Have the issues with the 4401/4404 movement been solved?

[gretch6364]

Has there been any discussion what is causing the issue? Something that even after being fixed happens again?

[In-N-Out]

Took my 26240st out of the bank for the first time in a year. Well what do you know! I have this issue too

[AEV]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

Took my 26240st out of the bank for the first time in a year. Well what do you know! I have this issue too

Does the minute hand move when you reset the chronograph?
If it does - you have it, if not - then it is just not perfectly aligned.
I think this is what came out as an outcome of the discussion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rollieo]

Been digging into this because I’m considering a ROO chrono. Here’s my take:

What’s the problem: subdial creep with the minute and hour hand counters. Basically this means when the chrono is not engaged, you’ll get “creep” where the counter moves forward over time.

How big is the problem: it seems incredibly wide spread. In a recent poll here, about 70% of users reported having the problem.

Is it fixed: doesn’t seem so. There’s been folks reporting issues as recent as 2024 releases, and people who send their watch back may require multiple times to send it back to fix it.

What’s the reason for the problem: this one is more tricky. I’ve been researching chrono movements, the 4401/4404 movement specifically, and why this could be happening. In short, it seems that because AP went with a continuously driven counter with on the chrono with flyback function, the spring that holds the chrono wheel in place needs to fall within a very narrow window of force. Too much and you drag the system reducing power reserve and a jerky chrono engagement, too little and you have this subdial creep issue. Other chronos like the Daytona have a jumping minute hand (you see the minute jump after it passes 60 second mark). So the spring used can be a higher tension without issue - ie you have a bigger window for the spring force.

My guess is there is a window that works for the spring, but it’s hard for AP to ensure all watches fit it. It might even be watch specific based on how the rest of the movement is built.

I’m doing the RO masterclass in Le Brassus at the end of the year, I’m going to ask the watchmaker what his thoughts are and whether the issue has a permanent fix. Hopefully will be convinced, otherwise going to take the chrono off my list.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

Been digging into this because I’m considering a ROO chrono. Here’s my take:

What’s the problem: subdial creep with the minute and hour hand counters. Basically this means when the chrono is not engaged, you’ll get “creep” where the counter moves forward over time.

How big is the problem: it seems incredibly wide spread. In a recent poll here, about 70% of users reported having the problem.

Is it fixed: doesn’t seem so. There’s been folks reporting issues as recent as 2024 releases, and people who send their watch back may require multiple times to send it back to fix it.

What’s the reason for the problem: this one is more tricky. I’ve been researching chrono movements, the 4401/4404 movement specifically, and why this could be happening. In short, it seems that because AP went with a continuously driven counter with on the chrono with flyback function, the spring that holds the chrono wheel in place needs to fall within a very narrow window of force. Too much and you drag the system reducing power reserve and a jerky chrono engagement, too little and you have this subdial creep issue. Other chronos like the Daytona have a jumping minute hand (you see the minute jump after it passes 60 second mark). So the spring used can be a higher tension without issue - ie you have a bigger window for the spring force.

My guess is there is a window that works for the spring, but it’s hard for AP to ensure all watches fit it. It might even be watch specific based on how the rest of the movement is built.

I’m doing the RO masterclass in Le Brassus at the end of the year, I’m going to ask the watchmaker what his thoughts are and whether the issue has a permanent fix. Hopefully will be convinced, otherwise going to take the chrono off my list.

Both my pieces with 4401 (2023 and 2024) have been back 6 times and 3 times.

A fix was promised for an updated spring design in 2024 but it still kept happening. I have since sold the watch that went back 6 times from October 2023 to July 2025 (the final straw being that upon return of the sixth service, the creep happened as they were removing it from the service box)

[dchang81]

Disappointed in this. Was hoping there would be a permanent solution, since I really liked the ceramic bezel ROO 43's. Same with the beast though it doesn't seem like it's nearly as widespread

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by AEV

Does the minute hand move when you reset the chronograph?
If it does - you have it, if not - then it is just not perfectly aligned.
I think this is what came out as an outcome of the discussion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes the minute hand goes back to 0 when I reset it. Debating if I should send it in now or just wait to see if others actually get theirs fixed permanently.

I never liked the ROC much, and with this QC problem, it might be the first AP I let go after the 2-3 year ownership mark.

[dkg1616]

I have been having very sporadic issues with mine the last few weeks…sometimes the date window is off and sometimes the chrono seconds hand creeps…guess I’ll need to send it in…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk