Che Guevarra

[VESUVIO]

Supposedly Fidel Castro just to give Rolex watches as gifts to his innercircle, as well as other luxury items. I guess it's great to be King.

[ratae1950]

Originally Posted by fear

Here you go. Knock yourself out.

noun: terrorist (a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities)

We're fighting a war on them, if you didn't notice.

I assume you are or have been serving in Iraq and/or Afganhistan. Thank you for your service to our country.

I have not and I am not personally engaged in this 'never ending war.'
. I feel terrible for the young people and their families fighting Bushs' War. Many Americans don't give a toss to quote our Aussie friend. They watch inept network newscasts if they watch any news at all, then its reality TV or off to the Mall. The biggest danger to our freedom in my view is a restriction of freedom of speech as well as the dumbing down of America.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021502901.html

By the way nice watch Che!

[watchlady]

This is getting too political but...
The USA is not really fighting a war on terrorists, if so it should have attacked Saudi Arabia where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. I think this war is creating more terrorists and ill will towards the USA around the world.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and all the signers of the Declaration of Independence might very well have been considered terrorists to the English at that time.

It is all very sad, so many die, while others are making so much money because of war.

My 2 cents.... now flame on.

Originally Posted by fear

Here you go. Knock yourself out.

noun: terrorist (a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities)

We're fighting a war on them, if you didn't notice.

[astcell]

Actually this was is not against a country but an ideology. No one thought about that and wrote rules on how to engage such a battle. We're learning by trial and error.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by taylor

it's easy to make quick comments. it's much harder to be well-versed on the issue.

some people should just stick to their watches...

Well, I don't sit around reading books about him, but here are some thoughts and often why he is perceived as a good guy.

Him and Fidel had overwhelming odds against them. They were definitely an underdog, but had some good support and used gorilla tactics effectively. The overthrew a dictator (Batista) and this was perceived as good from the outside world. They then established a military dictatorship and took EVERYTHING away from the people of Cuba. Batista was a dictator, but he was just a crook who stole government money and basically left the people of Cuba alone to have their lives. Fidel and Che took, took, took, for the good of Cuba's army.

How do I know all this if I don't read all the time about Che? My dad. He fought against Che and Fidel in Cuba when he was 13 years old. He managed to escape to the US as a refugee. He has told me horror stories about about how they were forced to join communism. Basically, the army got everything. If anyone in your family disagreed, everyone younger than that person was killed. So if you parents disagreed, you were dead.

Yeah, a good guy!

[jdc]

Very interesting exchange of views on this forum.
I think that there was majority support in Britain for the invasion of Iraq but the lack of finding weapons of mass destruction, which was the main reason for Britain's support, has damaged the USA's credibility in this country and the rest of the world.
I think it is encouraging and proof of democracy that we can have debate and have differences in Britain and the USA - long may it continue, this is what builds checks and balances to governments and stops them doing whatever they want to do.
Agree with me or disagree at least we can have this debate, however we cannot enforce our will on others be they individuals or countries because we feel it is the right thing.
People have to learn that themselves, the USA and Britain have had hundred of years of evolving democracy these things don't happen overnight nor can they be imposed on others. There are no simple answers to complex religious and cultural divides.
As Lisa (Watchlady) said George Washington would have been in todays language labeled a terrorist by Britain, to Americans he would be a patriot and a freedom fighter - it all depends on your perception of events.

[astcell]

Not that Cuba is rolling in money, but do you think there is a Rolex AD there?

[Land Dweller]

Originally Posted by VESUVIO

I recently saw a picture of Che Guevarra wearing a SS Submariner in a special edition watch magazine dedicate to Rolex.
The article described Che Guevarra wearing a SS Submariner during his Guerrilla fighting days.
Can you believe that such a symbol of capitalism was worn on the wrist of this great anti-capitalist. I guess that quality is appreciated and recognized regardless of political convictions.

Don't forget that most communists are or were middle class! lol

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by astcell

Not that Cuba is rolling in money, but do you think there is a Rolex AD there?

Rolex Authorised Dealer in Cuba..???.......There is a better chance to find a Tajiki Rolex AD in Dunsabe, Tajikistan...lol

[astcell]

I guess Che could never get his Rolex serviced.

[fear]

They watch inept network newscasts if they watch any news at all, then its reality TV or off to the Mall.

Yikes! You'd be surprised how many people don't drink your brand of kool-aid. True intellectual indeed.

"yes we can?"

[Marrk]

Yes. I'm sure that there are TRF-ers who have read more than one or two books in their lives. Blanket accusations of "hypocracy [sic] and ignorance" drag us down to a lamentably low level of discourse and distract us from the issues.

David, are you familiar with Naomi Klein's _The Shock Doctrine_? It's quite an interesting examination of events ca. 1940s to 2008, including a discussion of U. of Chicago free market economics and Milton Friedman. It also includes a long examination of modern Latin American political history, which "brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation," back to Señor Che and his GMT.

Originally Posted by DSJ

I'm actually fairly well read on the subject.

[Welshwatchman]

Let's just make sure we keep this one on the straight and narrow please.

The opening post was slightly provocative and we have nearly done well to keep our world views to ourselves.

I really don't want to get a reputation to be a "thread closer".

[redshirt1957]

I joined TRF to talk about Rolexs and have some fun.

[redshirt1957]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Let's just make sure we keep this one on the straight and narrow please.

The opening post was slightly provocative and we have nearly done well to keep our world views to ourselves.

I really don't want to get a reputation to be a "thread closer".

My powers as the "in-house" thread killer are still intact so this thread will now just die on the vine. I do come in handy every once in a while.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by redshirt1957

My powers as the "in-house" thread killer are still intact so this thread will now just die on the vine. I do come in handy every once in a while.

We do always seem to brush past each other on the "warmer" threads, Joe.

[astcell]

I just hope that folks who dissent from their government's view realize that not everyone gets such a luxury.

[Mars]

The love of Rolexes got us together here in the first place. Let's not let our differences on other matters diminish this feeling of mateship. I certainly feel it as I share something in common with all of you. Please, please, please, let's drop the politics & go back to ROLEX. I love Rolex and so do you. That's why we are here - a worldwide community of Rolex lovers. Let's continue the love.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by watchlady

This is getting too political but...
The USA is not really fighting a war on terrorists, if so it should have attacked Saudi Arabia where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. I think this war is creating more terrorists and ill will towards the USA around the world.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and all the signers of the Declaration of Independence might very well have been considered terrorists to the English at that time.

It is all very sad, so many die, while others are making so much money because of war.

My 2 cents.... now flame on.

I think a lot of people would disagree with you.

The liberal anti-war machine seems to talk out of both sides of its mouth. One side of the mouth says that we're not fighting anyone of consequence, that the war is meaningless, that we're in the wrong place. The other side of the mouth says that Iraq is a catastrophe, citing the influx of terrorists who have come to fight us. Sounds pretty contradictory to me.

Here's an interpretation that I never see people make publicly. Immediately after 911, the US was bemoaning the fact that this new adversary had no sovereign land, no clear identity, no location we could pinpoint. Big problem right?

Well, whether it was accidental or intentional, we have drawn the terrorists to us. In a way it's just like an after-school fight. "Fight behind the bleachers after school!", only for this it's "fight in Sadaam's back yard." Sucks for the poor Iraqis, but hey... strategically it's a good thing to get the enemy all in one place. Concentrating so many assets in known locations has taken away one of the terrorists' biggest recognized tactical advantages. Now we know where to find a -lot- of them. A lot more than we could prior to liberating Iraq.


