Hot Water: A Fix for Slow 32xx Movements?

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Migration of lubricants and epilames has been discussed as a possibility to explain the 32xx low amplitude issue. But … I can't see that a rather high temperature would reverse such migration effect, i.e., why, after migration, lubricants would move back to their required locations? The contrary could happen with too high temperature, lubricants migrate all over the caliber?

But who knows, a small fraction of lubicrants might migrate back to completely dry caliber locations yielding to a temporary improvement. For this to happen many properties would play a role, including temperature and duration, caliber geometry, physical prooerties of the lubricants and many more. Tribology is a very complex physics topic.

To your point, my Datejust 41 just came back from service and this is exactly what they cited, the migration of lubricants.

They claimed that I had banged the crown into something very hard and that is the reason it occurred. They cited the lubricants being out of place as evidence of me banging into something. I doubt that actually occurred, however there was no damage to the crown noted by either myself or the AD before we sent it. Additionally, if the watch is so delicate that they can cite that particularly it makes me a bit curious.

But a full service for $40. I’ll take it I guess….

[forcinitijp]

You can also give him a massage, with that he will relax and he will probably be less stressed!

[forcinitijp]

Originally Posted by winst

Really Cool!

Didn't you try with nitrogen? I read over there that it does wonders!

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by Jackie Daytona

To your point, my Datejust 41 just came back from service and this is exactly what they cited, the migration of lubricants.

They claimed that I had banged the crown into something very hard and that is the reason it occurred. They cited the lubricants being out of place as evidence of me banging into something. I doubt that actually occurred, however there was no damage to the crown noted by either myself or the AD before we sent it. Additionally, if the watch is so delicate that they can cite that particularly it makes me a bit curious.

But a full service for $40. I’ll take it I guess….

What was the $40 for, if you don't mind my asking?

[TickTockChuck]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The 32xx lift angle is 53 degrees. Join the long thread and I will guide you through the rather simple measurement procedure … What you did is interesting to me, also how long this kind of temporary fix holds.

Saxo3, I don't think anyone has said it, but thanks for all your thoughtful responses in this thread. Cheers.

[Easy E]

Ok, I got it….check it out. If the 32s do better when worn, and heat alleviates the slow down, how about a watch winder with a built in heating element? Yo! I’ll call it the Easy Max 2000. I think my ship just came in.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TickTockChuck

Saxo3, I don't think anyone has said it, but thanks for all your thoughtful responses in this thread. Cheers.

Thank you Chuck.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Jackie Daytona

…They cited the lubricants being out of place as evidence of me banging into something...

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by codecow

Agreed.

I have chimed in on some of those threads in the past. Everyone has a phone in their pocket and it’s simple to get an atomic clock sync app so you have perfectly accurate time always unless you lose internet access.

I use such an app to set a watch when I pick it up to wear it. If it’s not losing minutes over a few days (ex time is off from phone such that I notice) then the watch is working. If it is off, it’s broken.

If the power reserve is such it can’t keep power when wound each day, then it’s broken.

All this other stuff is dumb. If accuracy is important there are MANY MANY better choices than traditional mechanical watches.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that some of what you are saying is contradictory.

We do need to be mindful of the possibility that people spend serious money on these things for various reasons of their own.
Then there is the backdrop of Rolex accuracy claims of the Superlative Chronometer watch, longer service intervals, lists of patents on the technology to make it all happen, etc.
Yes, most of us have access to better timekeeping instruments, but if a person isn't getting what they paid for and when out of warranty they have to pay to restore the watch to proper functality before it's supposedly due, then that speaks seriously to the quality of the item and the manufacture.
You mention a watch being "broken" a number of times and give some examples of what constitutes broken.
Others may disagree, especially if they've paid with their hard earned $s as to whether the item is broken or not.
I put it to you that Rolex themselves would agree that the watch not running to specifications is broken. After all, they will accept it when submitted for a warranty claim and restore it to proper functionality if the Amplitude and or timekeeping is off.

This business of comparing watches to cars is really way off sometimes.
After all, how many people here on the forum or in your orbit service their own mechanical watch?
Then compare that with the number of people you know that work on their own cars.
On the other side of it. I imagine that if a car wasn't running right or isn't safe to drive on the road it would be handed over to a professional with the tools and expertise to put it right, not over a small variation in fuel economy standards that are established as a result of strict test criteria.
Your mileage may vary

[SearChart]

[codecow]

Number of people I know who work their own cars, one. My friend’s brother who is a professional mechanic.

Number of people I know who work on their own watches, zero.

A mechanical watch that keeps time to spec is still worse than something like a spring drive or quartz watch and definitely inferior to your phone. Citizen makes a model where the accuracy deviation is seconds in a year.

Unless you’re sitting there with a machine that checks rate and amplitude would you even notice other than sometimes you need to correct the time? And even with say +10 seconds a day, it’s going to be a week before the minute is wrong.

So yeah, since if you get it to +2 then you set it in a month rather than in a week, which you need to do anyway unless you have a normal calendar.

For those of us with manual wind watches (not Rolex) we’re winding them every day or every other day.

If you’re bent out of shape over 2 seconds because of some paint on the dial, you can be mad and post about it but I can also suggest it’s silly.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally Posted by Pepperjack

What was the $40 for, if you don't mind my asking?

No worries at all.

I believe they stated to replace the crown tube. The receipt was kinda vague even honestly. I’ll look again in a moment. Essentially they said they would service for free as long as I paid for whatever with the crown was mysteriously damaged.

[Chacend]

Sounds a little sketch

[Tim Plains]

Didn't Archer, an actual watchmaker, explain in detail that the 32xx issues are due to the overly thin mainspring and barrel?

[mrmahdi]

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

Here’s the thing. Part of the reason I have paid tens of thousands of dollars for Rolex watches it the advertised accuracy AS well as the expectations that watch hold the advertised accuracy for longer than a few months or a couple years. Why is this such a touchy subject for people in this forum? IF YoU WaNT AcCURaCY GET a QUArTZ. Nah fam if I pay almost 12 grand for a watch that comes with a tag that clearly states +2/-2 seconds per day for at least 5 years and I have personally had 2 of those watches go wayyyyy out of those specs within months then I have every right to be upset and want some sort of explanation. It would just be real nice to have a constructive conversation about it. Do I think soaking a watch in hot water is gonna fix it? Of course not. BUT that could have information in there to point in the right direction of figuring out why some of these movements (not all of them) do not run right. It’s a pain dealing with it. You get excited about a watch and then you have to let it go for weeks or months to get it fixed hoping that it holds time past the warranty because it’s messed up to pay $900 to service a watch that was a dud from the beginning.

Totally agree. The whole “why not get a quartz if you want accuracy” crowd is getting annoying to be honest. I get it from the point of view of being OCD from someone being overly concerned about a watch being slightly out of spec. But if someone advertises something to be at a certain level of performance and that said object isn’t performing at that level, what’s wrong in pointing that out and seeking answers and resolution? Especially if it’s WAY OUT of spec.

I already know how many seconds are in a day after being told the umpteenth time.

I just hope the “why are you so worried about losing/gaining a few seconds” crowd allow us to voice our concerns in peace without lecturing us how “trivial” it is addressing accuracy issues from a brand that clearly advertises accuracy.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by mrmahdi

Totally agree. The whole “why not get a quartz if you want accuracy” crowd is getting annoying to be honest. I get it from the point of view of being OCD from someone being overly concerned about a watch being slightly out of spec. But if someone advertises something to be at a certain level of performance and that said object isn’t performing at that level, what’s wrong in pointing that out and seeking answers and resolution? Especially if it’s WAY OUT of spec.

I already know how many seconds are in a day after being told the umpteenth time.

I just hope the “why are you so worried about losing/gaining a few seconds” crowd allow us to voice our concerns in peace without lecturing us how “trivial” it is addressing accuracy issues from a brand that clearly advertises accuracy.

Again, mechanical watches have issues and they break.

If regulating your watch is something you want to do, send it in, or find a watchmaker who can do it.

Submerging your watch in hot water to try and fix the deviation seems silly.

This article sums up accuracy pretty well especially the conclusion. https://beckertime.com/the-accuracy-...grain-of-salt/

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by codecow

If a movement is running too fast, submerge in a bowl of warm milk. It will make it sleepy and therefore run slower.

OMG this TOTALLY now makes sense. i was wondering why..... You see, the bottle of VIAGRA on my nightstand spilled onto the G-Shock, and so now it (insert your own joke here).

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Agree Bas but Plus read on the net that by hanging upside down twice a day for 2 minutes with any 32 series movement on the wrist, it will cure this terrible thing that it might slow down a few seconds off spec.

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by codecow

Again, mechanical watches have issues and they break.

Some movements more than others.

*cough*

[Kevin of Larchmont]

If hot water was the fix then one would think that ADs would simply have a baptismal font that they could bathe a 32XX watch in whenever one underperformed. It seems more complicated than that though.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

If hot water was the fix then one would think that ADs would simply have a baptismal font that they could bathe a 32XX watch in whenever one underperformed. It seems more complicated than that though.

Were it so, then any oven set to 200°-ish would do the same.


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[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by 77T

Were it so, then any oven set to 200°-ish would do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Amen, but could they bless the oven like they bless the water?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by 77T

Were it so, then any oven set to 200°-ish would do the same.

