Father in Law’s Rolex - Genuine or Fake?

[KY..]

I wouldn’t buy a tool and risk messing it up worst without being 100% sure.
Just go to a certified watch repair shop and ask them to loosen the caseback for you to see the movement condition and post the pics here.

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I, too, would like to see inside. Try and find someone with a tool, some local watch repairer, rather than try it yourself.

I'm moving this over to the Vintage section for some more helpful/informed advice.

Thank you, yes any extra advice is welcome.

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by KY..

I wouldn’t buy a tool and risk messing it up worst without being 100% sure.
Just go to a certified watch repair shop and ask them to loosen the caseback for you to see the movement condition and post the pics here.

I can tell him and see if he can find anyone, he’s often overseas so I don’t think he’ll be aware as to what’s available here, but we can maybe do a Google search or something.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by SeyRolex

I can tell him and see if he can find anyone, he’s often overseas so I don’t think he’ll be aware as to what’s available here, but we can maybe do a Google search or something.

If you can get the bracelet off and a photo between the lugs of the serial or model number it would answer the question with some level of surety. If you YouTube bracelet removal a bunch of videos will come up.

The engine turned bezel to my knowledge has never been faked in any decent way - and a bunch of other stuff is telling me that the watch is likely gen - but the aftermarket dial can mean something crazy has gone on - like a water damaged movement being replaced with an eta or something. So - step one get us some shots of the engravings on the case, step two see a watch maker to pop the back off and show us hopefully a 1570.

[Fredrik]

Use a paperclip to remove the bracelet and take some photos between the lugs.

With the bracelet off, make a ball out of duct tape and try to unscrew the caseback with it, it often works!

Oh, you need the sticky side out on the duct tape ball (of course...).

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

If you can get the bracelet off and a photo between the lugs of the serial or model number it would answer the question with some level of surety. If you YouTube bracelet removal a bunch of videos will come up.

The engine turned bezel to my knowledge has never been faked in any decent way - and a bunch of other stuff is telling me that the watch is likely gen - but the aftermarket dial can mean something crazy has gone on - like a water damaged movement being replaced with an eta or something. So - step one get us some shots of the engravings on the case, step two see a watch maker to pop the back off and show us hopefully a 1570.

Thank you for the info - I’m a bit nervous now to do anything with it now it might at least partially be genuine. I’ll try and speak to him soon and ask if he’s willing to take it somewhere or what.

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Use a paperclip to remove the bracelet and take some photos between the lugs.

With the bracelet off, make a ball out of duct tape and try to unscrew the caseback with it, it often works!

Oh, you need the sticky side out on the duct tape ball (of course...).

Again thank you for the help. I did try duct tape but it is completely stuck, makes me wonder if there is water damage/rust and it’s just really hard to take off. The YouTube videos I saw people were popping them off with quite some ease with the method you described, which is why I thought I might need a proper tool to get that extra torque.

I can look up about removing the bracelet but as I said I’m a bit worried about messing it up in anyway if it could be genuine.

[Fredrik]

Removing the bracelet with a paperclip or even better, a tooth pick is quite easy and it isn't that difficult to get it back on again.

The engravings between the lugs will be a great clue to whether the watch is genuine and worth a trip somewhere.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by gerry100

bracelet could be genuine

The bezel / case might be ....

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Removing the bracelet with a paperclip or even better, a tooth pick is quite easy and it isn't that difficult to get it back on again.

The engravings between the lugs will be a great clue to whether the watch is genuine and worth a trip somewhere.

X2 start between the lugs!! A big ball of Blu Tack is a good tool for removing the case back!

[Incroyable12]

Since you're in London one of the watchmakers in Hatton Garden could do it easily.

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Removing the bracelet with a paperclip or even better, a tooth pick is quite easy and it isn't that difficult to get it back on again.

The engravings between the lugs will be a great clue to whether the watch is genuine and worth a trip somewhere.

I guess I’ll have to look up a video as I wouldn’t know how to do that (nor how to reattach). Would it be a specific technique to Rolex’s or just that generally type of bracelet?

[SeyRolex]

Originally Posted by Incroyable12

Since you're in London one of the watchmakers in Hatton Garden could do it easily.

Thank you, I’ll mention that to him. I don’t want to do anything to the watch until he gives me the ok, but hopefully I’ll see him soon and try removing the bracelet, perhaps taking off the back and also getting in touch with an expert who can give us a better idea.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by SeyRolex

I guess I’ll have to look up a video as I wouldn’t know how to do that (nor how to reattach). Would it be a specific technique to Rolex’s or just that generally type of bracelet?

It's a common type/technique. The bracelet is held in place by two springloaded bars that you can dislodge, as mentioned earlier, with a toothpick or something. Yours will likely be worn out and need replacing anyway so don't worry about breaking them and you can easily get a pair of replacements for a couple of quid.

[SeyRolex]

Ok I’ve managed to take off the bracelet at the 6 o clock point but not 12 o clock.

I couldn’t see anything at the end of the bracelet (picture included) but did at the bottom side of the case (picture included).

Really hard to keep camera still! But it reads: STAINLESS STEEL 6418518

Any ideas?

[Old Expat Beast]

That's the serial number, which dates the watch to around the late 1970s or early 80s. There's a quick reference chart here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=54362

[TuRo]

If it's good, photo is blurry to be sure... it's a late 70s / early-ish 1980s case (SRL no. related date) STAINLESS STEEL is usual stamp expected to be found

The other end will have REGISTERED DESIGN and a model number like 1601 btw hopefully !

[Old Expat Beast]

That serial is also a match for the 'D' on the clasp. All good so far.

[SeyRolex]

That’s great. Thank you all.

I will try again with the other end later and try and post a photo. I have a disability which makes this all a bit harder so bear with me if I take a bit longer. Seems like the other end is very stiff. If I can’t today I’ll try get a family member to try if they visit or something.

[SeyRolex]

Just managed it. Says REGISTERED DESIGN 16030

Apologies again for photo quality - really hard to get it to focus and not be blurred

[Old Expat Beast]

So it's a Rolex DateJust 16030, or most of it. You can Google that for more info right now. Congratulations!

Here's an article to get you started: https://www.fratellowatches.com/the-...t-spooky/#gref

[TuRo]

Think you've got a correct/pukka case there - so worth checking the mvt inside and the bracelet and you might have a nice watch if you replace the dial - good news is that a 16030 replacement dial and handset is at the low end of secondhand prices; from £300 plus if you are not fussed about colour - good respectable eBay sellers have them from that I've noted in past !

Edit- had a look and few available dials from £150-200 like this one - suggest getting the team here to look at anything you are considering though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175000522...mis&media=COPY

All the best.

[SeyRolex]

That’s great news, I hope he’ll be pleased. I do have a little tool on the way to open up the back, so if he wants me to go ahead with that I can try it, or if he just wants to take it to a pro that’s fine (less risky I’m sure). Even if we do open it up hopefully he’ll take it somewhere to get a proper assessment and maybe how to get it ticking again.

I will try and post pics of movement if I can open it (thanks for all the tips about how open it with tape or Blu tac but it just seems completely jammed).

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by SeyRolex

That’s great news, I hope he’ll be pleased. I do have a little tool on the way to open up the back, so if he wants me to go ahead with that I can try it, or if he just wants to take it to a pro that’s fine (less risky I’m sure). Even if we do open it up hopefully he’ll take it somewhere to get a proper assessment and maybe how to get it ticking again.

I will try and post pics of movement if I can open it (thanks for all the tips about how open it with tape or Blu tac but it just seems completely jammed).

It could well be seized up, and attempted opening could mess up the teeth on the case if you don't have the correct tools and experience. Just take it to someone with the right tools and ask them to open it and then loosely close it so you can open it later or whatever.

[rootbeer7]

Interesting how many ‘experts’ screamed fake at first! OP parts for these watches are easily sourced and not overly expensive. Hatton Garden is a good place to start.

[KY..]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It could well be seized up, and attempted opening could mess up the teeth on the case if you don't have the correct tools and experience. Just take it to someone with the right tools and ask them to open it and then loosely close it so you can open it later or whatever.

Best listen to the wise OP and be careful.
I would only use an original Rolex or a Bergeon caseback tool for opening that old of a caseback.
If you purchased one of the made in China caseback tools from Ebay or similar they are not always a perfect fit and can slip and mar the caseback teeth.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by SeyRolex

That’s great news, I hope he’ll be pleased. I do have a little tool on the way to open up the back, so if he wants me to go ahead with that I can try it, or if he just wants to take it to a pro that’s fine (less risky I’m sure). Even if we do open it up hopefully he’ll take it somewhere to get a proper assessment and maybe how to get it ticking again.

I will try and post pics of movement if I can open it (thanks for all the tips about how open it with tape or Blu tac but it just seems completely jammed).

I don't like to use the hand tools to open oyster case-backs, they slip too easily. I prefer one of the integrated tools with a holder for the watch case and a lockable clamp that screws down the opener from above. Bergeon and Horotec make expensive versions of these with heavy bases, and LG sells a modular bench-mountable tool that is pretty good and less expensive, but still a substantial investment and doesn't have as many options for holding the case.

I have a Chinese clone of the Bergeon 1500, which are available for about $150. You will see various versions of this all over eBay, but I think they are all made by the same manufacturer. It has worked very well for me, opening many different cases over the years. In fact, I would say it has been perfect; never failed to open a case, and never caused any damage. I'm sure the quality is not quite at the level of Bergeon/Horotec, and perhaps if I were opening a dozen cases each day, I would be willing to invest $1k in an opener, but the tool I have is very solid and will probably last longer than me. Just wanted to give my first-hand impression.

[Stan Cooper]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't like to use the hand tools to open oyster case-backs, they slip too easily. I prefer one of the integrated tools with a holder for the watch case and a lockable clamp that screws down the opener from above. Bergeon and Horotec make expensive versions of these with heavy bases, and LG sells a modular bench-mountable tool that is pretty good and less expensive, but still a substantial investment and doesn't have as many options for holding the case.

I have a Chinese clone of the Bergeon 1500, which are available for about $150. You will see various versions of this all over eBay, but I think they are all made by the same manufacturer. It has worked very well for me, opening many different cases over the years. In fact, I would say it has been perfect; never failed to open a case, and never caused any damage. I'm sure the quality is not quite at the level of Bergeon/Horotec, and perhaps if I were opening a dozen cases each day, I would be willing to invest $1k in an opener, but the tool I have is very solid and will probably last longer than me. Just wanted to give my first-hand impression.

This; I learned the hard way.

[Incroyable12]

Those proper tools are an expensive investment for someone who isn't a watchmaker or serious Rolex hobbyist.

There's a good watchmaker called AMJ Watches in Hatton Garden who can do this for some nominal fee.

[fozzyf18]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It could well be seized up, and attempted opening could mess up the teeth on the case if you don't have the correct tools and experience. Just take it to someone with the right tools and ask them to open it and then loosely close it so you can open it later or whatever.

OP, please follow this guidance. His experience is very very well respected around here. Buying a substandard tool on the cheap and attempting to open the case back yourself is not a good idea. Even those of us mechanically inclined tend to shy away from this.

Take it to someone who knows what they are doing, be it an AD or qualified watchmaker, and sleep well knowing you didn’t cause unnecessary damage.