Rolex with No box & papers

[rushca01]

If you’re buying from a reputable reseller the authenticity issue is a non issue. Let’s say a super clone does slip through, I guarantee they would make it right as they would never want the negativie publicity that comes with that. Again, buy from a reputable reseller and it’s a non issue.

Read negatives reviews on this forum, if someone posts a negative review believe you me the responsible party always finds there way to this forum to clear the air even if they are not regular members.

[Deppe]

Originally Posted by Ninja Master

I wouldn't. Have a look at some of the modern fakes. They're almost identical to genuine watches. Typically you need to open the case back to identify the fake movement, but even then the movements are now decorated to look like real movements, so you really need to know what you're doing.

I love this kind of thinking - “See how good some of the super fakes are these days, almost impossible to tell from the real thing. Lucky that they will absolutely not be able to fake a plastic card and a plastic box!!”.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by Deppe

I love this kind of thinking - “See how good some of the super fakes are these days, almost impossible to tell from the real thing. Lucky that they will absolutely not be able to fake a plastic card and a plastic box!!”.

Don't worry, this couldn't be further from the truth. Under the loupe, the "BEST" clones are quite easily distinguished as the trash that they are.

The real scary thing imo is high-end frankens.... you could end up with a "Genstein" - a watch that is genuine in every regard, but was "built" from parts off of many (different) stolen watches...

Yeah, sticking to my full-sets, thanks

[GrailTime]

What are you looking to buy?

If it is vintage or neo-vintage, papers will be harder to come by.

If it is within the last 5 years, i would be more sceptical as to why the box and papers are not with the watch. I dont think anyone disposes of box and papers now.

[vatey]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Don't worry, this couldn't be further from the truth. Under the loupe, the "BEST" clones are quite easily distinguished as the trash that they are.

The real scary thing imo is high-end frankens.... you could end up with a "Genstein" - a watch that is genuine in every regard, but was "built" from parts off of many (different) stolen watches...

Yeah, sticking to my full-sets, thanks

Could that be true with Full-sets?

[vatey]

Originally Posted by gaffs

What are you looking to buy?

If it is vintage or neo-vintage, papers will be harder to come by.

If it is within the last 5 years, i would be more sceptical as to why the box and papers are not with the watch. I dont think anyone disposes of box and papers now.

it is explorer 114270 I guess it is not vintage since it is 5-8 year before 214270 came.

[Crob1]

I personally feel the paper is more important than the box.
I can do without the paper but without the box, it's a NO.

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[amphr1]

Originally Posted by Crob1

I personally feel the paper is more important than the box.
I can do without the paper but without the box, it's a NO.

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You wanna write that again?

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[APhound]

Originally Posted by amphr1

You wanna write that again?

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lol.


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[TimeLord2]

Rolex will not even service most 4-digit references anymore. In fact they often won't replace a part unless the watch is running within specifications. If a watch is not within specs, it needs to be serviced before they will do anything. I took my 1973 GMT 1675/3 in for a potential service with Rolex Service Center in BH, CA and they had me "authenticate" the watch for a fee of $226 prior to even providing an estimate for service. They would not sell me a bezel insert without the authentication either. Yes, I did authenticate it and did get an estimate for service but chose to go independent instead. I suppose if you want service papers for older references, it will be hit or miss at this point and highly dependent on the RSC you chose to employ. The service estimate was good enough for many just two or three short years ago but I do think that ship has sailed. Without actually getting it serviced by Rolex and a 2-year warranty on top, most would not consider an authentication enough, IMHO. Oh, one more thing, after independent service, they did finally sell me an insert.

All of that said, If it is a relatively new watch papers should be available for a price but for me, not a necessity.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

Rolex will not even service most 4-digit references anymore. In fact they often won't replace a part unless the watch is running within specifications. If a watch is not within specs, it needs to be serviced before they will do anything. I took my 1973 GMT 1675/3 in for a potential service with Rolex Service Center in BH, CA and they had me "authenticate" the watch for a fee of $226 prior to even providing an estimate for service. They would not sell me a bezel insert without the authentication either. Yes, I did authenticate it and did get an estimate for service but chose to go independent instead. I suppose if you want service papers for older references, it will be hit or miss at this point and highly dependent on the RSC you chose to employ. The service estimate was good enough for many just two or three short years ago but I do think that ship has sailed. Without actually getting it serviced by Rolex and a 2-year warranty on top, most would not consider an authentication enough, IMHO. Oh, one more thing, after independent service, they did finally sell me an insert.

