The Official Formula One Thread!

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by INC

Oops! Since both Mercs have the same specs, could that also mean they can both be disqualified?

Do you honestly think that both Mercedes cars are exactly the same spec'?

[Speedbird-1]

VER to Mercedes....soon.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

VER to Mercedes....soon.

I’m not so sure. 2026 maybe if the Merc look like they have a better package in the new rule set.

Also, while max is incredibly fast, does his ‘temperament’ suit a company like Mercedes that has major sponsors, shareholders etc to answer to and an image to uphold?

It works well for max being part of an energy drinks company, surrounded by people like Horner, Marko where his spikey personality can be brushed off…..in a giant corporate environment like Mercedes? I don’t know, especially when they seem set on Antonelli as their future star and Russell doing a solid job.

I’ve absolutely no doubt max would be an asset, but probably a liability too, let’s be honest, he’s never really had great teammates, so up against Russell or antonelli would this just cause too much friction in a team like Mercedes who allow their drivers to race instead of a team like red bull who have always tried to have a number 1 and 2

Lots of things to consider other than just picking the fastest current driver

[SDGT3]

Every team would jump at the chance to secure Max if they could. Newey hasn't had any input into this year's car for a while now and it shows. The Red Bull hasn't won a race in over a month. The car is difficult to drive, even for Max, who is working miracles with it as it can't ride the curbs, it seems to have no balance as it both understeer and oversteers between turn in and track out.

Couple that with the fact Mercedes bosses said they found something that had been there all along but they didn't see it and how have won 3 of the last 4 races and McLaren on a tear, and you have the perfect storm for Red Bull's decline.

The 2026 regs call for less ground effects so it's possible that Newey's influence on the next gen car will not be as great as it is now, but there's no question Max could be going to Merc if he seems a continual decline at Red Bull.

As far as personalities and big corp Mercedes, Toto has been a complete ass when it comes to his outlandish comments and outbursts, all of which are publicly known over a number of years and although he's a part owner of the team, it's still a global company with global sponsors and he continues to be a complete jackass as a team principal. Winning cures a lot of things.

[enjoythemusic]

All these old guys just trading seats. i look forward to new faces and talent. Time for the ladies to drive in F1

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

As far as personalities and big corp Mercedes, Toto has been a complete ass when it comes to his outlandish comments and outbursts, all of which are publicly known over a number of years and although he's a part owner of the team, it's still a global company with global sponsors and he continues to be a complete jackass as a team principal. Winning cures a lot of things.

Maybe we are looking at this through different lenses but not sure where Toto has been a jackass or come across as such....im not saying hes whiter than white but dont think hes said anything particularly controversial.

...compare that to Helmut Marko and Horner and he looks like the Pope ...

Happy to be proven wrong if you can give me examples that i might have missed though!

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

All these old guys just trading seats. i look forward to new faces and talent. Time for the ladies to drive in F1

Indeed, think the grid needs a refresh at the moment.

Perez
Ricciardo
Zhou
Tsuonda
Magnussen
Stroll
Ocon
Seargant

need the chop. It sounds harsh but when youve got young talent like

Lawson
Pourchaire
Antonelli
Hadjar

All ready to jump in a seat with plenty more coming through the junior ranks, some of the old guard who havent made their mark need to go, especially when theyve been in the red bull junior team and have been passed up instead of replacing Perez

In terms of women driving in F1, would love to see it but they need to prove themselves in F3 and F2 just like anyone else.

[INC]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Do you honestly think that both Mercedes cars are exactly the same spec'?

Of course, I didn't mean that they would be perfectly identical in EVERY aspect, but rather that the case of two basically identical cars poses a huge risk that they might not reach the minimum weight by the end of the race. Of course, I understand that they were not prepared for such a smooth race, but because of this, especially in this case, in my opinion, they should have take into consideration that this strategy could have resulted in the disqualification both of their cars. Based on that, I think it was Russian roulette to let RUS race with these tires and not replace them, which could have resulted in them scoring a lot more points as a team.

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

VER to Mercedes....soon.

I concur.

Originally Posted by Talon84

Indeed, think the grid needs a refresh at the moment.

Agree, but as far as I know, it was already announced that Magnussen's and Sargeant's contract was not lengthened.

[INC]

Originally Posted by Talon84

The car is still quicker than last years car and won 7 races at the start of the season so had the speed.

