Porche for beginners

[scarlet knight]

Thank you all for your comments. You informed me about things about which I was unaware. I expected a gaggle of Porsche enthusiasts here and I was correct!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

Thank you all for your comments. You informed me about things about which I was unaware. I expected a gaggle of Porsche enthusiasts here and I was correct!

I agree with you, except for the nonsense in post 19.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I agree with you, except for the nonsense in post 19.

Nonsense?

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Nonsense?

Post 19 is a bit uncalled for, saying 90% of manual transmission Porsche drivers don’t know how to shift gears. Perhaps poster was referring to themselves with a bit of self-deprecating humor. Perhaps not.

In my experience Porsche buyers who opt for stick are generally “legitimate” drivers, at least relative to the broader sports car driving population. Heel-toe accommodation (pedal positioning) in 911s is set for track / spirited driving (unlike BMW). Also, the manual premium is still pretty modest for most models, reducing the pure collector base of buyers.

Back on topic, I think OP should try a 911 first. Go from there.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

Post 19 is a bit uncalled for, saying 90% of manual transmission Porsche drivers don’t know how to shift gears. Perhaps poster was referring to themselves with a bit of self-deprecating humor. Perhaps not.

In my experience Porsche buyers who opt for stick are generally “legitimate” drivers, at least relative to the broader sports car driving population. Heel-toe accommodation (pedal positioning) in 911s is set for track / spirited driving (unlike BMW). Also, the manual premium is still pretty modest for most models, reducing the pure collector base of buyers.

Back on topic, I think OP should try a 911 first. Go from there.

Just a quick correction, the 911s started auto blips on downshifts on manual cars with the 991 variant (I believe about midyear 2013) leaving the art of driver induced heel toe on 997 and earlier cars.

Agree that the drivers who opt for the manual on Porsches do so by choice and are quite competent and prefer to "row on their own". The PDKs are faster for sure, but there's something about performing a couple downshifts whilst blipping the throttle to match revs that is so very satisfying!

[7sins]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

Post 19 is a bit uncalled for, saying 90% of manual transmission Porsche drivers don’t know how to shift gears. Perhaps poster was referring to themselves with a bit of self-deprecating humor. Perhaps not.

In my experience Porsche buyers who opt for stick are generally “legitimate” drivers, at least relative to the broader sports car driving population. Heel-toe accommodation (pedal positioning) in 911s is set for track / spirited driving (unlike BMW). Also, the manual premium is still pretty modest for most models, reducing the pure collector base of buyers.

Back on topic, I think OP should try a 911 first. Go from there.

Spot on!

OR go air cooled 993 turbo, all manual and well before PDK was introduced. Problem solved! A true analog and visceral experience, truly the 911 at its absolute peak. That's the only Porsche you'd find me in, except short of a 959 of course but that doesn't qualify.

[GB-man]

Lots of solid advice here. Your budget is strong in this market. I’d say a macan GTS sounds like a good fit. If you think you can climb in and out of a 911 just do it. The list of people who regret their 911 is shorter than Danny Devito standing next to Yao Ming.

[biknut]

I went with a 22' Macan S and am very happy with it; custom ordered in Sept 21' arrived in March. Didn't think the GTS was worth it for a fraction faster 0-60 time and worse fuel milage--S was $10k cheaper for my spec. It has plenty of room and fits a bicycle with the rear seats folded down. Absolutely get the air bag suspension for that P-car handling. Could have gone for a third 911tt but getting older and stiffer was becoming an issue and anyway I'm trying to grow up and not be such a motorhead. Will probably order another S this fall unless tariffs are a killer.

[Calatrava r]

If you cannot swing a 911 due to not being able to get in and out, I would pass on the other Porsche models and get something else. Overall, the brand is high cost, high maintenance and tires which wear through quickly. It is well built but like any sports car line needs a lot of love and attention. It is all worth to me for a 911 if it's not your daily driver, but for the other stuff. No way.

I have owned four 911s and never has a problem with any of them. So build is not an issue.

[Spartacus]

I’m a big Porsche guy as are my family and friends. For a newbie, I would not recommend an older 911 and generally anything older. Save those for your second or third Porsche. While there are great buys out there, pricing, models, condition can be deceptive. And worse, a service, rebuild or replacement part can be extraordinarily expensive. If you don’t “know a guy” or are personally performing the work, go new, or CPO.

A “comfortable” starter Porsche which will do everything well is a Macan but it must be spec’d at a GTS (sporty) or Turbo and above model to fully scratch the “Porsche itch” - it’s a quick and practical vehicle, more agile and sporty than a Cayenne and far more propane forgiving than a 911.

