Nfl playoffs!

[JBat]

I think those days are long gone, Jim, never to be seen again. I grew up reading stories about the great Johnny U, and he's one of my favorite players of all time. But the Colt name is probably mud in Baltimore after what Irsay did (and he did do it).

The good news is that football is alive and well in Baltimore with the Ravens. They played a heck of a game today and I enjoyed watching it. That kid Rice is the real deal, and their defense is as tough as nails.

[diversified]

You got that right John. I had a few Eagle clients back in the Buddy Ryan days and "old time football" died the day Keith Jackson became the first NFL free agent. The players now are paid 5-10 times more after that day, but it just isn't "old time football" anymore.

[JBat]

Well, given the sacrifices players make with their bodies, I have no issues with them making their share of a very large pie. I think the average life span of an NFL player who plays at least a few years is only 55. It's a brutally hard way to earn a living, and careers are short-lived. No reason the owners should get it all.

True, the sport has it prima donnas, like all sports these days, but the best players of today have what the best players of bygone eras had: heart, character and a warrior spirit.

Ray Lewis is a perfect example of that. Randy Moss is not.

[diversified]

John, You wouldn't believe some of the "paultry" paydays some of the players got before free agency.

[JBat]

Oh, I'm well aware of it, and that's partly my point. Those guys deserved it too. I'm somewhat of an amateur NFL historian (emphasis on "amateur" ), and those players did it for love of the game. Most had to work second jobs in the off-season, just to make ends meet. That's why I don't begrudge todays players.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by JBat

Oh, I'm well aware of it, and that's partly my point. Those guys deserved it too. I'm somewhat of an amateur NFL historian (emphasis on "amateur" ), and those players did it for love of the game. Most had to work second jobs in the off-season, just to make ends meet. That's why I don't begrudge todays players.

Johnny U is from right here in Pittsburgh, Joe M is from Monongahela, Joe N is from Beaver Falls, Dan M is from downtown Pittsburgh, the list of HOF QBs from SW PA is lengthy.

So..here's a little nugget to chew on during the week. Rate the greatest QB of all time.

My list starts off like this: 1) Montana 2) Bradshaw 3)Unitas, then goes nuts with the likes of Peyton, Marino, Elway, etc.

What does a historian like yourself say ?

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by diversified

John, What I mean is, when I think of Baltimore, I think of Johnny Unitas and wild ass stories from Art Donavon, the the leaving of the Colts in the wee hours ( whether or not that is really true). I just think it would be nice to see Baltimore grow back into their team of past.

Funny, I try to avoid this topic every time the Ravens play the Colts.

The local media runs this thing through the ringer every time the Ravens play the Colts. Everyone gets all worked up about the old Colts days, the Peyton Manning breaks their hearts. I understand they are writers and this is a juicy story, but it does a disservice to the current team. I'd rather just treat them as another team. They aren't moving back. The colors, name and Super Bowl V trophy aren't coming back. I'm glad Manning has knocked Unitas from all of the old Colt records. Unitas himself asked to be removed since he did not want his name associated with Robert Irsay or the Indy Colts.

Rest assured, Baltimore is a football town again, probably even more so than in the glory days of the Colts.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Funny, I try to avoid this topic every time the Ravens play the Colts.

The local media runs this thing through the ringer every time the Ravens play the Colts. Everyone gets all worked up about the old Colts days, the Peyton Manning breaks their hearts. I understand they are writers and this is a juicy story, but it does a disservice to the current team. I'd rather just treat them as another team. They aren't moving back. The colors, name and Super Bowl V trophy aren't coming back.

Rest assured, Baltimore is a football town again, probably even more so than in the glory days of the Colts.

+1

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Johnny U is from right here in Pittsburgh, Joe M is from Monongahela, Joe N is from Beaver Falls, Dan M is from downtown Pittsburgh, the list of HOF QBs from SW PA is lengthy.

So..here's a little nugget to chew on during the week. Rate the greatest QB of all time.

My list starts off like this: 1) Montana 2) Bradshaw 3)Unitas, then goes nuts with the likes of Peyton, Marino, Elway, etc.

What does a historian like yourself say ?

Bradshaw?

Come on...

[JBat]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Johnny U is from right here in Pittsburgh, Joe M is from Monongahela, Joe N is from Beaver Falls, Dan M is from downtown Pittsburgh, the list of HOF QBs from SW PA is lengthy.

So..here's a little nugget to chew on during the week. Rate the greatest QB of all time.

My list starts off like this: 1) Montana 2) Bradshaw 3)Unitas, then goes nuts with the likes of Peyton, Marino, Elway, etc.

What does a historian like yourself say ?

Hey, David. Well, the choice for me is easy, being a die-hard 40 year 49er fan, Joe "Cool" Montana, no question. He bought me more joy as a sports fan than any other single player, and I've never seen anyone so cool under fire, and such a clutch player when everything was on the line.

I like Bradshaw too, but I'd rate Johnny U ahead of him, for many of the same reasons as Montana. The man was clutch and always seemed larger than life to me.

After that, you're right, a tough call. Peyton Manning certainly has to be in the mix, but if you want to talk straight championships, Bart Starr has to be in the discussion, as well as Troy Aikman & Tom Brady.

Lots of old-timers would get a look too, Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, YA Tittle, Sonny Jurgenson, etc, etc.

What is is with Pennsyvania, anyway? So many good QB's have come out of that state.

[JBat]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Funny, I try to avoid this topic every time the Ravens play the Colts.

The local media runs this thing through the ringer every time the Ravens play the Colts. Everyone gets all worked up about the old Colts days, the Peyton Manning breaks their hearts. I understand they are writers and this is a juicy story, but it does a disservice to the current team. I'd rather just treat them as another team. They aren't moving back. The colors, name and Super Bowl V trophy aren't coming back. I'm glad Manning has knocked Unitas from all of the old Colt records. Unitas himself asked to be removed since he did not want his name associated with Robert Irsay or the Indy Colts.

Rest assured, Baltimore is a football town again, probably even more so than in the glory days of the Colts.

Nice. Good insight into a great football town.

[Ed Rooney]

Here's my list (Super Bowl Era).

1. Montana
2. Manning
T3. Marino, Favre, Elway, Unitas, Brady
T4. Aikman, Young, Warner, Roethlisberger
T5. Bradshaw, Staubach, Kelly, Fouts, Moon, Simms, Tarkenton, etc

Alo, I don't think Namath belongs anywhere near the HOF.

[JBat]

Good list. Staubach, Favre & Elway definitely are up there.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Here's my list (Super Bowl Era).

1. Montana
2. Manning
T3. Marino, Favre, Elway, Unitas, Brady
T4. Aikman, Young, Warner, Roethlisberger
T5. Bradshaw, Staubach, Kelly, Fouts, Moon, Simms, Tarkenton, etc

Alo, I don't think Namath belongs anywhere near the HOF.

Yeah, Terry don't belong at the top....uh-huh !


!!!!!




3× Pro Bowl selection (1975, 1978, 1979)
1× First-team All-Pro selection (1978)
1× Second-team All-Pro selection (1979)
4× Super Bowl champion (IX, X, XIII, XIV)
2× Super Bowl MVP (XIII, XIV)
NFL 1970s All-Decade Team
1978 NFL MVP
1978 Bert Bell Award

My top three list still stands.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Yeah, Terry don't belong at the top....uh-huh !


!!!!!




3× Pro Bowl selection (1975, 1978, 1979)
1× First-team All-Pro selection (1978)
1× Second-team All-Pro selection (1979)
4× Super Bowl champion (IX, X, XIII, XIV)
2× Super Bowl MVP (XIII, XIV)
NFL 1970s All-Decade Team
1978 NFL MVP
1978 Bert Bell Award

My top three list still stands.

That was not a good time for QB's in the NFL. Sure, he won 4 SB's, but those teams were all defense and rushing (and steroids). He was a great one, surely a hall-of-famer, but to put him and his lifetime 70.9 QB Rating ahead of players like Unitas, Favre, Manning....to say he was the second best ever...is laughable. It's like saying Jorge Posada was better than Pudge Rodriguez over their careers. Actually, it's not even that close.

Just be happy with Roethlisberger. He is an infinitely better QB than Bradshaw ever was.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

That was not a good time for QB's in the NFL. Sure, he won 4 SB's, but those teams were all defense and rushing (and steroids). He was a great one, surely a hall-of-famer, but to put him and his lifetime 70.9 QB Rating ahead of players like Unitas, Favre, Manning....to say he was the second best ever...is laughable. It's like saying Jorge Posada was better than Pudge Rodriguez over their careers. Actually, it's not even that close.

Just be happy with Roethlisberger. He is an infinitely better QB than Bradshaw ever was.

