The hobby is not fun anymore

[Patton250]

There have been some great comments here. I’m also pleased that only one or two of you (sir far) totally misunderstood my feelings/thoughts towards my fellow workers flooded house. That’s pretty impressive and I appreciate that.

I hope in the beginning everyone understood that as far as hot or any models go I can get anyone I want. I always have been able to really. I’ve never paid more than retail for any piece I own. I’m only saying this not as bragging but to clarify this thread was not about me complaining I have to over pay for something personally. Just to clarify my point what bothers me is wearing a $13,500 watch somebody today would pay 43K for. That’s what makes me feel dirty. I never bought the watch to begin with because I thought people would be impressed with me by wearing it. In fact when I bought that AP I was fairly confident no one in the world with the exception of WIS would even know what it was. I like that. I like getting a complement and especially and more importantly a conversation from a fellow WIS about a timepiece I’m wearing and not from an envious or worse covetous onlooker that has a little interest in watches other than pretentiousness. I understand as some of you have pointed out the hobby has always had pretentious people however as everyone can clearly see it’s been brought up all new levels. It’s my opinion and please understand just that my opinion that somebody would only overpay so grossly for anything in world but especially a piece of jewelry because of pride and ego. Also please understand I have no problem with a little bit of pride and ego it just makes me uncomfortable when it reaches this extreme and I don’t want to be a part of it. It’s Said, pride eventually destroys and from my experience and observation that’s very true.

Lastly there’s been some great advice about just switching to other really well-made brands that the pop culture has no idea about. I think that’s definitely the best course of action. Some of these models can be bought well below retail. That’s sad for the watchmaker but good for the buyer. Perhaps some of us can help these brands out.

Thanks for everyone’s participation in this and also, at least so far, no one‘s got offended or out of hand. Most people have known what I am talking about and where I’m coming from. That’s awesome.

[1William]

Interesting posts from the OP and responses. How the OP feels and his outlook are his own and I understand what he is saying and he is not wrong. I do not put the same emphasis on some of the areas but I do acknowledge that the watch game has changed significantly in the last few years. Is it better or worse? That is for each of us to decide but, for me, the lack of availability has opened my eyes to other brands and ownership opportunities. Where does all of this go? I am not sure but what I am sure of is the market will not change my love of watches or my desire to learn and own them. It just may not be certain ones.

[m j b]

It's all just "stuff". I'm a serial collector; I buy something when it tickles my fancy, and I sell it (or just give it away) when it no longer brings me joy.

My Rolex watches stopped bringing me joy when they started to get so expensive. My last Omega was sold for more than I paid for it new, two years ago. That's not normal! Omegas aren't supposed to do that, LOL.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I haven't the patience to be put on a waiting list, If I like a watch and it is in the shop and I can afford it, I'll buy it. I don't give unobtainable watches a second thought, they dont give me any angst. I have never bought (or made) a watch for profit so those watches that become "desirable" and hard to get don't really come my way, it's not that I dont like some of them, it's just that I never see them for sale. I just buy watches I like for me, not as a status symbol.

My dream Patek, a watch I will never own I can see in any dealers window any day of the week, I just think that the 5227 is the most wonderful watch ever but beyond my price range. But it is great to look and dream.

I bought a 5119j ( yellow gold Calatrava) a few years ago by trading in a few nice watches that I wasn’t wearing often. It’s another path, I am sure many have done it or thought of it.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I bought a 5119j ( yellow gold Calatrava) a few years ago by trading in a few nice watches that I wasn’t wearing often. It’s another path, I am sure many have done it or thought of it.

You make a brilliant point. I do have a decent amount of watches that would take a big chunk out of the cost of a 5227, I like them all, but, they are not the 5227, if I can save enough to bridge the difference, I would in a heartbeat. It may happen.

[AF_Rob]

There are many things about this hobby I can't stand but they are easy to avoid. In any social media platform, I generally only engage in topics I find interesting and avoid the rest, wherever possible.

I'm glad I came into the hobby when I did. I have the few Rolex pieces I want and now I'm done with the brand, most likely.

There is nothing in the current lineup I'm willing to pay insane prices or sacrifice any of my current pieces for. There are too many good brands out there to pay the current markups.

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by AF_Rob

There are many things about this hobby I can't stand but they are easy to avoid. In any social media platform, I generally only engage in topics I find interesting and avoid the rest, wherever possible.

I'm glad I came into the hobby when I did. I have the few Rolex pieces I want and now I'm done with the brand, most likely.

There is nothing in the current lineup I'm willing to pay insane prices or sacrifice any of my current pieces for. There are too many good brands out there to pay the current markups.