I do not recommend a 911 and certainly not any other two door variants If lower cars are difficult to enter and exist. Whoever is recommending a Boxster either hasn’t had one or completely missed the Original Post. Generally the boxter and cayman are not daily drivers, these are pure weekend sports cars, with minimal storage space but maximum road feel and experience.

Porsche makes reliable sporty vehicles, I’ve had a few now and they have been a pleasure to drive, very reliable and generally easy to own, especially with annual service. Different from our Lexus which seems to be in for whatever reason 2-3 times a year.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I’m a big Porsche guy as are my family and friends. For a newbie, I would not recommend an older 911 and generally anything older. Save those for your second or third Porsche. While there are great buys out there, pricing, models, condition can be deceptive. And worse, a service, rebuild or replacement part can be extraordinarily expensive. If you don’t “know a guy” or are personally performing the work, go new, or CPO.

A “comfortable” starter Porsche which will do everything well is a Macan but it must be spec’d at a GTS (sporty) or Turbo and above model to fully scratch the “Porsche itch” - it’s a quick and practical vehicle, more agile and sporty than a Cayenne and far more propane forgiving than a 911.

I do not recommend a 911 and certainly not any other two door variants If lower cars are difficult to enter and exist. Whoever is recommending a Boxster either hasn’t had one or completely missed the Original Post. Generally the boxter and cayman are not daily drivers, these are pure weekend sports cars, with minimal storage space but maximum road feel and experience.

Porsche makes reliable sporty vehicles, I’ve had a few now and they have been a pleasure to drive, very reliable and generally easy to own, especially with annual service. Different from our Lexus which seems to be in for whatever reason 2-3 times a year.

yeah absolutely would never get a used sports car for a one and only/daily, learned that the hard way. any minor thing or replacement adds up so fast even if you barely drive it and the condition is good, and the labor ends up costing multiples of the replacement parts. just a complete never ending headache. i get it if you have some kind of SUV as a daily driver and get a used 911 for some fun but i've seen what happens to people go that route for a daily. have a friend who got a pretty clean 991 with like 60k miles after doing tons of research, and got rid of it a year later after barely driving it yet having maintenance costs pile up

if i was OP i would just lease and enjoy a brand new car for 3 years and move on. use the rest of the money on whatever else

[dk65]

Originally Posted by huncho

have a friend who got a pretty clean 991 with like 60k miles after doing tons of research, and got rid of it a year later after barely driving it yet having maintenance costs pile up

Typical 911 costs, in my world: 1 set of tires per year at $2k, one service trip at $3k (average), one set of brakes every other year at $3k... all told it's probably an average of $6k-ish per year in ownership costs. I'm probably 10k miles per year in a 911. That's outside of insurance costs, which are marginal in my case, as I own a few other vehicles and the way my policy stacks up, the 911 doesn't add much. My state also collects annual property tax on cars, and the 911 is about $2k/year.

Add a set of winter wheels/tires at $6k if your climate requires them... these cars are amazeballs in the winter on proper tires.

It adds up. But it's oh so fun to drive.

I will add: there has never been a major, unexpected expense with any Porsche I've owned. No major breakdowns or failures. This includes a 250k-mile Macan S. They're well built cars but expect regular care and feeding.

[dk65]

Re: auto blip: believe this is user selectable in pcm5 911's... 2020-2022 (ish). With pcm6, it's only selectable by mode, sport or sport plus. In sport or sport plus, the driver can heel/toe and as long as it's close, the car doesn't do anything. If the driver is way off, the car will correct it.

991/992 are not a good car for those that aren't limber. If dead set on a 911, perhaps seek one with 18 way seats and easy entry. My 992 is 4 way manual seats to get the seat lower/more headroom, and I am essentially doing a no-hands get-up every time I am in or out of the car. Fortunately I do OK with this, but others that try who aren't as limber will basically crash land into the car, and need help to exit.

Newer Panameras also have air suspension that raises the entire car for easy entry/exit. Those cars are a technological marvel; quite a luxurious experience.

Macan is a great choice and CPO cars are available readily at reasonable prices. A most excellent gateway drug... the Sub Date of the Porsche world. Small SUV height = easy in and out. VAG engine = reliable, (relatively) inexpensive to service. PDK gearbox = F awesome. Sporty handling. AWD, excellent in all weather. A great choice for a daily.

Just my $0.02. Have owned a couple Macans and a few 911's. Have driven everything from Macan to Cayenne to Panamera to GT3 and GT4.