It's summertime here in the west. Just wear your watch outside and it will heat up more than a bowl of water.

Or just wear it in the Sauna or Hot Tub. You're welcome.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Tools

It's summertime here in the west. Just wear your watch outside and it will heat up more than a bowl of water.

Or just wear it in the Sauna or Hot Tub. You're welcome.

In the heat a watch will not warm up very much but remain rather close to the body temperature as the watch is thermalized by the arm via its skin. The same principle applies in the cold.

[77T]

Rolex used to boil their watches to get all the lube distributed

And this guy wore his while wading into oil rig fires.


There, I said it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[mrmahdi]

Originally Posted by Jackie Daytona

To your point, my Datejust 41 just came back from service and this is exactly what they cited, the migration of lubricants.

They claimed that I had banged the crown into something very hard and that is the reason it occurred. They cited the lubricants being out of place as evidence of me banging into something. I doubt that actually occurred, however there was no damage to the crown noted by either myself or the AD before we sent it. Additionally, if the watch is so delicate that they can cite that particularly it makes me a bit curious.

But a full service for $40. I’ll take it I guess….

Is your watch being serviced by Rolex or by an independent watchmaker?

[amphr1]

I didn't have time to read every single post here, but it does seem to make some sense to me. I know that one of my Rolex is deadly accurate if I wear it all day but will be slow 2 to 3 seconds a day if it stays in my watch box. I do take hot shower with my watch regularly but never kept it in warm water for an extended period of time. Maybe I will give this a try.

Sent from my SM-S918U1 using Tapatalk

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by mrmahdi

Totally agree. The whole “why not get a quartz if you want accuracy” crowd is getting annoying to be honest. I get it from the point of view of being OCD from someone being overly concerned about a watch being slightly out of spec. But if someone advertises something to be at a certain level of performance and that said object isn’t performing at that level, what’s wrong in pointing that out and seeking answers and resolution? Especially if it’s WAY OUT of spec.

I already know how many seconds are in a day after being told the umpteenth time.

I just hope the “why are you so worried about losing/gaining a few seconds” crowd allow us to voice our concerns in peace without lecturing us how “trivial” it is addressing accuracy issues from a brand that clearly advertises accuracy.

Well said

It's a put down or downright condecending on a number of levels as if one has some kind of mental or emotional deficiency.
Those that put COSC specs forward as an acceptable standard that anyone that hasn't got any of the above deficiency issues possibly could be able to look at it from another perspective.
What would they say about their COSC watch movement if it was running 20 or 30 seconds or in some cases even more seconds per day slower than the COSC specs and getting progressively worse when they paid serious $s for the watch and they full well know they could've bought a Seiko or some other brand at a similar price point straight out of a jeweller anywhere down the road and at a discount(without the wait list/expression of interest palava) and get better overall performance
We all know now that in some cases the timekeeping can start out just fine and in accordance with reasonable expectations then quite rapidly decline until it falls of a cliff.

[mrmahdi]

Originally Posted by amphr1

I didn't have time to read every single post here, but it does seem to make some sense to me. I know that one of my Rolex is deadly accurate if I wear it all day but will be slow 2 to 3 seconds a day if it stays in my watch box. I do take hot shower with my watch regularly but never kept it in warm water for an extended period of time. Maybe I will give this a try.

Sent from my SM-S918U1 using Tapatalk

Wearing it all day with amazing accuracy and it losing seconds when in resting position is quite impressive. Depending on the resting position, it can lose seconds and that’s absolutely normal.

[mrmahdi]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Well said

It's a put down or downright condecending on a number of levels as if one has some kind of mental or emotional deficiency.
Those that put COSC specs forward as an acceptable standard that anyone that hasn't got any of the above deficiency issues possibly could be able to look at it from another perspective.
What would they say about their COSC watch movement if it was running 20 or 30 seconds or in some cases even more seconds per day slower than the COSC specs and getting progressively worse when they paid serious $s for the watch and they full well know they could've bought a Seiko or some other brand at a similar price point straight out of a jeweller anywhere down the road and at a discount(without the wait list/expression of interest palava) and get better overall performance

Totally agree 👍🏽.

I still want to know what triggers some people to trivialize people’s concern about what a company ADVERTISES as a selling point for a lot of people. Sure, some people might go overboard and be OCD about it, but some people in this forum just feel compelled to be dismissive, condescending and even outright disrespectful every time a person addresses accuracy issues with their watch.

As you stated, we paid a lot of money for something that is advertised as accurate to then not be accurate. We have the right to express our concerns without people mocking us and making us out to be crazy. I don’t mind constructive criticism and feedback, but to the point of condescension and even rudeness is where I draw the line.

At the end of the day, we are all different. Some don’t care about accuracy at all. Others do. We don’t have agree with each other, but we all should be respectful.