These cars are much faster than any car from 100 years ago. In addition, most of them are much faster on a lap than those of five years ago. This is not an argument, as only the current year matters. The rest is history.

I know from your previous posts that you tend to spin things so red bull is awful and its max saving the day, which is fine because its your opinion but a bit of balance and reality wouldn't go amiss. The RB is still one hell of a car, one that most of the grid would jump at the chance to drive

I'm sure of only one thing. If this car was as great as you make it out to be, PER would have been kicked out of RB a long time ago, because that would mean anyone else would get much better results. This begs the question: do you really think that all of Red Bull's decision makers are idiots or jerks who can't make such a simple decision?

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by INC

These cars are much faster than any car from 100 years ago. In addition, most of them are much faster on a lap than those of five years ago. This is not an argument, as only the current year matters. The rest is history.



I'm sure of only one thing. If this car was as great as you make it out to be, PER would have been kicked out of RB a long time ago, because that would mean anyone else would get much better results. This begs the question: do you really think that all of Red Bull's decision makers are idiots or jerks who can't make such a simple decision?

1) the RB was the fastest car for the first 1/3 of this season, i didnt mention 100 years ago, 5 years ago. You stated its ‘junk compared to previous models’, when in fact its faster than previous models and was the fastest car on the grid for the first several races….hardly junk eh Although you are wrong with the cars being faster than 5 years ago….they were quicker in the old rule set compared to now, by about 1.5 seconds a lap

2) if the car is as bad as you make it out to be, max wouldnt have got 7 race wins and multiple podiums

The fact perez is still there is because the team want least disruption as possible. Its never easy for any driver to jump in mid season, so no, i dont think people within red bull are idiots or jerks….nor do i think theyve forgotten how to build a car overnight

As i said below, others have caught up, this is reflected in the lap time data when compared to previous years, not that red bull have got slower. Thats just the nature of all rulesets when they are stable for a period of time, especially with the new rules allowing other teams more development time

Anyway, i doubt im going to change your mind on this one, so will bid you good day

[SDGT3]

You know, lost in all this is the fact Alonso also did a 1 stopper and wasn’t underweight post race…. Just a shame for GR.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

You know, lost in all this is the fact Alonso also did a 1 stopper and wasn’t underweight post race…. Just a shame for GR.

Guess it depends on how over the weight limit the Aston Martin is.

Actually, just made me realise….we all talk about development in terms of aero, mechanical grip etc, I remember at the start of this rule set that car like the Merc were WELL over the minimum weight….just shows how much development goes into making the cars lighter too. I know the Williams has managed to shave 14kg off their car since the start of the year, but is still over the minimum weight

[SDGT3]

A visual aid to show just how dramatic the Red Bull has dropped off from Q1 to Q2 of the season.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

A visual aid to show just how dramatic the Red Bull has dropped off from Q1 to Q2 of the season.

Interesting table that and shows how much others have caught up….and how much Ferrari have dropped too

Even though Merc and McLaren have clearly caught up, none of their drivers are ahead of max in that ‘junk of a car’ yet…..

It would be fascinating to see how much of this is down to the deficit in wind tunnel and development time red bull have (ie the new rules) or how much is down to teams working out what red bull have been doing for the last couple of years. Doubt there’s a way of knowing really but would be interesting

[BINGQILIN]

They are ahead no? They've taken turns winning the past 4 races so probably safe to say ahead of Max?

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by BINGQILIN

They are ahead no? They've taken turns winning the past 4 races so probably safe to say ahead of Max?

Just looking at the table below. Ahead in the last 4 races, sure….but that doesn’t tell the whole story does it?

Spa - red bull had the quickest car in qualifying, practice and fastest lap in the race but had to come through the pack

Hungary - McLaren on fire, red bull should have finished ahead of Merc but max went banzai

Silverstone - Hamilton won, but only just from max

Austria - max was leading, but then he went banzai

Arguably without max costing himself points he would have taken 25 from Austria and 15 from Hungary….instead he picked up zero and 10, so an additional 30 points.

Max had the opportunity to win in Austria and Silverstone but lost out by the narrowest of margins, then you’d have only been talking 2 races since his last win

That table doesn’t look as close….