An air cooled car is not a good choice for a first Porsche or a daily driver.

[dk65]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

As my Mercedes C300 reaches year one, I am fantasizing about a Porsche as my next car.

I am in the post retirement crowd, so getting in and out of something very low is a no go. I am embarrassed to admit that I am unable to manually shift, so that is out. Also, I would be looking at less expensive models. Let’s call $150k a cap, under $100k better if possible.

I’ve seen a lot of Porsches in the Car Talk thread. Any recommendations for a newbie?

Assuming you want a daily driver, only car:

My suggestion after traveling a similar journey would be to go test drive a couple year old, certified preowned, Macan S. And go from there. If it's too big, see if you can find a Panamera. If the Macan is too small, find a Cayenne S.

All of those take a pretty significant depreciation hit in the first two years. CPO cars have an extended factory warranty, no doubt the dealer will educate on this. Thus, couple year preowned is the sweet spot.

[biknut]

All well said, dk65! I've tried to like the Panamera for several years but the side profile is a turn off (YMMV) and it's over a foot longer than the Macan. Once had one as a loaner and turbo lag was annoying though I'm sure that's been worked out in recent years. Talk about difficult entry/exit, the Carrera GT has a door sill that seems about a foot wide and coupled with it's low stance--like doing the limbo getting in that car.

[SDGT3]

Panamera is a nice car but the routine maintenance costs are through the roof (research). CPO is a good way to get peace of mind at a good price point with Porsches.

[Speedbird-1]

Spelling lessons!

[scarlet knight]

CPO Macan S sounds like a winner or a lease.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

CPO Macan S sounds like a winner or a lease.

You will love it.

[Wingman244]

I had a Cayman in my 50’s, was pretty fit. Hard to get in and out. Fun, great car. Bang for the buck.

[BETRNSX]

Porsches are nice, 911 or Cayenne. But another thought, Mercedes AMG GT or SL.

While 911s are fantastic, everyone has one, not unique, average person won't know a base from a turbo from a GT3.

If resale and value are important then get a 911 or something used, otherwise you will get hammered.

[elau1958]

Originally Posted by BETRNSX

Porsches are nice, 911 or Cayenne. But another thought, Mercedes AMG GT or SL.

While 911s are fantastic, everyone has one, not unique, average person won't know a base from a turbo from a GT3.

If resale and value are important then get a 911 or something used, otherwise you will get hammered.

Get the 911. More specifically the 997 generation if you can find a decent example, the last of the analog.

I also have a SL and its no comparison to a 911. It's a nice cruiser and that's about it. I don't even bother to put the top down here in Maryland. Too damn hot and not very fond of getting sun burned all the time.

AMG GT drives nice but it remains me of the American Muscle, not to mention you will take a bath on the resale.

[biknut]

Originally Posted by elau1958

Get the 911. More specifically the 997 generation if you can find a decent example, the last of the analog.

I also have a SL and its no comparison to a 911. It's a nice cruiser and that's about it. I don't even bother to put the top down here in Maryland. Too damn hot and not very fond of getting sun burned all the time.

AMG GT drives nice but it remains me of the American Muscle, not to mention you will take a bath on the resale.

Exact quote from the OP, is nobody reading his first post?

"I am in the post retirement crowd, so getting in and out of something very low is a no go."

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by BETRNSX

While 911s are fantastic, everyone has one, not unique, average person won't know a base from a turbo from a GT3.
.

Why on earth would buy a car based on what the average person knows or doesn’t?

[7sins]

OP can we get an update here?

May I suggest looking at a CPO Aston Martin DB11? This is an incredibly comfortable grand tourer that will be easy to get in and out of. Well under your budget, I see the V12 coupes going for ~$100k these days. If you go the V8 route, these are sourced from AMG and are bulletproof. The only downside is the tech which uses an outdated MB infotainment. Arguably one of the best looking cars in the last decade and something different than the many 911 and SLs you see on the road.

[Tricolore66]

I have 2 911’s but my daily is a Macan GTS. If you don’t want something low I’d consider a Macan GTS or Turbo. I enjoy mine as much as I do the 911’s and it’s far more versatile. Try putting 8 bags of topsoil in a GT3!

[7sins]

Different strokes for different folks! I'd rather my cash not be locked up in something earning 0%, if you lend against your securities then you own the car or underlying asset as the loan is backed by the securities not the car. I can definitely see the appeal of being completely debt and stress free too, can't over leverage yourself that way. Just my .02, different approach that isn’t for everyone.