Oh, and the American Revolutionaries were considered colonists. Colonial uprisings and moves towards independence are still supported today by the international community. To provide perspective, I know of no instances of the international community supporting or condoning terrorist activity. It's crazy to justify a weakened US policy by likening our founding fathers to terrorists.

[rescue7]

Hey people this is TRF and not some political forum chat site, enough already.

[fear]

Washington, Adams, Jefferson... Were not terrorists. Such is the world we live in today. Moral relativism reigns. The patriots fought againts tyranny imposed on them!

[infoe]

Lol I can see. This thread being closed very soon...I have not read any of the posts of this thread because I'm cuban american and I don't even want to know what some people that have no idea of che guevaras true nature have mentioned about him. how he has romantically been idolized in this country. And although I feel very happy "not proud" to be an american" to be an american and I feel g. Washington, adams, franklin, jefferson were revolutionist, I can see how their acts were of the terrorist nature, if their revolution would have failed they would be nothing more but spit on names in the books of history. Look at guy fawkes "v for vendetta" failed at his attempt to overthrow parliament and is now just a romanticized terrorist, had he succeeded he would have been the father "hero" of modern day england....

[jasonbellevue]

Originally Posted by astcell

Not that Cuba is rolling in money, but do you think there is a Rolex AD there?

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Rolex Authorised Dealer in Cuba..???.......There is a better chance to find a Tajiki Rolex AD in Dunsabe, Tajikistan...lol

Originally Posted by astcell

I guess Che could never get his Rolex serviced.

...Robert, you crack me up!

[Goodwatch]

As much as I am interested in modern history, especially the Cold War era, I urge all to take a step back from this thread. Every time politics or religion finds its way into a thread, the discussion has the tendency to overheat a little. We are not here to curb meaningful and civil discussion but I will have to close this thread if it gets really out of hand. Thank you all for your understanding!

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by Haole

Is there anyone on this board with the sense enough to close this because I'm just getting started personally.

This thread doesn't need to be closed on account of the likes of you getting on your little soap box. You're not that important, so get over it.

Your getting started is insignificant compared to your getting my attention, booster. I assure you that my bad side is a very undesirable piece of real estate. Now take six points and wind your blooming neck in before daddy's gotta give you a real spanking.

As for everybody else, I'll be more blunt than Frans. You ought to know the stance on political and religious discussions here, so I expect that you folks have the better sense than to drag this kind of thing onto this forum.

[astcell]

I wonder where that Rolex is now.

[Gedanken]

Last I heard, Che's Rolex is still property of the Bolivian colonel commanding the troops who killed Che.

Right or wrong, Che stopped Fidel from scrapping the Cuban cigar indistry altogether. That makes him all right in my book.

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Trurolexer needs to start a new poll: Are TRF-ers politcally Rightwing and Conservative, Leftwing and Liberal, or No wing and Moderate.

I already told you Guys, I quit and no more new pool from me...

Originally Posted by wanasub

That was Obama, not Osama

They're not the same person?
I know who's Obama and who's Osama...

[watchlady]

As long as it is still open... I didn't say they were terrorists, I said they might have been considered terrorists of their time, things the Boston Tea Party, dumping shiploads full of tea into the harbor as a taxation protest would be considered terrorist activities in todays climate.

Colonist then, terrorist now it all depends on your point of view. In many ways it is a buzz world to insight fear. The British didn't see the colonists in a positive light is my point.

Originally Posted by TheDude

I think a lot of people would disagree with you.


Oh, and the American Revolutionaries were considered colonists. Colonial uprisings and moves towards independence are still supported today by the international community. To provide perspective, I know of no instances of the international community supporting or condoning terrorist activity. It's crazy to justify a weakened US policy by likening our founding fathers to terrorists.

[Welshwatchman]

I find that when someone is intensely passionate about one side of an argument they tend to be blind and ignorant to the opposite view.

If you want to vent your spleen somewhere do it here:

http://www.politic.co.uk

or here :

http://www.politicalforum.com