Sea Dweller 4000 (116600) Discontinued?

[arexander]

With seemingly slow sales with the SD4K, I wouldn't be surprised if the "current" version is discontinued for a "red-lettering" version to boost sales. They surely must have learned that something can be made out of the appeal of red lettering, plus their experience with a sales surge from Deep Blue-ing the DSSD.

[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by RolexLuthor

I don't understand why the Sea dweller does not sell well! Its a fanboys dream! Rolex have given everyone what they wanted! Much better older style case dimensions, Mil-Sub style bezel, matte dial like the much sought after vintage models and a vintage style raised crystal with no cyclops! Everyone moans about the premium between the Sub and SD4K but won't think twice about paying extra for exactly the same sub with a green bezel! The Sub is an iconic watch but the SD4K is an unbelievably well crafted piece that should be more appreciated!

Couldn't agree more..but I think a lot of people do love it.

[seand442]

Originally Posted by RolexLuthor

I don't understand why the Sea dweller does not sell well! Its a fanboys dream! Rolex have given everyone what they wanted! Much better older style case dimensions, Mil-Sub style bezel, matte dial like the much sought after vintage models and a vintage style raised crystal with no cyclops! Everyone moans about the premium between the Sub and SD4K but won't think twice about paying extra for exactly the same sub with a green bezel! The Sub is an iconic watch but the SD4K is an unbelievably well crafted piece that should be more appreciated!

The price and the fact it doesn't look like a quintessential Rolex, ie. no cyclops. The average buyer can get the Rolex look and save some cash by going with the Sub. To a WIS, the SD is awesome.

[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by seand442

The price and the fact it doesn't look like a quintessential Rolex, ie. no cyclops. The average buyer can get the Rolex look and save some cash by going with the Sub. To a WIS, the SD is awesome.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by RolexLuthor

I don't understand why the Sea dweller does not sell well! Its a fanboys dream! Rolex have given everyone what they wanted! Much better older style case dimensions, Mil-Sub style bezel, matte dial like the much sought after vintage models and a vintage style raised crystal with no cyclops! Everyone moans about the premium between the Sub and SD4K but won't think twice about paying extra for exactly the same sub with a green bezel! The Sub is an iconic watch but the SD4K is an unbelievably well crafted piece that should be more appreciated!

No kidding, although I think it's indicative of where Rolex has been heading over the last decade (along with other luxury brands.) Rather than offer somewhat similar sport models that are essentially differentiated by function, Rolex seems to be increasing focus on buyers who want a particular size, look or colorway.

[Loevhagen]

How do you "know" that the SD4K does not sell well? Alex Lee and RolexLuthor

[Gunbucker]

Originally Posted by RolexLuthor

I don't understand why the Sea dweller does not sell well! Its a fanboys dream! Rolex have given everyone what they wanted! Much better older style case dimensions, Mil-Sub style bezel, matte dial like the much sought after vintage models and a vintage style raised crystal with no cyclops! Everyone moans about the premium between the Sub and SD4K but won't think twice about paying extra for exactly the same sub with a green bezel! The Sub is an iconic watch but the SD4K is an unbelievably well crafted piece that should be more appreciated!

Somewhere in the last two decades, Rolex sports watches lost that badass professional utilitarian look, and looked more and more like jewellery. No fault of Rolex, as that's what the majority of customers out there have been asking for.

This is probably why the Sea-Dweller, being the last of the badass utilitarian watches from Rolex, especially the less blingy SD4000, has become, to quote one of my regular ADs, the slowest selling Rolex sports watch he has ever seen.

So, as a business, what is Rolex to do, with all the tooling invested, for such a badly selling advanced dive watch? Discontinuing would mean a huge loss in investment. Making small batches doesn't justify the investment either.

But, if they, I don't know, break some house rules, and give it 2 red lines of lettering on the dial, and most probably cranking up the prices even more, make it look even "special" (borrowing a few pages from Panerai's play book), then producing small batches only upon request, make customers wait years (hmmm... sounds familiar), it just might break even for them.

Sorry, not the kind of speculation we all want to hear.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Gunbucker

Somewhere in the last two decades, Rolex sports watches lost that badass professional utilitarian look, and looked more and more like jewellery. No fault of Rolex, as that's what the majority of customers out there have been asking for.

This is probably why the Sea-Dweller, being the last of the badass utilitarian watches from Rolex, especially the less blingy SD4000, has become, to quote one of my regular ADs, the slowest selling Rolex sports watch he has ever seen.

So, as a business, what is Rolex to do, with all the tooling invested, for such a badly selling advanced dive watch? Discontinuing would mean a huge loss in investment. Making small batches doesn't justify the investment either.

But, if they, I don't know, break some house rules, and give it 2 red lines of lettering on the dial, and most probably cranking up the prices even more, make it look even "special" (borrowing a few pages from Panerai's play book), then producing small batches only upon request, make customers wait years (hmmm... sounds familiar), it just might break even for them.

Sorry, not the kind of speculation we all want to hear.

Yeah, I think it really started with the ceramic GMT, and I wouldn't be surprised if a reworked SD came at 42mm, simply to give an in-between size option (unfortunately.)

[timewarped80]

I walked into Rolex's 5th Ave boutique in NYC today. They confirmed that the 116600 Sea Dweller has formally been discontinued. They think a new model could be coming in March, but couldn't say for sure.

[Brushpup]

If they made a special double red for the 50th, they couldn't meet the demand.

[TitanCi]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

If they made a special double red for the 50th, they couldn't meet the demand.

For who? WIS and Rolex enthusiasts? I agree, but I feel the majority of the public won't pay 3-4K more (MSRP) for a watch that looks like a sub and has red letters. It's probably safe to assume the general public could care less about this watch if it were to come.

I know I'd like it. :)


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[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by TitanCi

For who? WIS and Rolex enthusiasts? I agree, but I feel the majority of the public won't pay 3-4K more (MSRP) for a watch that looks like a sub and has red letters. It's probably safe to assume the general public could care less about this watch if it were to come.

I know I'd like it. :)


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I unfortunately agree. I'd imagine the problem with the current model for the general buying public is "Wait, it's more money than a Sub, and it looks smaller???"

[Loevhagen]

If they made a SD in purple ink and titanium and red hands and green stripes, they couldn't meet demand - as if they made 3 of them every year.

tl;dr - Rolex makes what they want - and they balance the supply to the demand.

[Ferdelious]

What do you think it will mean for the price of the 116600 in the secondary market if a new version comes out?

[Goodwill63]

Stopped into a very well known nyc AD today and asked about the SD4k. The owner was quite convinced that an anniversary model is coming out at Basel. Also was very confident about a ss coke gmt and an adjustable jubilee for the 41mm datejust. Please don't fry me for passing this along as it is just one person's opinion.

[timewarped80]

That's a great question. On the one hand, a new model could decrease demand for the old. On the other hand, limited production (3 year run) means less supply, and people always want what they can't have. Curious what others think.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

What do you think it will mean for the price of the 116600 in the secondary market if a new version comes out?

nothing...maybe sell cheaper since its not exactly desireable apparently!?

[904VT]

Originally Posted by RolexLuthor

I don't understand why no one buys the SD4K! Rolex has given fans exactly what they wanted. A bezel reminiscent of the old mil sub, raised crystal like vintage, matte dial, again a hark back to vintage, no cyclops and a slimmer case! And everyone thinks this is overpriced but will pay more money for exactly the same Submariner with a green bezel. The Submariner is an iconic watch but the Seadweller is an unbelievably well crafted piece!

It's only about a 500 USD uncharge for the green LV over the LN, it's really not a bad deal. Plus the dial includes different treatment that is more expensive to produce. It's ~ a $2k uncharge for the SD4k and it's increased water resistance.

[904VT]

[QUOTE=TitanCi;7337476]For who? WIS and Rolex enthusiasts? I agree, but I feel the majority of the public won't pay 3-4K more (MSRP) for a watch that looks like a sub and has red letters. It's probably safe to assume the general public could care less about this watch if it were to come.


