Buying a GMT 16710 - Assistance Required

[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by ROlesorusLEX

Someone mentioned changing bezels. I have a 16710 Pepsi. How can I get the other 2 bezels, and a jubilee bracelet. Go to AD or request from RSC? Any advice here is appreciated. Thank you.

Sent from my NE2215 using Tapatalk

You can try a local AD or RSC, though whether they will sell to you, or sell to you without requiring you to turn in your current part, varies widely.

For the jubilee bracelet - 61250H, you need to know which 16710 you have, as it may impact which endlinks, i.e., a 16710T uses a 62150H w/ “50” of the links and 502T endlinks.

If your luck doesn’t work at your local ADs, many reputable sellers sell the parts on the Rolex Watch Accessories, Parts & Novelties sub forum on TRF.

https://www.rolexforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37

[dannyp]

An alternate thought: You say you'd like a smaller sized "air" watch, why not opt for the pre-17/18 114200 - the previous OP34 that still said "Air-King" on the dial?

[SparklesMcgraw]

I’m pretty sure the one you posted from Chrono has been polished. The crown on the clasp looks a bit polished although they are bad pics. Would need higher res pics to know better.

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by PepsiBezel

1. You could always brush the center links of other bracelets… but this all seems like a whole lot of work. If you want the 61250H Jubilee or a 636000 Super Jubilee the 6 O’clock 4 fixed links won’t be an issue… and even if it was an issue yay should try it first.

2. Unless you have a very very high powered loupe and a lot of expertise you won’t be able to identify an unpolished 16710. A caseback sticker is not indicative because the caseback is unscrewed for service or polishing.

3. Later reference 16710s have a “stick dial” (non-serif Roman numeral II), or a “box dial” (the “II” looks like a rectangular box). If you don’t know about these, I don’t think it is worth hunting down. It is not like a flat-4 for the 16610LV. You already have pretty narrow parameters and a limiting price point, so not sure why you’d limit it further.

4. You can see the wiggle for yourself and determine if you can tolerate it. I suspect that if most people never read about it on a forum they would not notice.

https://youtu.be/zbJxqeZ3luM

Would you say it’d be okay to go with a watch that might’ve perhaps been sent for service once and got polished? I have a very hard time distinguishing what’s polished and not.

Originally Posted by dannyp

An alternate thought: You say you'd like a smaller sized "air" watch, why not opt for the pre-17/18 114200 - the previous OP34 that still said "Air-King" on the dial?

I already have enough watches that are “simpler” in style, so a GMT would be a perfect addition. Also, I love the Pepsi bezel. An Air King wouldn’t be the same thing, not even close.

Originally Posted by SparklesMcgraw

I’m pretty sure the one you posted from Chrono has been polished. The crown on the clasp looks a bit polished although they are bad pics. Would need higher res pics to know better.

I messaged them and they told me it’s never been serviced, hence no polish. Although as mentioned, I can’t see what’s polished or not.

[SparklesMcgraw]

Wel they would say that. Get better pics and we should be able to tell. I’m always very suspicious of watches claimed to be unpolished. Very few are. Slight well done polishing I have no issue with but people claiming what they cannot confirm I’m very sceptic of.

I would ask high res pics.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

Hey,

I've been looking around for which watch to add to my collection next. A GMT would really compliment my current collection, as I still lack an "air" watch. I have rather tiny wrists. After getting my DJ, my Sub didn't get much wrist time as it feels bulky. I have come to the conclusion that smaller watches are much more my thing. A current GMT model would basically have the same case as the Sub, although it might sit a bit flatter. At the same time, I do prefer a technically superior watch. I'm not the type to go after a vintage watch just to own something with a bit of age.

The best compromise seems to an older GMT, but in a more modern variant. The 16710 isn't that old, but more "neo vintage". The 16710 seems to come in several different variations. If I've understood it correctly; the last variant of the 16710 to come out had the 3186 caliber. The prior (penultimate) model had the lug holes removed. Is that correct? Those with the 3186 calibers seems to have extremely high price points. Which model would be most modern, but at the same time not extremely expensive? Would a 2007 model, but with the 3185 caliber be the best option?

Also, what's the real difference between the calibers? Is the 3815 as reliable, or is the 3816 worth premium? I'd like to have a stable caliber as possible, as this will be a life long watch.

So, what do you guys recommend? I'm rather keen on having a perfect condition watch with full set. How much should I expect to pay for a full set, perfect (doesn't need to be nos, but unpolished and in very good) condition in the most recent/next most recent variant of the 16710?

Thank you. :)

Any watchmaker will tell you 3185 over 3186.

[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

Would you say it’d be okay to go with a watch that might’ve perhaps been sent for service once and got polished? I have a very hard time distinguishing what’s polished and not.


….


I messaged them and they told me it’s never been serviced, hence no polish. Although as mentioned, I can’t see what’s polished or not.

Yes, I think lightly/professionally polished is no issue.

As another poster mentioned, you should ask for high resolution pictures and if it’s never been serviced ask how it’s running and for timegrapher data (as you may need to service it upon receipt - no big deal, just factor it in).

A reason Jacek at Tropical Watch is well regarded is his high resolution and clear pictures.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/search?q=16710

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by SparklesMcgraw

Wel they would say that. Get better pics and we should be able to tell. I’m always very suspicious of watches claimed to be unpolished. Very few are. Slight well done polishing I have no issue with but people claiming what they cannot confirm I’m very sceptic of.

I would ask high res pics.

Originally Posted by PepsiBezel

Yes, I think lightly/professionally polished is no issue.

As another poster mentioned, you should ask for high resolution pictures and if it’s never been serviced ask how it’s running and for timegrapher data (as you may need to service it upon receipt - no big deal, just factor it in).

A reason Jacek at Tropical Watch is well regarded is his high resolution and clear pictures.

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/search?q=16710

I messaged them about sending high res pictures earlier today. Still haven't received anything. I might be okay with something professional polished only once. I understand that it won't even be visible to my naked eye?

It's so hard navigating through Chrono24 trying to find something that fits my criteria. If you happen to find anything (in the EU), please tell me! :)

[SparklesMcgraw]

Good example of what the crown should look like when unpolished or had little to no polishing. Nice and sharp/deep. Almost all out there you can evidence of polishing. Not 100% but the clasp is an easy identifier. Also ensure the bracelet date codes match the watch etc..

https://chrono24.app/rolex/gmt-maste...AU&SETCURR=AUD

[Lord Tomato]

I found these three from a Danish seller. Any one care to see and tell me what you think? They're also supposedly "unpolished", even though the one with the black bezel just underwent service.

1 (black bezel from 2004), 2 (Pepsi from 2006) and 3 (stick dial from 2007).

I checked around a bit more and it seems like there was one more change during 2007, before the introduction of the 3186 caliber; the new type of warranty card. I'm just checking around to see if everything is otherwise the same between 2003-2007. :)

[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

I found these three from a Danish seller. Any one care to see and tell me what you think? They're also supposedly "unpolished", even though the one with the black bezel just underwent service.

1 (black bezel from 2004), 2 (Pepsi from 2006) and 3 (stick dial from 2007).

I checked around a bit more and it seems like there was one more change during 2007, before the introduction of the 3186 caliber; the new type of warranty card. I'm just checking around to see if everything is otherwise the same between 2003-2007. :)

I would not put any consideration towards “type of warranty card” - that has nothing to do with the watch, just the date/location sold.

Of those you posted (assuming you are in DK), I’d rank them:

1) 2004 LN Bezel
2) 2006 Faded Pepsi
3) 2007 Stick Dial (crown guards look a little softer in the pics).

As much as I love a faded Pepsi bezel, for the price difference I’d just buy the LN, and see if a local AD will sell you a Pepsi insert (and if not I’d buy from one of the regular sellers in TRF for ~$300-400).

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by PepsiBezel

I would not put any consideration towards “type of warranty card” - that has nothing to do with the watch, just the date/location sold.

Of those you posted (assuming you are in DK), I’d rank them:

1) 2004 LN Bezel
2) 2006 Faded Pepsi
3) 2007 Stick Dial (crown guards look a little softer in the pics).

As much as I love a faded Pepsi bezel, for the price difference I’d just buy the LN, and see if a local AD will sell you a Pepsi insert (and if not I’d buy from one of the regular sellers in TRF for ~$300-400).

Thanks. I thought the same. The faded Pepsi bezel is beautiful, but it’s be cheaper to source one from my AD and get my own patina on it. The black one has a different box too. Otherwise, I guess the watches are exactly the same?

Is the black one polished though? Would you say it’d be a good purchase?
The description says unpolished, which I don’t believe if it’s services recently.

Also, does Rolex still manufacture aluminum bezels, or are they sitting on a finite stock? Wondering how it’ll look in e.g. twenty years time when I’m looking for new bezels.

[PepsiBezel]

I’d not worry about 20 years down the road in 2023.

RSCs still stock aluminum bezels for 1675s, 16750s, 16710s, etc…

Yes, the LN has a box consistent with 2004. The LN is also advertised as serviced in 2023. The boxes don’t matter, the service does.

As I’ve stated before, it’s not possible to tell if “unpolished” and those with clear provenance of NOS are much much more expensive.

The 2004 (and 2006) appear to be in great condition for neo-vintage watches 15-20 years old.

You ultimately have to make the the decision.

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by PepsiBezel

I’d not worry about 20 years down the road in 2023.

RSCs still stock aluminum bezels for 1675s, 16750s, 16710s, etc…

Yes, the LN has a box consistent with 2004. The LN is also advertised as serviced in 2023. The boxes don’t matter, the service does.

As I’ve stated before, it’s not possible to tell if “unpolished” and those with clear provenance of NOS are much much more expensive.

The 2004 (and 2006) appear to be in great condition for neo-vintage watches 15-20 years old.

You ultimately have to make the the decision.

Thank you so much!

I have a hard time making a decision as I don't know if a watch clearly is polished or not. I am okay going with a watch that has been slightly polished, as an un-polished seems to be too pricey. That's why I need someone else with eyes that can see what's "good", so I don't go with something that is badly polished.

I guess the black bezel one would be a good deal? Cheaper compared to the faded bezels. I'd still have to buy new bezels as I'd like the patina to be my own. Also, recently serviced.

I also found this one (page is in Swedish, but you can see the photos). Slightly cheaper than the black one from the Danish seller, but without it's original certificate (box is included though). From 2005.

[PepsiBezel]

Photos with a white background and high white contrast, like on the Swedish site, make it very hard to assess the condition.

[SparklesMcgraw]

Yes indeed. Need full high res pics before committing to spending this much on a watch. Be patient. The black one does look pretty good but some better pics would be good too. Just try find one with as few dents around the lugs as possible.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

You're talking about the first gen ceramic GMTs? I thought all the ceramic GMTs utilize the maxi case. Although I don' think the first gen ceramic GMT comes with a pepsi bezel? That's the main bezel I'm looking for. :)

Just to clarify, whilst the ceramic GMTs do use the supecase ("maxi" refers to the dial) it's a different case to the 11 series Subs.

The midcase on the GMT is slightly thicker (deeper) than the subs and the lugs are thinner than the subs.

The 12 series brought further revisions (according to Rolex) to the GMT lugs. Many will argue there was no change but then some can't see the difference between an 11 Sub and a 12 Sub.

Its very subtle, the change, but the 12 series GMT case has, to my eyes, slightly reprofiled lugs to the 11 series GMT

[Lord Tomato]

One question regarding the care of an older watch with a 3185 caliber movement: My modern Rolexes don't really need to babied. I can wind them up whenever needed and don't need to care about not setting the time during certain hours because of the date wheel engaging (I've read that some watches might break if you try to change the time later during the day when the date wheel's getting ready to switch over). How'd I need to take care of it, or is it basically the same as a modern Rolex movement?

[Boaters]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

Would you say it’d be okay to go with a watch that might’ve perhaps been sent for service once and got polished? I have a very hard time distinguishing what’s polished and not.


I already have enough watches that are “simpler” in style, so a GMT would be a perfect addition. Also, I love the Pepsi bezel. An Air King wouldn’t be the same thing, not even close.


I messaged them and they told me it’s never been serviced, hence no polish. Although as mentioned, I can’t see what’s polished or not.

By the way IMPO the Glide-lock Is in NO-WAY Bulky. It is a blessing to the OMC clasp.

[Boaters]

Here is another one. By the way the Rolex 2100 Tool is by far the best ... But expensive no surprise for Rolex ... LOL ...

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by Boaters

By the way IMPO the Glide-lock Is in NO-WAY Bulky. It is a blessing to the OMC clasp.

It is, if you have tiny wrist like I do. ;) It takes up all the real estate beneath my wrist.

Also, regarding size: I haven't been able to actually try on a 16710 yet. I have tried on a 16713, which fit wonderfully. Otherwise, if we'd compare it to modern sport models, the current YM40 fits me well too. I guess that means that the 16710 will fit well?

[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

It is, if you have tiny wrist like I do. ;) It takes up all the real estate beneath my wrist.

Also, regarding size: I haven't been able to actually try on a 16710 yet. I have tried on a 16713, which fit wonderfully. Otherwise, if we'd compare it to modern sport models, the current YM40 fits me well too. I guess that means that the 16710 will fit well?

If the 16713 fit well, then the 16710 will fit well. As far as modern watches, yes I think the Yachtmaster is sort of similar.

[Lord Tomato]

Here’s a photo of the 16713 on my wrist. Felt so much better compared to a modern GMT I tried afterwards.

https://imgur.com/a/ion9TR7

I can’t seem to be able to embed the photo in the comment for some reason…

[PepsiBezel]

Looks great! I think you will really like the 16710, particularly on Jubilee.

[kegan]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

Here’s a photo of the 16713 on my wrist. Felt so much better compared to a modern GMT I tried afterwards.

https://imgur.com/a/ion9TR7

I can’t seem to be able to embed the photo in the comment for some reason…

This watch you tried on is not a 16713 but 16753 and it will have a lighter smaller feel than a 16710 because of its thinner case,bezel and acrylic crystal. If you want a watch that is going to wear like the one pictured the stainless version is a 16750.

[Lord Tomato]

Originally Posted by kegan

This watch you tried on is not a 16713 but 16753 and it will have a lighter smaller feel than a 16710 because of its thinner case,bezel and acrylic crystal. If you want a watch that is going to wear like the one pictured the stainless version is a 16750.

I see! Thank you! Would a 16710 be much larger, or still fit fine?

[kegan]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

I see! Thank you! Would a 16710 be much larger, or still fit fine?

Not larger just slightly heavier feeling. I would say the the old acrylic gmts compare to the 16710 like the 16710 compares to the modern ceramic pieces. It’s my opinion that a 16710 is the best gmt Rolex ever made and I don’t doubt you will love it. I just didn’t want you thinking that the watch you tried on was the exact same thing.

[PepsiBezel]

Originally Posted by Lord Tomato

One question regarding the care of an older watch with a 3185 caliber movement: My modern Rolexes don't really need to babied. I can wind them up whenever needed and don't need to care about not setting the time during certain hours because of the date wheel engaging (I've read that some watches might break if you try to change the time later during the day when the date wheel's getting ready to switch over). How'd I need to take care of it, or is it basically the same as a modern Rolex movement?

None of those old concerns apply to the 3185 (also as there is no quickset date in the 3185 or 3285). You can change the date at any time, you can set the time at any time, you can go forwards, backwards, etc. You aren’t going to break it.

[PepsiBezel]

E24A10D5-84A2-4980-A215-19A3A78F575F.jpeg

It’s easy to swap bezel inserts. I use a plastic IFixitIt pry bar ($2 on amazon) to pop off the entire bezel assembly. Then I pop out the bezel insert from the bezel.

In this pic, you can see the click spring at the 12 O’Clock. This pic shows the older shorter click spring. At some point Rolex switched to a longer click spring which I find works better.

[jbglx]

GMT-Master II 16710 had the 3186 only in the last year of production , 2007 and are found in "M" series only . That´s the reason for it´s premium price .
3186 have technical improvements over the 3185 , it uses what Rolex calls Parachrome Hairspring , wich is more resistant to magnetization ; this is important because of the increase of magnetic felds around us , for example cel phones , and security controls at airports .
And the other thing is that with the 3186 Rolex fixed the wiggle thing with the GMT hand when you move the hour hand .
I have a small wrist , so the pre-ceramics sports model fits me much better than the six digits ceramic ones , that are 42 mm wide .
Me myself have an Explorer II 16570 M series with the 3186 caliber , wich has GMT function .