Tourneau - Get Real

[Randy9999]

So this thread interested me because I bought a Rolex 16233 (TT DJ with a 2002 serial) from Tourneau earlier this year. As I read this, I began to wonder just how badly I may have been taken. So I had a few minutes to kill earlier today and decided to survey what's being offered on eBay as a point of comparison. The two negative positions struck here seem to be that a) most Tourneau salesmen are jerks, and b) their pricing is outrageous.

I couldn't test the jerk hypothesis, although I can confirm that from my own experience (more about that below). As for pricing, here's what I found:

1) There were 93 "Buy It Now" listings for the 16233 without diamond dial at the point I checked this morning, all of them with pricing ranging from $2450 to $5025 except for one with a BIN price of in the mid-$7000s. I excluded that strange outlier from this quick study, leaving 92 watches in the pool. Incidentally I added in the seller's shipping price for those listings that did not offer free shipping.

2) The average price for the 92 watches was $3464.74.

3) Here was the distribution:
Rolex 16233.jpg

4) I paid Tourneau $3750 shipped from their store in Las Vegas to my home in Utah. This very raw data suggests that I paid Tourneau a $285.26 premium over this eBay mean. What I got for that: Well, as jerky and pompous as the folks in Tourneau are in my experience (below), at least I didn't have to worry about some eBay seller's reputation, whether or not the watch was genuine, or if it would arrive in working order. (Tourneau included their 1 year pre-owned warranty, which, although obviously not anywhere even close to being as wonderful as a Rolex warranty is better than the kind of long-term warranty I'd get from an eBay seller.) The watch is practically flawless and keeps time within spec (gains 4 seconds per day without self-regulation/positioning).

5) Now, of course I purchased this before I joined this forum. Now I know I could have purchased a pre-owned 16233 here on the TRF classifieds board for less from a seller with a confirmed positive reputation. Since that time I have in fact purchased a watch here that way. I also could have probably driven a better deal at Tourneau. Finally, if I'd wanted to, I could have sourced a much better deal from another offline pre-owned dealer. Still, this quick and dirty exam did encourage me a bit. I may have paid more than I could have elsewhere, but -- in my case at least -- I can say that Tourneau didn't engage in crazily exploitative pricing with me. Moreover the watch arrived perfectly and very quickly.

6) Finally, about the jerky salesman at Tourneau in the Caesars Forum Shops. Wow, if I hadn't been in a great mood (due to some happy Blackjack moments), I probably would have told the guy to screw himself. First, he was a pompous ass who looked as if I was a nuisance and almost spat the price at me. I agree with an earlier poster in this thread that they probably do tire of the parade of people who walk away after asking, but, hey, that's sales. I'm not a salesman, but I do believe that there's absolutely no money in being unfriendly to potential customers. To be clear, he wasn't hateful, but he was dismissive and relatively unfriendly. Moreover, their pricetag was $4400, and when I offered $3750 -- which was almost dead onto 15% off, a very reasonable and respectful offer -- he laughed and said something like, "Hey, there's absolutely no way he'll do that." (Whoever "he" is.) So I responded, "Well, it's a decent offer, and I'll buy it if he'll do that, so there's no harm in running it buy him. Otherwise, I'll see you some other time." He returns after two minutes, "This is your lucky day!" -- an incredibly patronizing comment. I'm the customer buying from him; he's not doing me a favor. Incredible. Anyway, I wanted the watch in that moment. :)

So, long story concluded, I vote "no" on unfair pricing (although it is on the higher side), and "yes" on the Tourneau buying experience being unnerving.

Randy

[KirkWilfred]

insanity!

[PeteNYC13]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

So this thread interested me because I bought a Rolex 16233 (TT DJ with a 2002 serial) from Tourneau earlier this year. As I read this, I began to wonder just how badly I may have been taken. So I had a few minutes to kill earlier today and decided to survey what's being offered on eBay as a point of comparison. The two negative positions struck here seem to be that a) most Tourneau salesmen are jerks, and b) their pricing is outrageous.