I am fortunate enough to have started my Rolex collection when the watches were available.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Patton250

It’s not only not fun I kind of feel dirty about the whole thing. When a new watch I got a discount for and paid $13500 5 years ago is for sale and the owner is asking $43,000 for it we are well beyond ridiculousness in our hobby. I don’t blame the seller mind you. If someone wants to give $43,000 for something that cost $13,000 ($17,500) retail how can that be the fault of the seller? My point is I’m not sure I even want to own a watch that has no horological significance other than an hour, minute and seconds hand with date yet someone feels it’s ok paying 2.5X what’s its worth at full retail all so they can have a current “hot” model on their wrist. In fact this behavior is making me hate this model now. As well as others where the same thing is happening. Pricing of these things absolutely has nothing to do with the complication, materials or workmanship anymore. It’s all about perceived coolness. It’s tragic. It’s bad for the hobby. Breguet has one of the best histories in all of horology as well as some excellent complications and craftsmanship yet none of their timepieces can even sell close to retail because they are not considered “hot” models. Yet to me if I saw someone wearing a Breguet with an awesome complication I would be significantly more impressed with the wearer then if they were wearing the aforementioned 15400 AP or even a basic Nautilis. Obviously someone that’s going to overpay for a nine year old watch must be doing so because 43K isn’t much money to them. Stupid me I always thought the extremely wealthy were most likely to be the smartest with their money. Well if they are it certainly doesn’t play out in the watch industry.

I realize this subject has been beaten to death but it really never has affected me like it has lately. It’s made me rethink about something that I really love and enjoy and caused me to enter into a bit of feeling guilty. Even dirty. Somebody’s going to pay 43K for a watch that retailed nine years ago for 17.5 K and should probably not be worth a dime over 10K today. Meanwhile one of the ladies in our corporate office had her house flooded and she financially destitute now. None of this makes any sense. Anyway rant over and you guys can all bash me now.

I would like to know how some of you guys feel about this. If some of you who truly love horology for what it is feel the same way.

PS- yes I understand how capitalism works. I love capitalism. So please don’t go down that road with a lecture. We are past capitalism now and entered a level of greed and pride I’ve never seen before. So no lecture on how markets work or on capitalism is going to change my mind on this.

Capitalism does need basic ethical rules to work correctly, and I think those went out the window in the watch world a few years ago. Anyone that gives you a hard time is probably confusing crony capitalism with capitalism. The watch market is now privatized crony capitalism and a place for many to park capital and or earnings (just like cryptos). For those reasons, I have lost a lot of interest myself too.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

I am fortunate enough to have started my Rolex collection when the watches were available.

I agree. It's very strange to walk into an AD and not even see SS Subs and GMT Masters anymore. I think Rolex needs to rethink their distribution plan and move away from the limited edition hyper-car game they are playing and move back to the high end client experience. That latter being offering a full selection of watches at higher MSRPs that equal market demand, and making up for that with a great customer buying experience. That's what I always had prior to 2017, and what I think is best for the market in the long-run in order to not discourage future enthusiasts. Rolex instead is banking on demographic shifts and those as with anything trendy is just that, trendy and non-sticky revenue.

[JasoninDenver]

I feel the OPs pain. I rarely even open the brand forum here anymore. It is solely the members here on the open forum keep me indirectly active in the forum.

I honestly do not think I will buy another Rolex, but my interest in the hobby has not diminished. Merely shifted towards other brands. A big part of this is the discomfort I have knowing how much this chunk of metal is worth just because of the hype.

I have seriously considered a Grand Seiko and part of the draw is being able to say “Its a Seiko”.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

I feel the OPs pain. I rarely even open the brand forum here anymore. It is solely the members here on the open forum keep me indirectly active in the forum.

I honestly do not think I will buy another Rolex, but my interest in the hobby has not diminished. Merely shifted towards other brands. A big part of this is the discomfort I have knowing how much this chunk of metal is worth just because of the hype.

I have seriously considered a Grand Seiko and part of the draw is being able to say “Its a Seiko”.

Haha me too! Glad I’m not the only one getting drawn to GS. Dials are spectacular and “it’s just a seiko”


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[904VT]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

I feel the OPs pain. I rarely even open the brand forum here anymore. It is solely the members here on the open forum keep me indirectly active in the forum.

I honestly do not think I will buy another Rolex, but my interest in the hobby has not diminished. Merely shifted towards other brands. A big part of this is the discomfort I have knowing how much this chunk of metal is worth just because of the hype.

I have seriously considered a Grand Seiko and part of the draw is being able to say “Its a Seiko”.

So true about being able to say it's a Seiko

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Haha me too! Glad I’m not the only one getting drawn to GS. Dials are spectacular and “it’s just a seiko”


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I've been really liking GS too lately. Their GMT is high on my purchase list as is their Sub alternative with a color dial. I do love my Rolex, but at a certain point Rolex watches just aren't worth the time and effort. I don't want to be treated like I'm doing someone a favor when I'm dropping/spending $10k lol. Customers at that level pricing of goods need to be treated with better customer service. Part of that customer service is a transparent buying experience.

[Token74]

I don’t really see the issue if I’m honest. Not saying you’re wrong OP, I just see things differently.

I’m currently on holiday with friends for a couple of days. As I’m away, I’m wearing my Pepsi, a watch that is hyped.

My friends have no interest in watches, and have no idea that the watch is worth double retail. I’m planning to do very little whilst away, other than lie by our pool, so not going to be mingling with strangers, so the watch isn’t going to get any attention.

So the hype isn’t relevant to anyone whilst I’m here, it’s just a watch that I can enjoy wearing for my own pleasure. And this is not unusual…outside of forums, this is topical of my everyday watch experience, most don’t notice, and absolutely nobody cares!

I don’t care of the watches go up in value, but I like watches to hold their value (makes it an easier purchase). And I like that I have to wait for them, it’s nice to not just be able to have what i want when i want it. And I don’t care at all about the hype, as I don’t think it’s relevant in the circles I move in away from forum life!


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[brandrea]

I’ve never really thought much about it in those terms Brett.

I’ve just never been focused on what my watch collection might be worth now vs. when I bought them.

I do worry about new watch enthusiasts and what it must feel like to jump through all the hoops to make a purchase.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’ve never really thought much about it in those terms Brett.

I’ve just never been focused on what my watch collection might be worth now vs. when I bought them.

I do worry about new watch enthusiasts and what it must feel like to jump through all the hoops to make a purchase.

No Brian that’s not really what was on my mind. I’ve only ever cared about what my watches are worth so that I could use them to possibly buy other watches if I ever get sick of a particular model. Anything past that the value of them is meaningless to me. When I’m talking about is the fact that people overpay so significantly for some of these particular models it makes these models feel corrupt to me. Dirty. In other words it makes them less desirable for me to own and wear. And I dislike this feeling. Does this make sense my friend? Maybe I’m crazy

[Brew]

That’s interesting. Other folk’s acquisition of the same watch impacts OP’s enjoyment of the same watches.

Some sort of Horological Engaglement?


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[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Brew

That’s interesting. Other folk’s acquisition of the same watch impacts OP’s enjoyment of the same watches.

Some sort of Horological Engaglement?


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Yeah I heard your first time. Thanks for commenting.

[kieselguhr]

Mmm... but everything is up in price.

My nephew is selling table top trading cards for thousands of dollars. He was talking to me about selling a single card, with holographic print, for more money than the most expensive Tudor.

Older Japanese cars that you used to be able to pick up from Craigslist for $1000 just 5 years ago are now going for $25,000 or even higher.

Real estate. 2 bedroom dumps that could be had for $87,000 now going for 3x the price.

Don’t let it get to you. Just play if you want, take a break if you don’t.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Mmm... but everything is up in price.

My nephew is selling table top trading cards for thousands of dollars. He was talking to me about selling a single card, with holographic print, for more money than the most expensive Tudor.

Older Japanese cars that you used to be able to pick up from Craigslist go or $1000 just 5 years ago are not going for $25,000.

Real estate. 2 bedroom dumps that could be had for $87,000 now going for 3x the price.

Don’t let it get to you. Just play if you want, take a break if you don’t.

You are absolutely correct however none of those things you just named have a set retail price. I mean there are definitely certain new cars people are paying over retail for but not four times their value. Not that I’ve seen anyway. Perhaps you could point and example out to me.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by Patton250

No Brian that’s not really what was on my mind. I’ve only ever cared about what my watches are worth so that I could use them to possibly buy other watches if I ever get sick of a particular model. Anything past that the value of them is meaningless to me. When I’m talking about is the fact that people overpay so significantly for some of these particular models it makes these models feel corrupt to me. Dirty. In other words it makes them less desirable for me to own and wear. And I dislike this feeling. Does this make sense my friend? Maybe I’m crazy

It does not make you crazy. It just makes you a snob.


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[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You are absolutely correct however none of those things you just named have a set retail price. I mean there are definitely certain new cars people are paying over retail for but not four times their value. Not that I’ve seen anyway. Perhaps you could point and example out to me.

These playing cards come from packs that cost $15.