Not so fast there, Eddie !

You're basically making my argument for me. Actually it's the guys like Manning and Brady that are the latter-day candy-asses, playing in the bump-and-run receiver era, where nobody gets to hit the QB after the ball leaves his hand. No wonder they put up the big passing numbers. Guys like Brad and Johnny U had to take a serious pounding after they released. Roughing the Passer was virtually non-existent till the 80s, and the receivers were fair game practically the whole length of their routes. There was no such thing as a West Coast offense.

Brad was and remains one of the few QBs that called their own plays as well.

[JBat]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Not so fast there, Eddie !

You're basically making my argument for me. Actually it's the guys like Manning and Brady that are the latter-day candy-asses, playing in the bump-and-run receiver era, where nobody gets to hit the QB after the ball leaves his hand. No wonder they put up the big passing numbers. Guys like Brad and Johnny U had to take a serious pounding after they released. Roughing the Passer was virtually non-existent till the 80s, and the receivers were fair game practically the whole length of their routes. There was no such thing as a West Coast offense.

Brad was and remains one of the few QBs that called their own plays as well.

I agree with this. Some of the rules protecting QB's these days are a joke. The older guys had it a lot tougher. You remember that quote by Jack Lambert? Something to the effect that they should put skirts on all quarterbacks. Now there was a football player, and I don't even like the Steelers!

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by JBat

I agree with this. Some of the rules protecting QB's these days are a joke. The older guys had it a lot tougher. You remember that quote by Jack Lambert? Something to the effect that they should put skirts on all quarterbacks. Now there was a football player, and I don't even like the Steelers!

Hm-m-m . Lambert was "OK", mind, but his rep as a tough guy on the field was routinely decimated every time he got his ass kicked in a good ol' fashioned bar fight, which happened a few times here in the 'burgh. Seems ol' Jack was good at dolling out the punishment on opposing defenseless QBs, not-so-good at taking a punch.

The two tough guys to speak of were Joe Greene, and nobody messed with Mike Webster. He was juiced, and more-or-less batshit crazy.

But to further the point about Brad: I tend to forget that guys in other cities, and younger guys in general, only see the dumb/goofy "good ol' boy redneck" giggly guy now on the NFC broadcasts, and maybe never actually saw him in action. Indeed, from a historical perspective, he was the transitional-prototype modern quarterback. That's why I asked what you thought.

[Ed Rooney]

Bradshaw was certainly up there compared to his peers. I just don't think much of his peers. Look at the rest of the league in TB's MVP season. Who else was out there? Staubach? Griese? None of them were elite in that period. It was just a dry spell. Good defenses beat up on average QB's. From the mid-80's to the late 90's we had a golden age, and we are having another now. Sure, the rules had something to do with it, but a good player is still a good player. I think you are looking at Bradshaw through black and gold colored sunglasses, which seems to be a common trait among Pittsburgh fans. Again, HOF'er, sure. top-10 ever, maybe. Top-5, no way.

Also, I think Unitas was the transitional prototype QB.

[ducatidoc]

OK, here's something for you to check out. This was a guy who could run and pass, something you no longer see. There are no rose-colored glasses here, just a very skilled quarterback, like I said, second only to Montana, and not by much, neither.






Shee-yit ! I could watch that stuff all day long !!

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

OK, here's something for you to check out. This was a guy who could run and pass, something you no longer see. There are no rose-colored glasses here, just a very skilled quarterback, like I said, second only to Montana, and not by much, neither.




Shee-yit ! I could watch that stuff all day long !!

I saw a bald guy, a lot of holds and blocks in the back, mostly vs the Browns. Did you post the right one?

[JBat]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Hm-m-m . Lambert was "OK", mind, but his rep as a tough guy on the field was routinely decimated every time he got his ass kicked in a good ol' fashioned bar fight, which happened a few times here in the 'burgh. Seems ol' Jack was good at dolling out the punishment on opposing defenseless QBs, not-so-good at taking a punch.

The two tough guys to speak of were Joe Greene, and nobody messed with Mike Webster. He was juiced, and more-or-less batshit crazy.

But to further the point about Brad: I tend to forget that guys in other cities, and younger guys in general, only see the dumb/goofy "good ol' boy redneck" giggly guy now on the NFC broadcasts, and maybe never actually saw him in action. Indeed, from a historical perspective, he was the transitional-.prototype modern quarterback. That's why I asked what you thought.