That's a great point. In reality, if the SD4k is really the WIS diver of choice, wouldn't they have already bought it? A WIS focused piece isn't going to accomplish what Rolex is supposedly looking to do: Attract more attention from the general public. Just like the D Blue. We love it for the most part here, but I'd guess most in the public would be put off by the half blue dial and the fluorescent dial lettering. I love it though and my wish is for Rolex to make a D Blue SD4k. My feeling is red lettering is more tame than the D blue, but it's not really going to get anyone excited outside of these forums for the most part...

[speedmaster73]

whats most confusing is many here state that the sd4k is not a good seller...and that rolex in some way cares.....

why would rolex care? they have a chance to sell daytonas and they are 'restricting' output...

rolex dont care what anyone thinks

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Loevhagen

How do you "know" that the SD4K does not sell well? Alex Lee and RolexLuthor

I think we can make safe assumptions from looking at Trusted Seller postings alone. You'll see SD4k sit on their websites for months at a time, often at a 20 percent discount...

They Daytona is at a 50% premium. BNIB GMTs and Subs SS perhaps 10% max discount. DJ sell well and see big discounts but that's a different story because of supply

[904VT]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

whats most confusing is many here state that the sd4k is not a good seller...and that rolex in some way cares.....

why would rolex care? they have a chance to sell daytonas and they are 'restricting' output...

rolex dont care what anyone thinks

Because Rolex doesn't make any money on SS Daytona with the underlying input costs of Calibre 4130. They gain more value in branding goodwill than they would by selling more quantity. In other words they found their equilibrium. The "shortage" does nothing but benefit Rolex in 1. Brand Hype and 2. Driving sales up the model line to the TT and PM models with larger margin cushions. Rolex most certainly cares what sells well, that's their business

[Afghanvet]

Ahhh... the rumors!

[JohnnyNoDate]

IMO, it's a bad assumption to think any amount of red text alone is going to save the SD4K - that's just wishful thinking for us serious collectors.

The market for this watch has changed. Rolex is going to have to make a significant change and adjust or drop it for DSSD...

[isiah]

I bought my SD4K in july 2014. It's top heavy and kind of boring watch but I love it! Hopefully they'll discontinue it! :))

[G'ed]

116600 announced at Basel 2014, available in market Q3 2014. Do you expect Rolex to discontinue it in less than 30 months? Highly doubtful.

[outtatime]

Originally Posted by isiah

I bought my SD4K in july 2014. It's top heavy and kind of boring watch but I love it! Hopefully they'll discontinue it! :))

If you own one why do you hope they discontinue it? I want to buy one but am it quite in a position to do so. With my luck, they WILL discontinue it and then suddenly the "trusted sellers" will take their inventory sitting unsold at $8k and start asking $15k.

The best scenario for me would be they do a Red model which drives the prices of the current model down even more. :)

[isiah]

I bought it when it just came out in 2014. I wear it everyday since. Because it was 2k $ more than a Sub I knew not many will be sold and it looks like I was right. If they stop making them in current form only after 3 years of production it will make it even more special. If you like it, just get it for 7k $ preowned and don't look back :).

[Chute]

I spoke with a trustworthy AD today who confirmed their Rolex rep said the SD4K is discontinued and they cannot get more. They also said they got a lot of inquiries for that model.

No speculation as to what comes next until Basel 2017. Let's not forget, Rolex does really well at keeping secrets. I bought the SD4K at full price in the summer of 2014 and think it is the best diver ever. I did try on a D Blue for the first time and liked it much more than the black DSSD.

As for my Santa's list for Basel 2017, I'd love to see a double red SD4K but with the domed crystal like the DSSD has.
I'd also like to see the Exporer II go back to 40mm but add a ceramic bezel, that would really be great and give us more choices for white dial sport watches. Imagine a 40mm polar Explorer 2 . It sounds more attractive to me than the new white Daytona C.

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by G'ed

116600 announced at Basel 2014, available in market Q3 2014. Do you expect Rolex to discontinue it in less than 30 months? Highly doubtful.

My thought exactly!


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