I couldn't test the jerk hypothesis, although I can confirm that from my own experience (more about that below). As for pricing, here's what I found:

1) There were 93 "Buy It Now" listings for the 16233 without diamond dial at the point I checked this morning, all of them with pricing ranging from $2450 to $5025 except for one with a BIN price of in the mid-$7000s. I excluded that strange outlier from this quick study, leaving 92 watches in the pool. Incidentally I added in the seller's shipping price for those listings that did not offer free shipping.

2) The average price for the 92 watches was $3464.74.

3) Here was the distribution:
Attachment 162795

4) I paid Tourneau $3750 shipped from their store in Las Vegas to my home in Utah. This very raw data suggests that I paid Tourneau a $285.26 premium over this eBay mean. What I got for that: Well, as jerky and pompous as the folks in Tourneau are in my experience (below), at least I didn't have to worry about some eBay seller's reputation, whether or not the watch was genuine, or if it would arrive in working order. (Tourneau included their 1 year pre-owned warranty, which, although obviously not anywhere even close to being as wonderful as a Rolex warranty is better than the kind of long-term warranty I'd get from an eBay seller.) The watch is practically flawless and keeps time within spec (gains 4 seconds per day without self-regulation/positioning).

5) Now, of course I purchased this before I joined this forum. Now I know I could have purchased a pre-owned 16233 here on the TRF classifieds board for less from a seller with a confirmed positive reputation. Since that time I have in fact purchased a watch here that way. I also could have probably driven a better deal at Tourneau. Finally, if I'd wanted to, I could have sourced a much better deal from another offline pre-owned dealer. Still, this quick and dirty exam did encourage me a bit. I may have paid more than I could have elsewhere, but -- in my case at least -- I can say that Tourneau didn't engage in crazily exploitative pricing with me. Moreover the watch arrived perfectly and very quickly.

6) Finally, about the jerky salesman at Tourneau in the Caesars Forum Shops. Wow, if I hadn't been in a great mood (due to some happy Blackjack moments), I probably would have told the guy to screw himself. First, he was a pompous ass who looked as if I was a nuisance and almost spat the price at me. I agree with an earlier poster in this thread that they probably do tire of the parade of people who walk away after asking, but, hey, that's sales. I'm not a salesman, but I do believe that there's absolutely no money in being unfriendly to potential customers. To be clear, he wasn't hateful, but he was dismissive and relatively unfriendly. Moreover, their pricetag was $4400, and when I offered $3750 -- which was almost dead onto 15% off, a very reasonable and respectful offer -- he laughed and said something like, "Hey, there's absolutely no way he'll do that." (Whoever "he" is.) So I responded, "Well, it's a decent offer, and I'll buy it if he'll do that, so there's no harm in running it buy him. Otherwise, I'll see you some other time." He returns after two minutes, "This is your lucky day!" -- an incredibly patronizing comment. I'm the customer buying from him; he's not doing me a favor. Incredible. Anyway, I wanted the watch in that moment. :)

So, long story concluded, I vote "no" on unfair pricing (although it is on the higher side), and "yes" on the Tourneau buying experience being unnerving.

Randy

__________________________________________________ __________

Awesome post!!!

Any internet watch forum with a graph included, earns a post of the day vote from me :-)

Very interesting to see the price comparisons... maybe it's possible Torneu has a pretty good idea of what the market with support. Now for the shi**y attitude, no excuse for that! Glad you got the watch you wanted for a price you are comfortable with.

I am looking forward to your next graph!

-Pete

[ingoodtime]

I was at aTorneau in WPB, FL on Worth Ave. The salespeople were friendly and the one guy on spoke with was very knowledgeable. We ended up talking watches for awhile much to the chagrin of my family that was finished looking around. I left with a gift bag full of brochures and booklets. They were greeat. Now I was not in the market to purchase as I had recently aquired my TT seti sub (and was wearing it). They treated me well, I just don't know how their real wrold pricing would have been. I can say, at the time, we were the only customers in the store and I was there for at least 1 hour.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by ingoodtime

I was at aTorneau in WPB, FL on Worth Ave. The salespeople were friendly and the one guy on spoke with was very knowledgeable. We ended up talking watches for awhile much to the chagrin of my family that was finished looking around. I left with a gift bag full of brochures and booklets. They were greeat. Now I was not in the market to purchase as I had recently aquired my TT seti sub (and was wearing it). They treated me well, I just don't know how their real wrold pricing would have been. I can say, at the time, we were the only customers in the store and I was there for at least 1 hour.

I'm surprised you didn't go to Hamilton Jewelers. I walked in there with my Glashutte on and the store owner new what it was right away!

The Torneau people are friendly there on Worth Avenue, you are right. They are also friendly in upstate NY.

[dddrees]

Alot of good comments. Alot of you made some real good points.

The graph post, just awsome and you really did an amazing job.

I will have to try a bit harder in the furture before prejudging the situation.

Thanks guys.

[rpryan55]

True conversation:

I'll give you $4500 for that watch - tax, title, out the door. Do we have a deal?

"Oh, sir, Tourneau never discounts."

Huh? What was that you said? For a minute there, I thought I heard a seller of luxury watches in this economy say that they never discount.

"Unfortunately, that's right."

Just for kicks, do you know that I can get that watch for 4500 USD at any AD - and that there are two ADs within walking distance from this shop?

"Yes, sir. And, frankly, that's where I'd go. Tourneau is not for watch collectors, its more for the man who just wants one fine watch."

Oh. Thanks. Nice to know, but you guys should really get a sign. With all these watches in here, a collector like myself might mistakenly wander in!

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

True conversation:

I'll give you $4500 for that watch - tax, title, out the door. Do we have a deal?

"Oh, sir, Tourneau never discounts."

Huh? What was that you said? For a minute there, I thought I heard a seller of luxury watches in this economy say that they never discount.

"Unfortunately, that's right."

Just for kicks, do you know that I can get that watch for 4500 USD at any AD - and that there are two ADs within walking distance from this shop?

"Yes, sir. And, frankly, that's where I'd go. Tourneau is not for watch collectors, its more for the man who just wants one fine watch."

Oh. Thanks. Nice to know, but you guys should really get a sign. With all these watches in here, a collector like myself might mistakenly wander in!

Knowing what you know about getting 4500 from 2 AD's within walking distance why did you go in there? If he met your price would you have purchased the watch? Sounds to me like the salesman was very nice and respectful to you.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by Art 1

Knowing what you know about getting 4500 from 2 AD's within walking distance why did you go in there? If he met your price would you have purchased the watch? Sounds to me like the salesman was very nice and respectful to you.

Sure. It was a watch I was interested in (and I did get it that day). And the ADs within walking distance were my next stop if Tourneau wouldn't do the deal (Tourneau was my first stop). The saleslady was nice but the point was about what she said Tourneau's target audience was. I thought it an odd way to characterize the largest watch dealer in the US.

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

Sure. It was a watch I was interested in (and I did get it that day). And the ADs within walking distance were my next stop if Tourneau wouldn't do the deal (Tourneau was my first stop). The saleslady was nice but the point was about what she said Tourneau's target audience was. I thought it an odd way to characterize the largest watch dealer in the US.

I apologize. I read too much into your original post. To me there is to much AD bashing on the different forums.

[Randy9999]

Originally Posted by Art 1

To me there is to much AD bashing on the different forums.

Good point, but in this case Tourneau's no longer an AD. Rolex stripped away their authorized dealer status last year.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I apologize. I read too much into your original post. To me there is to much AD bashing on the different forums.

Not a problem, friend. But as to AD bashing - I don't really see much unjustified criticism of ADs on the different boards. Often uninformed or misinformed sales people are the worst enemies of the ADs, and that, of course, is the ADs fault. Training your employees is the best customer service you can do, and many people here and at other forums are the victims of ill-prepared and ill-trained assistants.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

Good point, but in this case Tourneau's no longer an AD. Rolex stripped away their authorized dealer status last year.

