114060 owner now has to admit - the news Subs are superior

[dummykid]

I have 114060 but I want a 124060. The reason? it has better(more) antimagnetic parts, but its hard to get one from the store, so I got a SMP300.

[TswaneNguni]

Have 3235s, but I will put my life on my 3135s

116610LN on the wrist .One of the workhorses .

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by dummykid

I have 114060 but I want a 124060. The reason? it has better(more) antimagnetic parts, but its hard to get one from the store, so I got a SMP300.

Have you had problems with watches getting magnetised in the past?

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by John1083

Foolhardy? Sure sure.

I wear my watches, I enjoy my watches.

I absolutely do NOT monitor their function electronically to find a +-2 second deviation in a 24 hour period. This is internet induced and laughable.

To the OP, buy the 124060 and enjoy the hell out of it, even if it could be “off” 2 seconds per day.

Good grief.

Well you've obviously not looked into this AT ALL, so all I'll say is try -5 seconds day..., then a couple of weeks later it's -10 seconds a day..., and then a couple of weeks after that it's -30 seconds a day. People aren't remotely talking about +/-2 seconds when it comes to this particular issue.

Good grief indeed.

But then I also get that it's sometimes better not to know or think about any potential issues, especially when you've already got several thousand pounds invested in it. I really hope yours stays fine.

[Lightsped]

Own a 114060 and have worn a 124060 for extended period of time. Honestly, I could feel no difference as far as wear goes. To my eyes, the 114060 looks a bit beefier/masculine, and the 124060 looks a bit more refined. I really wouldn't turn around for the difference. Those differences are both very minor.... I realize the longer power reserve on the 124060, but I've had the 114060 for several years with never an issue with 48 hour power reserve.

Bottom line for me, is I wouldn't spend multiple thousands of dollars to change something that really doesn't look or feel much different. If I am having a hard time noticing the differences, then the general public will never notice. They are both great watches. Pick one, and go with it.

[Kelvins13]

Originally Posted by Tools

I agree with Alpino!!

I'm not ready to change-out any of my obsolete models for the "superior" new ones any time soon.

Roger that.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by John1083

Foolhardy? Sure sure.

I wear my watches, I enjoy my watches.

I absolutely do NOT monitor their function electronically to find a +-2 second deviation in a 24 hour period. This is internet induced and laughable.

To the OP, buy the 124060 and enjoy the hell out of it, even if it could be “off” 2 seconds per day.

Good grief.


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So do I. I didn’t own a timegrapher until I noticed my watch was really slow and wanted to know what was up. When the issue manifests it’s extremely slow not just a few seconds I monitor this now so I know when to part with the watch.

If you have no issues good on you but I suspect you and a lot of people have this issue without knowing. It gets very bad over time it’s well documented.

I had in total 8 32xx watches if this one falls foul I’ll be left with 3. My Rolex collection will be majority Daytonas which are bulletproof and divested into other brand. None of these I chuck on the timegrapher. I hate having to use the timegrapher.

Now I’m not bitter about it because it the issue occurs and I detect it early and sell it I ironically make money on the transaction. It was never my intention to sell but I’m not holding on to a bad watch except for my very sentimental one (been to rsc twice).

OP stick with the 114060.


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[Devildog]

Originally Posted by John1083

Foolhardy? Sure sure.

I wear my watches, I enjoy my watches.

I absolutely do NOT monitor their function electronically to find a +-2 second deviation in a 24 hour period. This is internet induced and laughable.

To the OP, buy the 124060 and enjoy the hell out of it, even if it could be “off” 2 seconds per day.

Good grief.


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Oh dear John....

The issue is extremely well documented. It can affect movements from 6 months old to many years.

Mine ran for 4 years at plus 1 or 2 seconds per week, to losing many more seconds per day.

The problem is that watches sent to Rolex for warranty repair can exhibit the same issue a year or so after being repaired, which would indicate that there is no "fix"

This Forum's own resident watchmakers will confirm that the 32xx movements can be hit or miss, suffer from low amplitude and that fixes may or may not work.

"Good grief" is right - but directed at Rolex.

[JMGoodnight369]

I went from the 114060 to the 124060. Don’t get me wrong I loved my 11 series sub but for me I could feel a difference with the 12 series. It seems like everyone is different and some people feel it and others don’t. The 12 wears smaller and thinner and I have small wrists. There was always something slightly uncomfortable with my 11. Although the 11 was more accurate. The 3130 was plus half a second a day whereas my 12 is minus about 2 a day. I do enjoy the dial of the 12 a lot more. That AR coating really does something and it’s a joy to look at every time. Also I’m a big fan of the new clasp. It balances out the case a lot more. Just feels more balanced. I want to get the cermit but all the problems with the 3235 make me a bit hesitant. All in all I agree with OP. The new sub is superior, but it was a real close race

[warrior]

I completely agree with you regarding the comfort of the 124060. For me, the 124060 feels like a dream compared to the 114060 which I felt was top heavy. Also agree on the AR coating which people rarely emphasize on TRF. The dial
Is crisper/clearer even when the wrist moves and at different angles. I prefer the FEEL and more refined, “ sleeker” LOOK of the 124060 with the slimmer lugs. Mine is at +2 seconds per day.

