Getting into the FPJ club with the havana…

[kunlun]

Hi, I'm a fan of FPJ and the dials are stamped at their dial factory of which they are majority owner. It's not a secret and you can easily confirm with a boutique.

Czapek dials are stamped as well, interestingly.

Of course, lower quality makers like Patek stamp many of their dials, but still employ guillocheurs for higher-end pieces.

Breguet dials will note "guilloché main" when the dial or rotor is hand-guillochéd.

[pdnb]

I think the point of confusion is around the word guilloiche is that it can describe the type of pattern that is on the dial; but does not guarantee how the pattern was manufactured.


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by pdnb

I think the point of confusion is around the word guilloiche is that it can describe the type of pattern that is on the dial; but does not guarantee how the pattern was manufactured.

This.

Based on this article by Hourglass, there are manually-patterned guilloché and CNC machining that are capable of automatically stamping and cutting seemingly guilloché patterns on watch dials in minutes. I understand the guilloché on most FPJ dials are not manual guilloché.

https://www.thehourglass.com/horolog...-of-guilloche/

For instance the 5930G, the manufacturer made it explicitly clear it is manually done - "The blue dial is decorated with a circular guilloché pattern crafted by hand."; or Breguet Tradition - "hand-engraved on a rose engine."

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Hi, I'm a fan of FPJ and the dials are stamped at their dial factory of which they are majority owner. It's not a secret and you can easily confirm with a boutique.

Czapek dials are stamped as well, interestingly.

Of course, lower quality makers like Patek stamp many of their dials, but still employ guillocheurs for higher-end pieces.

Breguet dials will note "guilloché main" when the dial or rotor is hand-guillochéd.

Wow, I must confess to being rather taken aback and disappointed by this. Also an FPJ fan btw (mostly on account of the movements and innovations). I think it's misleading at best to describe a stamped dial as guilloche.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Hi, I'm a fan of FPJ and the dials are stamped at their dial factory of which they are majority owner. It's not a secret and you can easily confirm with a boutique.

Czapek dials are stamped as well, interestingly.

Of course, lower quality makers like Patek stamp many of their dials, but still employ guillocheurs for higher-end pieces.

Breguet dials will note "guilloché main" when the dial or rotor is hand-guillochéd.

Not entirely true regarding Czapek. I believe most dials are stamped. The Faubourg de Cracovie is however an engine turned dial. I’m not sure why it’s a big deal either way, maybe with the exception of AP where I would hope they continue producing the RO dials the old school way.

https://monochrome-watches.com/czape...ands-on-price/

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by Patek_collector

After test driving this beauty, i may get is as an entrance to the FPJ world. It is very discrete and different. I will make my mind in next 2 days and share more picture but it is growing on me. Of course it is from a resale but a good reseller!




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I want this

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Wow, I must confess to being rather taken aback and disappointed by this. Also an FPJ fan btw (mostly on account of the movements and innovations). I think it's misleading at best to describe a stamped dial as guilloche.

I was in a discussion with the exact same topic.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...1#post11667961

Someone actually included an informative article in this thread regarding guilloché and my takeaway is that it is implied to be hand made but can be stamped or even CNC.

I did check with my AD, the Tourbillion Vertical does get a hand engraved dial along with the Grand Feu enamel sub dials.

The stamped dial does not bother me a bit though as we do not buy FPJ for the ultimate finishes not the dial work. We got Kari for that. It is more the innovation in the movement design which I enjoy. Most Patek watches do not have guilloché dials but we all happily pay for it. 😀

[BrunoMalik]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Hi, I'm a fan of FPJ and the dials are stamped at their dial factory of which they are majority owner. It's not a secret and you can easily confirm with a boutique.

Czapek dials are stamped as well, interestingly.

Of course, lower quality makers like Patek stamp many of their dials, but still employ guillocheurs for higher-end pieces.

Breguet dials will note "guilloché main" when the dial or rotor is hand-guillochéd.

This is wrong. Every Czapek guilloche dial is done by hand.

https://czapek.com/inside-czapek-dials/


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[ajw45]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Wow, I must confess to being rather taken aback and disappointed by this. Also an FPJ fan btw (mostly on account of the movements and innovations). I think it's misleading at best to describe a stamped dial as guilloche.

About as misleading as saying the centigraphe measures to 1/100th of a second or that the resonance actually improves precision in the real world.

FPJ makes beautiful watches so I'm not bagging on FPJ specifically but all brand marketing should be taken with a grain of salt and at these prices customers should know what they are buying rather than guessing.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by ajw45

About as misleading as saying the centigraphe measures to 1/100th of a second or that the resonance actually improves precision in the real world.

FPJ makes beautiful watches so I'm not bagging on FPJ specifically but all brand marketing should be taken with a grain of salt and at these prices customers should know what they are buying rather than guessing.

I agree, and I think watchmakers should be prevented from describing a dial as "guilloche" if it isn't engine-turned.