Well, I don't know anything about his record in bar fights! But he was a tough ass on the field, and he's a HOF linebacker. Enough for me to give him his props.

Bradshaw had a cannon for an arm, and was at the helm of four SB winners. He is annoying as a broadcaster, but the man could play some quarterback.

[ducatidoc]

He never did have the appropriate persona to command off-field respect. There was a definite love-hate relationship between him and the city. But even Big Ben would openly admit he's not quite in the same league. In Steeler Nation, Terry just about sits at the Left Hand of the Big Guy.

[AIKO]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Here's my list (Super Bowl Era).

1. Montana
2. Manning
T3. Marino, Favre, Elway, Unitas, Brady
T4. Aikman, Young, Warner, Roethlisberger
T5. Bradshaw, Staubach, Kelly, Fouts, Moon, Simms, Tarkenton, etc

Alo, I don't think Namath belongs anywhere near the HOF.

Favre is in the T3 category. What about Steve Young? Warner is WAY too high on this list.

[AIKO]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Bradshaw was certainly up there compared to his peers. I just don't think much of his peers. Look at the rest of the league in TB's MVP season. Who else was out there? Staubach? Griese? None of them were elite in that period. It was just a dry spell. Good defenses beat up on average QB's. From the mid-80's to the late 90's we had a golden age, and we are having another now. Sure, the rules had something to do with it, but a good player is still a good player. I think you are looking at Bradshaw through black and gold colored sunglasses, which seems to be a common trait among Pittsburgh fans. Again, HOF'er, sure. top-10 ever, maybe. Top-5, no way.

Also, I think Unitas was the transitional prototype QB.

Rooney, it's about winning Lombardi trophies. Bradshaw was one of the 2 or 3 very best of all times QB's of all time at winning championships. I really don't care about rules from different eras. The Steelers are the most dominant NFL team in the Super Bowl era. With that said. Best of luck to the Ravens, it will be fun spanking them next year after their one year wonder.

[sea-dweller]

How about this weekend's games ? I guess it will be Minnesota/New Orleans and Indianapolis/San Diego coming out on top...

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by sea-dweller

How about this weekend's games ? I guess it will be Minnesota/New Orleans and Indianapolis/San Diego coming out on top...

I'm hoping the Vikings take the Saints. And even though I don't have any preference, I'm thinking San Diego will pull it off. Don't know why, but I think the Colts are going out.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

I'm hoping the Vikings take the Saints. And even though I don't have any preference, I'm thinking San Diego will pull it off. Don't know why, but I think the Colts are going out.

+1 to both, but....

if the Saints end up in the big game, I would be happy with that too.

The problem I have this year is for various reasons i like all of the NFC teams that are still in it, so I can't get too emotionally attached on that side. Likewise I'm not real crazy about any of the AFC teams, so I'd have to go with the Ravens, although I'm guessing that outside of the Baltimore Metro area, they are probably the least "likable" team that's still in it.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by AIKO

Rooney, it's about winning Lombardi trophies. Bradshaw was one of the 2 or 3 very best of all times QB's of all time at winning championships. I really don't care about rules from different eras. The Steelers are the most dominant NFL team in the Super Bowl era. With that said. Best of luck to the Ravens, it will be fun spanking them next year after their one year wonder.

Another view from behind black and gold spectacles. Honestly, football fans don't hold Bradshaw in such high esteem. I've never heard him mentioned in the same conversation as Montana, Marino, Manning, Favre and Elway. Yardage, rating, TD's, INT's were all fairly average.

By your Super Bowl Era logic, Teddy Bruschi is a better ILB than Ray Lewis or Mike Singletary.

Wait, one year wonder? Remember, this team has only been in existence for 14 years. In the decade they have 8 playoff wins (more than everyone's darlings, the Colts), 7 of them on the road against higher seeds, 4 of them as a wild card against 1st or 2nd seed teams. 5 of those playoff wins were without a competent quarterback.

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Likewise I'm not real crazy about any of the AFC teams, so I'd have to go with the Ravens, although I'm guessing that outside of the Baltimore Metro area, they are probably the least "likable" team that's still in it.

You got that right. Any time I see a Ravens logo outside of Maryland I know I'm dealing with a local, unlike some other teams fans.

You'nz should be rooting for the Ravens all the way this year. They are playing what used to be Steelers-style football.

[HYDROMAROC]

Good thing he is a better player than dancer / rapper...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXVoTWkWTkc