other articles from other credible sources is enough to take me away from the brand and I will never return.
interesting, thank you

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Oh and I now have a new iPad wallpaper. Seriously considering getting this printed and framed.

very cool.

as for the scandal, i'd say it likely won't change much overall. but it does take a away from the brand somewhat.
i think panerai is a very collectable brand, much like rolex. i was up to 5 at one point, but in the spirit of downsizing the collection overall i am left with 1.
but this definitely doesn't help me want to buy another one.
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Old 3 January 2021, 11:35 AM   #54
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In the eighties it was proven that Millie vanilla didn’t sing the songs on their album... a class action lawsuit had the victims receive refunds on the purchase of the music.

Personally I didn’t agree as the music was what I was interested in (don’t judge me:) ) not the performers, but as I recall the courts sided against the false narrative of the record company and the entertainers.
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Old 3 January 2021, 03:21 PM   #55
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I think Jose does an awesome job and valuable service to us. It pains me to hear things like this...nothing seems to be true anymore at least when it comes to most famous people...why lie about all of it...but that’s the society we live in now.
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Old 3 January 2021, 06:12 PM   #56
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In the eighties it was proven that Millie vanilla didn’t sing the songs on their album... a class action lawsuit had the victims receive refunds on the purchase of the music.

Personally I didn’t agree as the music was what I was interested in (don’t judge me:) ) not the performers, but as I recall the courts sided against the false narrative of the record company and the entertainers.
Wait what??!? I do not really care about Stallone, but the fact that we have a Milli Vanilli fan here on the forum needs to be swept under the rug immediately!
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Old 3 January 2021, 06:23 PM   #57
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Wait what??!? I do not really care about Stallone, but the fact that we have a Milli Vanilli fan here on the forum needs to be swept under the rug immediately!
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Old 3 January 2021, 07:44 PM   #58
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In the eighties it was proven that Millie vanilla didn’t sing the songs on their album... a class action lawsuit had the victims receive refunds on the purchase of the music.

Personally I didn’t agree as the music was what I was interested in (don’t judge me:) ) not the performers, but as I recall the courts sided against the false narrative of the record company and the entertainers.

Let’s not disparage the great decade that was the 80s. That lawsuit was started in November 1990.
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Old 3 January 2021, 08:50 PM   #59
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Thanks for sharing. Excellent write up. Never was going to buy a Panerai, this part of their history is interesting. Have the authors articles in the past, he comes across as objective and has an attention for detail. I don’t see an axe to grind anywhere.
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Old 3 January 2021, 10:55 PM   #60
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...as I recall the courts sided against the false narrative of the record company and the entertainers.
Wait, you mean the music BUSINESS is built on fraud, lies, and deception????

No way!!!



PS: Was going to do something musically in the 1980s, met with AR folks at majors... decided the BUSINESS was not for me. Many musicians are like me and still love playing music... for the pure joy of it. :)
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