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

I went from the 114060 to the 124060. Don’t get me wrong I loved my 11 series sub but for me I could feel a difference with the 12 series. It seems like everyone is different and some people feel it and others don’t. The 12 wears smaller and thinner and I have small wrists. There was always something slightly uncomfortable with my 11. Although the 11 was more accurate. The 3130 was plus half a second a day whereas my 12 is minus about 2 a day. I do enjoy the dial of the 12 a lot more. That AR coating really does something and it’s a joy to look at every time. Also I’m a big fan of the new clasp. It balances out the case a lot more. Just feels more balanced. I want to get the cermit but all the problems with the 3235 make me a bit hesitant. All in all I agree with OP. The new sub is superior, but it was a real close race

[brandrea]

Some prefer aesthetics over timekeeping.

I’m in the aesthetics camp so for me that makes the new Submariner a better watch

[Onequik135i]

My previous 114060 5 years back ran -3 daily (I would always track it by eye). I much prefer the 126610 over the earlier 114060, case proportions way better too. I know the typical complaints on the newer thicker clasp but it doesn’t bother me in the least. And I love the slimmer lugs. I had time graphed it dial up on several occasions & it currently runs +1 if that.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Some prefer aesthetics over timekeeping.

I’m in the aesthetics camp so for me that makes the new Submariner a better watch

One can have both.
As an example: take the Sea-Dweller 16600 with the 3135 movement and one has aesthetics AND timekeeping.

[herefortheattachment]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Cool, and the black/blue GMT with Oyster rocks!

Attachment 1304518

It’s so nice seeing the new lefty GMT being worn on the right wrist. Feels like such a waste seeing a right-handed owner wearing it on their left hand, which seems to be the case in most photos I’ve seen!

[Roddypeepa]

My 11 is about -3 av per day. But as a great man often says, 86400 in a day so no sweat.

Temp makes a difference for sure. Ambient temp.


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[You]

I prefer the 124060 and I have both.

[Bobcat Sig]

I’m totally co-opting this thread because for some dumb reason, I’m now hot on a no-date SubC.

Now, if you look at my collection, you’d see that I trend to bigger, foolish watches, with only a few exceptions. I like my watch with a bit of presence. The exceptions being my 1861 Speedmaster. The rest could be viewed as big or chunky; black Cerachrom GMT, several Panerais, an XL Planet Ocean, Sinn U2, even my Exp II Polar wears big.

By that, the outgoing 114060 should be my jam, right? Especially since I tend to go for watches out of production.

But... having not seen either the 114060 or the new 124060 in the metal; is there really that much of a difference?

[mgsooner]

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I’m totally co-opting this thread because for some dumb reason, I’m now hot on a no-date SubC.

Now, if you look at my collection, you’d see that I trend to bigger, foolish watches, with only a few exceptions. I like my watch with a bit of presence. The exceptions being my 1861 Speedmaster. The rest could be viewed as big or chunky; black Cerachrom GMT, several Panerais, an XL Planet Ocean, Sinn U2, even my Exp II Polar wears big.

By that, the outgoing 114060 should be my jam, right? Especially since I tend to go for watches out of production.

But... having not seen either the 114060 or the new 124060 in the metal; is there really that much of a difference?

Well as the starter of this whole ball of wax I guess I’ll chime in here. I wouldn’t say there’s a huge difference, no. In general I’d say the watch case of the 124 is in better proportion to the width of bracelet, which optically makes it appear trimmer than the 114. On the other hand, the dial of the 124 is slightly more spread out whereas in comparison the dial of the 114 looks a bit more “scrunched.” As some have pointed out these are not things normal, sane individuals would notice. But us watch obsessive types are a different breed. To try to sum it up the 124 just looks more like what a Sub has traditionally always looked like, whereas the 114 looks like more of an outlier.

[Gerardus]

Cool, but I keep my “old” movement.

[mr_gray]

the 11 series was not comfortable in my opinion. too heavy perhaps and as someone notes above an issue with the clasp too. the case was very sharp as it interacted with the wrist. i had many 11 series divers (114060, 116610lv and 116619lb) and deeply loved them but in the end i decided thinner watches are better and i couldn't live with 11 series bracelet. i went 5 digit with a 16618. amazing difference. happy. btw my research on this issue indicated that rolex comfort is about wearing it a little loose, something harder to do with very heavy watches, but easily achieved with 5 digit bracelet being much less substantial (but great for it imo).

the 124060 and just the idea of a new submariner has gripped me. if it were not for the 32xx issue i think i would be a buyer. the PR, the precision and the way such a watch can be strapped to a wrist and never removed is very attractive.

an essential quality re: rolex for me is seeing these watches as a very well made high technology piece of mechanical art. the story of the 5 digit tt which was found, after like 2 years, at bottom of north sea and kicked off again with a simple shake, that to me is what it is about. the documented 32xx issues negate that for me because there is no fix. if there was a permanent fix for it i wouldn't be bothered. the lack of fix for it, for me is brand eroding.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I’m totally co-opting this thread because for some dumb reason, I’m now hot on a no-date SubC.

Now, if you look at my collection, you’d see that I trend to bigger, foolish watches, with only a few exceptions. I like my watch with a bit of presence. The exceptions being my 1861 Speedmaster. The rest could be viewed as big or chunky; black Cerachrom GMT, several Panerais, an XL Planet Ocean, Sinn U2, even my Exp II Polar wears big.

By that, the outgoing 114060 should be my jam, right? Especially since I tend to go for watches out of production.

But... having not seen either the 114060 or the new 124060 in the metal; is there really that much of a difference?

It’s mainly aesthetics Ryan. If you’re really into watches, you’ll notice the subtle changes to the 124060 in terms of lug profile, bracelet and clasp size.

Of course there’s the crappy movement if you aspire to that sort of rhetoric

[guest1]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Honestly what I’d really like is the discontinued LN GMT. But no way I’m paying even the dropping secondary market prices for one of them.

I hear you brother. I'm after the exact same watch and I'm patiently waiting a good friend of mine sell me his one lol. Prices are still insane unfortunately. How I wish we went back four five years ago. I remember when our buddy here Jack T got a BNIB LN from his AD not too long ago. I remember thinking man what a score. This is a watch I'd love to own. I like my sports watches all black. When the honeymoon phase ended I sold my 5 digit coke a couple years ago. Couldn't stand that red anymore. Go figure. And the movement thing is a big deal to me. I'm thankful that Charles, Saxo, Driver8 all those guys had the 32xx thread going here. I check my watches every other day on Time.is and I've been doing that for decades. I can see myself doing the same thing with a watch with a 32xx and thinking is it today is it tomorrow that kind of thing. But that's ok. We're all different here so there's room for everyone.

[goldboy]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I agree the newer Sub wears slightly better, but the last gen's supercase's fat lugs are growing on me, no pun intended. One of those charms that comes with a discontinued watch I guess.

Basically the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s was the heyday of monster sized watches, and this gen was obviously Rolex's attempt to capitalize on that trend without reworking the Sub too much.

I'm totally speculating here of course, but I think the large watch trend was a fad that won't come back in a meaningful way in my lifetime. As such I kinda like your Sub as representing that era of watches. It's already more interesting to me from a visual standpoint than the 5 digits that preceded it and the new Sub. But again, I'm probably in the minority.

Absolutely nailed ittttt here.

It’s the classic mark of a Rolex era. People might be complaining about the proportions now because it’s such a recent model but give it some time, there will be people seeking out this model for its quirky fat lugs in the future.

[D007]

Sounds like a lot of people have their specific reasons for prefering one over the other (114060 vs 124060) such as the movement, lugs, bracelet thickness, clasp. But for me, the one reason I can’t bring myself to prefer the 11 over the 12 is the minute hand. On the 11 the minute hand is just a tad bit too short for my liking and on the 124060 they perfected it. Silly, but thats the differentiating factor for me.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by John1083

Foolhardy? Sure sure.

I wear my watches, I enjoy my watches.

I absolutely do NOT monitor their function electronically to find a +-2 second deviation in a 24 hour period. This is internet induced and laughable.

To the OP, buy the 124060 and enjoy the hell out of it, even if it could be “off” 2 seconds per day.

Good grief.


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Good grief John.
Don’t be foolhardy.

After a little research you will find that the long term issue with the 124060’s 3230 movement might not just be ‘2 seconds per diem’.

I am solidly in the mechanical camp over aesthetics.

[mattedialdoc]

Originally Posted by 28mm

a really good example with papers sold for around $12K on Moda this week..

I tried to buy one of these back when they were selling for msrp or below. NOBODY WANTED THESE. And this was only a few years ago. (Ok maybe 5 or 10)Everytime I asked my watch buddies “hey I think I should grab one of those LN GMTs..” , they were like naaaah man you don’t want that turkey. Same with the 16570…Lol. Tale as old as time!!


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[guest1]

Originally Posted by Andad

Good grief John.
Don’t be foolhardy.

After a little research you will find that the long term issue with the 124060’s 3230 movement might not just be ‘2 seconds per diem’.

I am solidly in the mechanical camp over aesthetics.

Of course. To be honest after almost ten years on the forum this is the first time I read about a choice between timekeeping and aesthetics. Watches are not ornaments so I always thought both aspects came together. You don't buy a watch when you don't like how it looks. Omg this watch looks so bad I love it. That doesn't make any sense. However, we always decided based on aesthetics but timekeeping/movement reliability was there in a 'ceteris paribus' sort of way. All movements were equally good and reliable, not only the ones made by Rolex but when compared to Omega etc. Now apparently there's a choice to be made between aesthetics and timekeeping and this is unheard of until the 32xx problems hit the fan. Big trouble in my humble opinion.

[Bobcat Sig]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Well as the starter of this whole ball of wax I guess I’ll chime in here. I wouldn’t say there’s a huge difference, no. In general I’d say the watch case of the 124 is in better proportion to the width of bracelet, which optically makes it appear trimmer than the 114. On the other hand, the dial of the 124 is slightly more spread out whereas in comparison the dial of the 114 looks a bit more “scrunched.” As some have pointed out these are not things normal, sane individuals would notice. But us watch obsessive types are a different breed. To try to sum it up the 124 just looks more like what a Sub has traditionally always looked like, whereas the 114 looks like more of an outlier.

Interesting. I can see what you mean. Thanks for the input. Good things to consider.

Originally Posted by mr_gray

the 11 series was not comfortable in my opinion. too heavy perhaps and as someone notes above an issue with the clasp too. the case was very sharp as it interacted with the wrist. i had many 11 series divers (114060, 116610lv and 116619lb) and deeply loved them but in the end i decided thinner watches are better and i couldn't live with 11 series bracelet. i went 5 digit with a 16618. amazing difference. happy. btw my research on this issue indicated that rolex comfort is about wearing it a little loose, something harder to do with very heavy watches, but easily achieved with 5 digit bracelet being much less substantial (but great for it imo).

the 124060 and just the idea of a new submariner has gripped me. if it were not for the 32xx issue i think i would be a buyer. the PR, the precision and the way such a watch can be strapped to a wrist and never removed is very attractive.

an essential quality re: rolex for me is seeing these watches as a very well made high technology piece of mechanical art. the story of the 5 digit tt which was found, after like 2 years, at bottom of north sea and kicked off again with a simple shake, that to me is what it is about. the documented 32xx issues negate that for me because there is no fix. if there was a permanent fix for it i wouldn't be bothered. the lack of fix for it, for me is brand eroding.

Admittedly, I haven’t spent much time on the Subs or their movements until recently. What’s the story with the 32xx movements?

Originally Posted by brandrea

It’s mainly aesthetics Ryan. If you’re really into watches, you’ll notice the subtle changes to the 124060 in terms of lug profile, bracelet and clasp size.

Of course there’s the crappy movement if you aspire to that sort of rhetoric

heh, I get that. I do appreciate those little details between watches and even different generations of the same model. I asked above; what’s the deal with the movement? Or is there a good spot to read up on it?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

Interesting. I can see what you mean. Thanks for the input. Good things to consider.







Admittedly, I haven’t spent much time on the Subs or their movements until recently. What’s the story with the 32xx movements?







heh, I get that. I do appreciate those little details between watches and even different generations of the same model. I asked above; what’s the deal with the movement? Or is there a good spot to read up on it?

Don't get me started

Yes there's a 32xx movement thread here that will document how horrible they are

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[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I asked above; what’s the deal with the movement? Or is there a good spot to read up on it?

There is a flaw with some of the movements which results in the seconds gear pivot wearing at an accelerated rate, resulting in the watch losing time (and, eventually, not working at all.)

When this issue pops up, there is usually a delay before sufficient wear occurs to cause issues (i.e., low amplitude, poor timekeeping), usually after a few months to a few years of ownership. We do not know how many of the movements are impacted by this, and there are some owners of early 3200 series movements who have not reported any issues at all, and it has also been described as "common". So the odds of it occurring are simply unknown. (Opinions on these odds can vary substantially.)

Presently, as far as we know, the solution is to overhaul the movement and lubricate, which doesn't seem to permanently fix the issue, as it's not unheard of for it to happen multiple times to the same watch. I say, "as far as we know," because there would likely be a time delay between when Rolex fixes the issue permanently and when we are aware of it.

Hopefully Rolex will permanently rectify this soon.