Example of cars that used to sell for under 5k majority of which go for above 15k now

https://www.classic.com/m/nissan/silvia/s13/240sx/

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

My enjoyment comes from finding vintage watches whose greatest value is their visual appeal to me.

This is where I've been for a few years now.

It's a completely personal thing, when I walk in to a store and see a watch that rings my bell and is selling for a very reasonable price because the hoi polloi don't crave it.

A good example:

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by teck21

It does not make you crazy. It just makes you a snob.


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Actually it’s funny that you mention that. It’s just the opposite. Only a snob would pay 43K for a watch that’s brand new at 17.5K. You might want to rethink this.

[Blansky]

Not to be contrary (ha ha) but I never considered this a hobby to begin with.

I like watches. So I buy a few. They make me feel good.

I like clothes, I have quite a few, but it’s not a hobby.

Photography could be a hobby, or piano or chasing women.

Watches, not really. I don’t dedicate all that much energy to them. And have no real angst about them.

I just find ones I like and buy them or not.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by teck21

It does not make you crazy. It just makes you a snob.
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I think you couldn't be more wrong.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Not to be contrary (ha ha) but I never considered this a hobby to begin with.

I like watches. So I buy a few. They make me feel good.

I like clothes, I have quite a few, but it’s not a hobby.

Photography could be a hobby, or piano or chasing women.

Watches, not really.

I get what you’re saying brother. But for me time keeping devices is a hobby. I love all fashions of keeping time. I’m currently in the hunt for a pre-United States founding grandfather clock. Preferably one made in Boston or some other place in New England. I love anything that keeps time. So for me it is a hobby.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Not to be contrary (ha ha) but I never considered this a hobby to begin with.

I like watches. So I buy a few. They make me feel good.

I like clothes, I have quite a few, but it’s not a hobby.

Photography could be a hobby, or piano or chasing women.

Watches, not really. I don’t dedicate all that much energy to them. I just find ones I like and buy them or not.

I consider watches to be a hobby, because I collect them and I am interested enough to read extensively about subject, besides the time spent discussing the subject here.

Just buying clothes doesn't really meet the criteria for being a hobby, unless you are like Charlie Watts and you're buying clothes of historical significance or maybe you follow a designer's work and you have some systematic means of collecting and storing and maybe going to clothing shows, or whatever they're called--I know there must be a fancy word for that.

When I was a kid and got into coin collecting, I could only afford to collect cents and nickels, but I was absolutely absorbed with the subject, read everything I could get my hands on and subscribed to Coin World at the age of twelve. Even at that age, I considered myself more than a collector. I was a numismatist!

It's not what you do. It's how you go about it that make you a hobbyist.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I consider watches to be a hobby, because I collect them and I am interested enough to read extensively about subject, besides the time spent discussing the subject here.

Just buying clothes doesn't really meet the criteria for being a hobby, unless you are like Charlie Watts and you're buying clothes of historical significance or maybe you follow a designer's work and you have some systematic means of collecting and storing and maybe going to clothing shows, or whatever they're called--I know there must be a fancy word for that.

When I was a kid and got into coin collecting, I could only afford to collect cents and nickels, but I was absolutely absorbed with the subject, read everything I could get my hands on and subscribed to Coin World at the age of twelve. Even at that age, I considered myself more than a collector. I was a numismatist!

It's not what you do. It's how you go about it that make you a hobbyist.

Yup. I meant for me. In the beginning I learned a lot about mechanical watches and bought a lot that didn’t stick and now most of my 10 are probably keepers. But if Patek wants to do something weird or Journe, I just look at other brands.

When Rolex started playing these games it meant nothing to me. I’m not emotionally involved in it. If that’s the direction they want to go, good for them.

That was my point. Lots of other fish in the sea than to get crazy about Rolex availability.

I think I’d only consider it a hobby if I actually repaired or rebuilt them or worked on them. All I ever do is change straps, so for me it’s not involved enough to be a hobby. Just sort of a fun thing to own or buy.

[herts9]

It’s easier to tolerate this hobby when you can come to grips that “retail” is just a fabricated number.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yup. I meant for me. In the beginning I learned a lot about mechanical watches and bought a lot that didn’t stick and now most of my 10 are probably keepers. But if Patek wants to do something weird or Journe, I just look at other brands.

When Rolex started playing these games it meant nothing to me. I’m not emotionally involved in it. If that’s the direction they want to go, good for them.

That was my point. Lots of other fish in the sea than to get crazy about Rolex availability.

I'm mostly in agreement with you, but I don't hold Rolex responsible. If I can find it, I'll post Rolex's official response.

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