I know we don’t do ‘what ifs’, but it’s also far more nuanced that simply saying he hasn’t won in 4 races so isn’t ahead

[SDGT3]

Spa isn’t a good data point. Red Bull were fastest in FP3 and qualifying but that’s because they were carrying extra downforce, which was a mistake as all forecasts showed a dry and warm Sunday. They should have trimming out Max as he would have to take the 10 grid spot penalty and work his way forward, which he did but coupled with the DRS zone being 75 meters shorter than previous years, it was difficult to get to where he normally would be.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Spa isn’t a good data point. Red Bull were fastest in FP3 and qualifying but that’s because they were carrying extra downforce, which was a mistake as all forecasts showed a dry and warm Sunday. They should have trimming out Max as he would have to take the 10 grid spot penalty and work his way forward, which he did but coupled with the DRS zone being 75 meters shorter than previous years, it was difficult to get to where he normally would be.

So the car would have been quicker in the race than it showed if running low downforce and be able to overtake more easily in the shorter DRS zones. Indeed when he undercut Norris, he managed to stay ahead easily and only finished 8 seconds off the lead despite being held up in traffic for most of the race :-)

[SDGT3]

I’m not sitting in the engineering meetings but the high DF settings were clearly for wet conditions through Saturday, certainly not for Sunday but they only had 1 set of new hards so perhaps they wanted to protect those tires with higher DF as temps were high and the track was recently resurfaced leading to more deg.

[Speedbird-1]

Another one bites the dust......Jonathan Wheatley leaves RB.

[77T]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Lol-x]

Norris needs to sort out his starting and opening lap issues.
He's lost so many starting positions, until he does moving forward in F1 is going to be limited for him.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Norris needs to sort out his starting and opening lap issues.
He's lost so many starting positions, until he does moving forward in F1 is going to be limited for him.

Agree. He's extremely quick, but needs to get over that starting grid yips. Ralf Schumacher has suggested he pair up with a sport mental coach or similar to help him. Others have done so in the past and say it works quite well.

[77T]

NOR has had 5+ years to get better at this with McLaren. Just go back to 2019 and see ≈100 starts since then.

He is a product of the COTY principle.

And now he has a COTY on hand but never mastered the bite at lights out when he piloted lesser cars.

I don't see it happening - he reminds me of a young RIC and we know how that ends up. Sorry if I sound jaded - I hate to see raw talent wasted due to one's own indifference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dba]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

Another one bites the dust......Jonathan Wheatley leaves RB.

The dynasty is slowly crumbling.

[piratfisk]

I've been a McLaren fan since the early 00s with Kimi & I see Lando taking two steps forward & one step back. He's definitely matured in terms of his racecraft & understanding things (strategy) better at the 50,000ft view. He qualifies well, he races well, but I agree that he shoots himself in the foot at the start of half (not a statistic, being hyperbolic) of his races because the first 1000m of his race is recovering from a crappy launch. Lando & Oscar may be the perfect team on the grid right now. I do foresee Lando winning the driver's championship in <5yrs.

[SDGT3]

Summer break is over and it's time to hit the track again. Mixed conditions in all practice sessions and a nasty crash with subsequent fire for Logan Sergeant who did not partake in the qualifying session due to the extensive damage to his car.

Interesting mix of top 10 in a dry qualifying with both Macs starting where they left off a month ago. Max on front row dragging the Red Bull by the scruff of the neck and a few surprises... Perez in the top 10 comfortably, Gasly and both Alonso and Stroll. Albon was also top 10, but was DQed on a technical regulation.

The other notable mentions are Sainz out in Q2 as was HAM with a 12th qualifying position. HAM also received a 3 grid spot penalty for impeding Perez, which turns into a 2 grid spot penalty after the Albon DQ. A lot of moving parts in qualifying today. Macs were not just good in qualy, but looked good on their long runs... they'll be tough to beat tomorrow.

Biggest thing will be Lando's start from P1 to the very short run at T1.

[Moondoggy]

Go Oscar, only a matter of time........

And agree would love to see a female in the mix, way way to stale.

[SearChart]

Boring race but well deserved for Norris, great clean overtake that made up for his start

[1st amg]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Boring race but well deserved for Norris, great clean overtake that made up for his start

Agreed. But for Norris to win with a 20 second gap is shocking. Looks like RB is falling apart. Ever since Newey and other important people in the RB factory are leaving, the team seems to be falling. Max looks depressed. Sort of like he sees the writing on the wall.