Not in Chicago - in fact, the Rolex radio commercials are followed with the tag line "See what a new watch says about you at Tourneau."

[coreyharris]

My AD is in the tourney in white plains, never had a problem with him, the guy is very knowledgable and when I told him I was looking for a ss daytona he referred me to TRF.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

True conversation:


"Yes, sir. And, frankly, that's where I'd go. Tourneau is not for watch collectors, its more for the man who just wants one fine watch."

Actually, this comment, while crass, rude etc. is quite revealing.

In one unofficial sentence, this sales clerk has clearly articulated Turdneaus (seemingly successful) business strategy. Well done. I don't think a cadre of marketing professionals (including myself) could have said it so succinctly.

Said another way, "Turdneau is for Suckers." Period...the end.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

True conversation:

I'll give you $4500 for that watch - tax, title, out the door. Do we have a deal?

"Oh, sir, Tourneau never discounts."

Huh? What was that you said? For a minute there, I thought I heard a seller of luxury watches in this economy say that they never discount.

"Unfortunately, that's right."

Just for kicks, do you know that I can get that watch for 4500 USD at any AD - and that there are two ADs within walking distance from this shop?

"Yes, sir. And, frankly, that's where I'd go. Tourneau is not for watch collectors, its more for the man who just wants one fine watch."

Oh. Thanks. Nice to know, but you guys should really get a sign. With all these watches in here, a collector like myself might mistakenly wander in!

I've been in a couple of Tourneau stores and they have all offered me decent discounts. My understanding is that they all phone the central office to find out what kind of discounts they are allowed to give on a watch someone is interested in buying. I'm not sure why your Torneau would be any different...

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Randy9999

Good point, but in this case Tourneau's no longer an AD. Rolex stripped away their authorized dealer status last year.

Weird, my local Tourneau is a Rolex AD...

[Randy9999]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Weird, my local Torneau is a Rolex AD...

Total error on my part.

[Texcoonazz]

Do the other AD offer an additional year warranty beyond the two years Rolex provides? Tourneau does. Anyone familiar with or exercised the extra warranty they offer? Is it worth the paper it is written on?

And why would anyone who does business with Tourneau be a sucker! That is a hell of a statement to make. ESP when it is your position that they are crass rude etc. Your statement suggests to me some level of arrogant and crass attitude also. Just my two cents.

[ingoodtime]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I'm surprised you didn't go to Hamilton Jewelers. I walked in there with my Glashutte on and the store owner new what it was right away!

The Torneau people are friendly there on Worth Avenue, you are right. They are also friendly in upstate NY.

We did go into Hamiltons on Worth Ave (nice people), then later we went to the Torneau(again nice people) and then ended up at Hamiltons in the Palm Beach Gardens Mall on PGA Blvd. The people at Hamiltons (PBG mall) were very friendly.( Of course, all 4 of us were wearing Rolex watches.) My brother in law was interested in a new TT and ended up buy two TT Rosegold datejusts at decent discounts as they were closing out their TT rosegold DJ inventory. But, while he was shopping, I found a WG sub with a beautiful blue saphire and diamond bezel on it, all princess cut stones and the amt of blue saphires and diamonds was opposite from top to bottom. It was beautiful. They gladly took it out of the window display case even though I let them know I was not buying it. They put it on my wrist, a perfect fit! The store is pretty large. I went to give it back to them (brother in law was still negotiating) and they said, no, you can wear it for awhile. I was in heaven and in shock. It was a truly stunning watch but out of my league at like 60 or 70 grand.

Personally, I have dealt with JR Dunn jewelers once, A Rolex AD and enjoyed doing business with them. My only other Rolex purchase was from a small jewelry chain (non AD) on a pre-owned. I have had some negative experiences with Mayors and ended up buying a Breitling SuperOcean Steelfish
elsewhere because of price. After discussing the watch and prices with the salesman and hearing that I MIGHT get a 5% discount, the then sent over their Breitling specialist. He asked me what I wanted to know about the watch. Heck, I knew everything I needed to know already and told him that all I now needed was the price. He quoted me full MSRP. I thanked him and sai goodbye. I bought the watch from a non AD but a jeweler at the same location for years that only sold watches and saved a buch of money. I paid 2100 cash out the door price and Mayors was at full msrp which was like 2650if I remember correctly. So, the Mayors price would have been like 2809.00 tax included. I saved 709.00. No love for Mayors. Want to support the independants as much as possible.


All in all, it was a fun day for all.

[QueueCumber]

I love Palm Beach, especially the Breakers...

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Texcoonazz

Do the other AD offer an additional year warranty beyond the two years Rolex provides? Tourneau does. Anyone familiar with or exercised the extra warranty they offer? Is it worth the paper it is written on?

And why would anyone who does business with Tourneau be a sucker! That is a hell of a statement to make. ESP when it is your position that they are crass rude etc. Your statement suggests to me some level of arrogant and crass attitude also. Just my two cents.

Thanks. I meant it to be a helluva statement!

I thought the salesperson's comment - presuming it was verbatim - spoke VOLUMES about the Turdneau experience - but more importantly their true feelings about customers!!

I was interpreting the sales person's statement to mean that someone who just wants one fine watch / and would pay the highest price possible is, well...a Sucker. And Turdneau's target customer is therefore, a sucker.

I am not trying to offend people who like buying at Turdneau. Do you perchance? How many watches have you paid MSRP or more for at Turdneau? Hmm?

Sure I used a provocative word to describe some ill-informed person who could care less about what they spend. It's been my experience that even the most successful /wealthy people got that way not by foolishly paying the highest price for something, but by shrewd negotiation and savvy business dealings.

My position was formed via experiencing similar attitude and treatment at Turdneau . Your statement (IMO) seems to have been made with a good deal of ignorance - unless you are a regular Turdneau customer. Just my two cents.

[rpryan55]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I'm not sure why your Torneau would be any different...

What watches were you looking at? Is it your position that they discount on every brand? I can assure you that they do not.

By the way, the conversation was quite real, which is why I quoted it. Calling me a BSer says much more about you than it does about that conversation, I'm afraid.

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

"Yes, sir. And, frankly, that's where I'd go. Tourneau is not for watch collectors, its more for the man who just wants one fine watch."

This is always how I've seen tourneau as well. The reality is that a lot more people are looking for one nice watch, than watches for us collectors. On that basis alone, the 17k daytona will sell because an uninformed (or unperturbed) individual will buy it. I dislike tourneau for this very reason. However, I have always been treated very well there....

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Zed Homme

This is always how I've seen tourneau as well. The reality is that a lot more people are looking for one nice watch, than watches for us collectors. On that basis alone, the 17k daytona will sell because an uninformed (or unperturbed) individual will buy it. I dislike tourneau for this very reason. However, I have always been treated very well there....

Agreed Chris. Herein lies Turdneau's business model.

Now where is PeteNYC when you need him?

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by Speed

Agreed Chris. Herein lies Turdneau's business model.

Now where is PeteNYC when you need him?

I don't think there is anything wrong with that business model, it is just one I don't care to interact with....

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

What watches were you looking at? Is it your position that they discount on every brand? I can assure you that they do not.

By the way, the conversation was quite real, which is why I quoted it. Calling me a BSer says much more about you than it does about that conversation, I'm afraid.

My personal experience was with Rolex watches and Glashuttes, but I have been offered deals on other stuff at Tourneau as well... Even their used pieces. The deals were significant, matching some TRF sellers, but obviously not others (or I wouldn't have bought my most recent here!).

[QueueCumber]

Perhaps they don't perceive you as someone who will actually buy a watch rpryan55. They seemed pretty open to dealing with me right from the start, but I was pushy about what kind of deal I was looking for...

[Speed]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Perhaps they don't perceive you as someone who will actually buy a watch rpryan55. They seemed pretty open to dealing with me right from the start, but I was pushy about what kind of deal I was looking for...

You, pushy?

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Speed

You, pushy?

I know, I know, tis a hard pill to swallow...