All of that said, If it is a relatively new watch papers should be available for a price but for me, not a necessity.

A $226 authentication from Rolex, without the need to pay $850+ for servicing, sounds like a good deal for those looking to sell or purchase a naked or full set watch.

I took a 1965 6694 Oysterdate to RSC a year ago. It has a manual movement. I was informed that they would need to send it to Geneva for servicing at a cost of around $1500, approximately double the cost of a regular service.

[WS9D]

Buy from a trusted seller, then u dont have to worry about papers. I would/have bought a piece from a trusted seller on here that didnt have papers. As the saying goes, buy the seller not the watch

[JR16]

If you are concerned about about authenticity, I recommend paying a little more and buying CPO.


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[agsstructures]

Originally Posted by WS9D

Buy from a trusted seller, then u dont have to worry about papers. I would/have bought a piece from a trusted seller on here that didnt have papers. As the saying goes, buy the seller not the watch

My thoughts exactly

[Travis29]

Full set piece of kind. Hard to resell a watch without it.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by JR16

If you are concerned about about authenticity, I recommend paying a little more and buying CPO.


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Absolutely this. So much fear of superclones and Frankenwatches and fretting about boxes and papers, CPO provides a guarantee of authenticity and a warranty with a new warranty card and new box and provenance from Rolex. Yes in many cases they cost more but ask yourself how much is peace of mind worth to you.

[94chas]

Make sure the serial number on the paperwork matches the serial number of the watch

[forg]

If you're absolutely committed to keeping the watch forever and have no plans to sell it, investing in a timepiece without its original box and papers can offer significant savings, provided you purchase from a trustworthy seller. However, if there's even a slight chance you may part ways with it in the future, it's prudent to select a watch that comes complete with its box and papers for added resale value and authenticity assurance

[Ninja Master]

Originally Posted by Deppe

I love this kind of thinking - “See how good some of the super fakes are these days, almost impossible to tell from the real thing. Lucky that they will absolutely not be able to fake a plastic card and a plastic box!!”.

The box is usually the giveaway! That's probably part of the reason scammers don't like to include the box, as the fakes are bad.

Of course, they could purchase and use a real box, but usually scammers aren't that sophisticated.

[kwingy]

If you know the watch is 100% legit at a great price and you plan to keep and wear maybe forever then personally having box and papers is not a big deal in this situation. It's only if you plan to sell it on that it troublesome.

[brandrea]

When I buy a watch I prefer a full set, YMMV

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by vatey

Could that be true with Full-sets?

Hypothetically speaking, yes it can. But the odds are astronomically low, i would think. One would need the original warranty paper along with the original case to make the watch correct.

Stolen watches are nearly always reported as such, and often taken off-wrist of victims or taken in home invasions etc., so unlikely a thief will get a watch along with it's corresponding paperwork.

Many stolen watches surface in Italy and other "watch-crime" hubs where they are stripped for parts and sold individually.

In conclusion, and to re-iterate. I think it EXTREMELY unlikely that one would find a genstein watch with matching paperwork to make the watch appear like a full-set. The only way I see this is if the watch case is aftermarket, or is a gen that has been re-engraved. Either way, an expert will be able to tell with good accuracy. While nothing is 100%, this is your best bet in terms of buying pre-owned. Of course, buy the seller, do your research, check to make sure that build dates and clasp/end-link/case engravings are correct and of the right period, as well as movement etc. If everything looks right, it is right. If anything looks out of place, even slightly, further probing is required.

[vatey]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

Hypothetically speaking, yes it can. But the odds are astronomically low, i would think. One would need the original warranty paper along with the original case to make the watch correct.

Stolen watches are nearly always reported as such, and often taken off-wrist of victims or taken in home invasions etc., so unlikely a thief will get a watch along with it's corresponding paperwork.

Many stolen watches surface in Italy and other "watch-crime" hubs where they are stripped for parts and sold individually.

In conclusion, and to re-iterate. I think it EXTREMELY unlikely that one would find a genstein watch with matching paperwork to make the watch appear like a full-set. The only way I see this is if the watch case is aftermarket, or is a gen that has been re-engraved. Either way, an expert will be able to tell with good accuracy. While nothing is 100%, this is your best bet in terms of buying pre-owned. Of course, buy the seller, do your research, check to make sure that build dates and clasp/end-link/case engravings are correct and of the right period, as well as movement etc. If everything looks right, it is right. If anything looks out of place, even slightly, further probing is required.

Not sure if that is true or not, but the super clone nowadays is very good, they come with Box, paper and warranty card with RFID that can be scanned and redirect to Rolex website. The only flaw on that is it won't go to right product as the watch you get, as claimed by that user. I guess it would be hard to get those to make it completed set. So you are right, buy the seller not the watch.

[Calatrava r]

Virtually all the watches you see advertised for sale online are used. Most watches being sold without box and papers are older and the original owners lost them. I would steer clear of newer watches, those less than three years old, which are not complete unless the price adequately reflects the lack of a full kit. Otherwise, it is not worth the headache. And any money you save buying a naked watch will be a lot less than you will lose when you try to sell that watch without B&P.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by vatey

Not sure if that is true or not, but the super clone nowadays is very good, they come with Box, paper and warranty card with RFID that can be scanned and redirect to Rolex website. The only flaw on that is it won't go to right product as the watch you get, as claimed by that user. I guess it would be hard to get those to make it completed set. So you are right, buy the seller not the watch.

Understood, but all moot points, I'm afraid, mate. Perhaps I misinterpreted your initial question.

I am talking about "Genstein" watches, however - watches made from ENTIRELY genuine Rolex parts off of multiple (very likely stolen) rolex watches. This, I argue, would be highly unlikely for a prospective buyer of a used rolex to come across, even more so if that watch in question had matching (and genuine) paperwork to the "genstein" case.

Perhaps to the untrained eye, the "superclones" look good from a distance, and even up close. Under the loupe, however, I assure you that anyone with any experience at all owning gen Rolex will see the differences immediately - without needing the genuine counterpart next to the "clone" to see them.

It's not even close at 10x magnification. At 50x it's an absolute joke. Same with the warranty cards. Once you realize that it simply isn't possible to machine and finish components to such a high level and within such tight tolerances for the production cost of what I would imagine is a hundred dollars or so, you realize that it won't ever be the case that "clone" watches could realistically come close to the genuine variants. The financial incentives just aren't there to do so. Economically, it doesn't make any sense.

To the naked eye, these clones look "very good" as you suggest. But I implore you to have a look at one under the loupe. Pure garbage, and easily distinguished.

lol, superclones

[LDN]

New model pieces with no paper is a risk of super clone fake! Don’t ever go there u less you are 100% of seller reputation.

[thatswhatshesaid]

Originally Posted by PBJ1925

No papers no buy for me. Boxes aren't a huge deal, unless tied to a special edition (I.E. AP, Patek, etc..). Personally speaking at a stretch, maybe recent RSC service papers could be considered depending on model.

The problem is that fake warranty cards and RSC cards can be bought and can be customized to match a specific serial number.

[thatswhatshesaid]

Originally Posted by LDN

New model pieces with no paper is a risk of super clone fake! Don’t ever go there u less you are 100% of seller reputation.

See my above post about fake warranty cards.
Further, there is one case that I'm aware of a case where a well known trusted seller accidentally sold a super clone to a buyer. RSC discovered the fake when it was sent in shortly after purchase because of a time keeping issue.

To the sellers credit, he gave a full refund but that goes to show how good some of these clones are.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Rolexken

For a newish watch I would want a full set or a damn good reason why not. Who throws away their box as just packaging these days? I even have my G Shock tin…..

Same here. G-Shock tins are great for travelling with an expensive watch. They're tough, well padded and deter thieves

[worldfamoussam]

I always find myself very embarrassed when I show up to a nice dinner wearing my watch without the box and papers on. I can't stand to be underdressed!