PM big scratch, what gives

[mafoofan]

Originally Posted by Mystro

“Sunshine Cloth” is better on 904L than the older Cape Cod cloth. It’s so good that all I have to do is wash the watch with Dawn dish soap and then a few lite strokes takes the hairline scratches out leaving a perfect mirror finish. I mean perfect as in macro pic picky. I keep the cloth stored in Ziploc bags in work work in ultra clean conditions. This is really the key to not contaminating your workspace or your polishing cloth.

Sunshine Cloth is a fine level of polishing so I don’t get any ultra fine scratching or hazing that can come from a slightly dirty Cape Cod cloth. To remove those, I use a combo of beeswax and carnauba wax that is in P21. I am a PCA concourse judge so automotive detailing goes hand in hand with a lot of this finicky watch polishing work. Sunshine cloth is now my #1 tool for enjoyment of PCL.
Any metal distortion comes from excessive heat which is next to impossible to achieve that level of heat unless your fingers are dremmel fast. I have polished enough SS firearms with buffing wheels to know a dremmel should never be used on any watch.
I would never let a Rolex dealer try to do a back room polishing as their work area won’t be clean enough and their methods will be bush league.
There are limits to the scratches a polishing cloth can be used on so deep gouging or pits will need to go back to a pro. Any sharp edges that have been dented can’t be fixed at home.
Sometimes a quick Sunshine cloth polish will reduce the marks around a deep scratch enough to satisfy/mask until they can be professionally polished on a routine service.

Super helpful! Did not appreciate the difference between Cape Cod versus Sunshine.

Would you mine breaking down in further detail what your application / buffing process is? I’d like to try this on some older watches of mine.

[JacksonRain]

Originally Posted by Mystro

“Sunshine Cloth” is better on 904L than the older Cape Cod cloth. It’s so good that all I have to do is wash the watch with Dawn dish soap and then a few lite strokes takes the hairline scratches out leaving a perfect mirror finish. I mean perfect as in macro pic picky. I keep the cloth stored in Ziploc bags in work work in ultra clean conditions. This is really the key to not contaminating your workspace or your polishing cloth.

Sunshine Cloth is a fine level of polishing so I don’t get any ultra fine scratching or hazing that can come from a slightly dirty Cape Cod cloth. To remove those, I use a combo of beeswax and carnauba wax that is in P21. I am a PCA concourse judge so automotive detailing goes hand in hand with a lot of this finicky watch polishing work. Sunshine cloth is now my #1 tool for enjoyment of PCL.
Any metal distortion comes from excessive heat which is next to impossible to achieve that level of heat unless your fingers are dremmel fast. I have polished enough SS firearms with buffing wheels to know a dremmel should never be used on any watch.
I would never let a Rolex dealer try to do a back room polishing as their work area won’t be clean enough and their methods will be bush league.
There are limits to the scratches a polishing cloth can be used on so deep gouging or pits will need to go back to a pro. Any sharp edges that have been dented can’t be fixed at home.
Sometimes a quick Sunshine cloth polish will reduce the marks around a deep scratch enough to satisfy/mask until they can be professionally polished on a routine service.

So if you had the option of a brand new sealed CC cloth and a brand new sealed Sunshine cloth, you would go with the sunshine brand? Why is it better on the 904l/oyster steel?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by JacksonRain

So if you had the option of a brand new sealed CC cloth and a brand new sealed Sunshine cloth, you would go with the sunshine brand? Why is it better on the 904l/oyster steel?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

Yes. I would recommend Sunshine cloth for every SS and PM. Best $13 you will ever spend for your watch collection. I like it better because it’s less abrasive. It seems to be the right ultrafine amount of polishing to remove our typical hairline scratches. It’s more gentile but you may have to rub a few more times but that is what you want. This is for weekly or monthly maintenance. Can do no harm with this gentle of a polishing compound.

Cape Cod is a bit more abrasive hence why you have to do a final buff after using it.
I switched over to the sunshine cloth five years ago when working a lot with 904l. CC was leaving too many micro scratches I had to then work to buff out.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Poli...s%2C181&sr=8-4

[AHG]

So in response to some of the comments:
1. I wore a sweatshirt. Sometimes it covered the watch and sometimes it touched the scratched surface. I'm willing to concede microscratches from clothing but not this. If it was that easy, it wouldn't make sense to have a gold watch.
2. At this point, wether it was the AD or not is a moot point and from now on I'll take pictures before ever handing my watch over to them.
3. I don't think I'm mentally ready to have a RSC do a polish this early in the life of the watch. I think I'll wear it for a while and see if more scratches build up. If they don't to a significant degree, we can assume it was likely a one time event that caused this. At that point, I'll still have to make the decision to live with it or consider a gentle polish.
4. At the end of the day, I got Oysterflex because I want to wear the heck out of this watch, so hopefully I can get over it with a bit of time.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Super helpful! Did not appreciate the difference between Cape Cod versus Sunshine.

Would you mine breaking down in further detail what your application / buffing process is? I’d like to try this on some older watches of mine.

I did a tutorial on this years ago I don’t know where it is on the forums.

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day. This will dramatically keep hairlines from even starting. I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn. You can wipe the crystal and ceramic with your shirt but that’s it.
Will go a long way in keeping hairline scratches off your watch to begin with.

To do a quick polishing touch up: You need to start out with an ultra clean watch. That means it must be thoroughly rinsed and washed and Dawn dishwashing soap and dried.

I break out the magnifying lamp or even reader glasses so I can really inspect what I’m doing. Work area has got to be operating room clean. Pending upon where the scratches are but let’s assume it’s on the clasp since that’s where most hairlines occur. Wash your hands now that your work area is set up. Take your sunshine cloth out of the package and put it over the pad of your thumb. Use your thumb with the cloth over it to lightly do long smooth strokes over the scratched area. Never do short choppy strokes. (a this is a common mistake) Make sure the pressure is the same from beginning to the end of a long smooth stroke and don’t stop the motion until you are off the end of the clasp. You will get a feel for it to know about how much pressure to use. You never have to bear down as we are just lightly and gradually removing the hairline scratch with long smooth strokes from one end of the clasp to the other. Very Zen like.

Never put the polishing cloth down on any surface other than back into a clean zip plastic bag. If you drop the cloth or it gets any dirt in it, it’s done for watch polishing. The Sunshine cloth will get black and that is a good thing. Now you have a ultra fine finishing cloth with the black areas. Use the fresh clean yellow areas to start the polish and the black discolored areas of the cloth to finish the polishing. This is where the artistic fun come in.

Note: If the scratches are close to any brushed finish, use blue painters tape and mask that area off that way we can get a clean polished area right up to the edge.

The take away is: long smooth strokes. Never short choppy strokes and keep the cloth moving until off the metal being worked on. Tape off any areas of brushed finishes. You want a perfect bright polished finish right up next to the brushed finish.

[imsayingthough]

Looks rough for a brand new watch

[Sub*Man]

Originally Posted by AHG

So in response to some of the comments:
1. I wore a sweatshirt. Sometimes it covered the watch and sometimes it touched the scratched surface. I'm willing to concede microscratches from clothing but not this. If it was that easy, it wouldn't make sense to have a gold watch.
2. At this point, wether it was the AD or not is a moot point and from now on I'll take pictures before ever handing my watch over to them.
3. I don't think I'm mentally ready to have a RSC do a polish this early in the life of the watch. I think I'll wear it for a while and see if more scratches build up. If they don't to a significant degree, we can assume it was likely a one time event that caused this. At that point, I'll still have to make the decision to live with it or consider a gentle polish.
4. At the end of the day, I got Oysterflex because I want to wear the heck out of this watch, so hopefully I can get over it with a bit of time.

Youve got it figured out mate. Do exactly this. And if you take it to the AD for anything, make sure the watchmaker makes the changes.

[MrMercedes]

Originally Posted by Mystro

No it certainly does not. A cape cod cloth erases fine scratches and swirl marks leaving a factory finish. The OP just needs a few minutes of lite rubbing over those marks. My favorite is a “Sunshine cloth”. I use it on Rolex 904l, Yellow 18k, Everose gold. Gold is the easiest to get a perfect factory finish. Just start with a clean watch before rubbing over the marks.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Poli...s%2C192&sr=8-5


15 years of wearing a TT Sub and using a polishing cloth. Show me any signs this 15 year old watch doesn’t look factory fresh from using a polishing cloth for all those years.

100% right!! (btw: good job!)

[whited3]

Agree with all this. And I prefer this over gambling on an AD or service center polish. I'd wager you polish various other things than just watches (and no that's not an enuendo )

Originally Posted by Mystro

I did a tutorial on this years ago I don’t know where it is on the forums.

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day. This will dramatically keep hairlines from even starting. I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn. You can wipe the crystal and ceramic with your shirt but that’s it.
Will go a long way in keeping hairline scratches off your watch to begin with.

To do a quick polishing touch up: You need to start out with an ultra clean watch. That means it must be thoroughly rinsed and washed and Dawn dishwashing soap and dried.

I break out the magnifying lamp or even reader glasses so I can really inspect what I’m doing. Work area has got to be operating room clean. Pending upon where the scratches are but let’s assume it’s on the clasp since that’s where most hairlines occur. Wash your hands now that your work area is set up. Take your sunshine cloth out of the package and put it over the pad of your thumb. Use your thumb with the cloth over it to lightly do long smooth strokes over the scratched area. Never do short choppy strokes. (a this is a common mistake) Make sure the pressure is the same from beginning to the end of a long smooth stroke and don’t stop the motion until you are off the end of the clasp. You will get a feel for it to know about how much pressure to use. You never have to bear down as we are just lightly and gradually removing the hairline scratch with long smooth strokes from one end of the clasp to the other. Very Zen like.

Never put the polishing cloth down on any surface other than back into a clean zip plastic bag. If you drop the cloth or it gets any dirt in it, it’s done for watch polishing. The Sunshine cloth will get black and that is a good thing. Now you have a ultra fine finishing cloth with the black areas. Use the fresh clean yellow areas to start the polish and the black discolored areas of the cloth to finish the polishing. This is where the artistic fun come in.

Note: If the scratches are close to any brushed finish, use blue painters tape and mask that area off that way we can get a clean polished area right up to the edge.

The take away is: long smooth strokes. Never short choppy strokes and keep the cloth moving until off the metal being worked on. Tape off any areas of brushed finishes. You want a perfect bright polished finish right up next to the brushed finish.

[AHG]

So does Sunshine need anything added to it?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Mystro

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day....I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn.

This should be part of the new owners training manual. I have 100% adhered to this since 2019 and it is accurate.

[TswaneNguni]

Cape cod will remove those marks very easily on the polished gold .

Personal experience,20 years .

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Mystro

No it certainly does not. A cape cod cloth erases fine scratches and swirl marks leaving a factory finish. The OP just needs a few minutes of lite rubbing over those marks. My favorite is a “Sunshine cloth”. I use it on Rolex 904l, Yellow 18k, Everose gold. Gold is the easiest to get a perfect factory finish. Just start with a clean watch before rubbing over the marks.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Poli...s%2C192&sr=8-5


15 years of wearing a TT Sub and using a polishing cloth. Show me any signs this 15 year old watch doesn’t look factory fresh from using a polishing cloth for all those years.

My 2008 Blue TT Sub 16613 ...I do exactly the same ,Looks like new .

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by bp1000

This

I don’t think of gold as “very” soft

I wear gold watches regularly and have some with a decade of wear. They don’t disintegrate like cheese.

The marks shown would be a heavily worn watch for 10 years. They messed up.

From my own wear, scratches and dents on gold would look exactly the same as on SS. A few more fine micro scratches which make mirrored finishes look a big duller maybe but that’s about it.

This

[Liga]

How about a picture of the bracelet you wear with the watch?

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I did a tutorial on this years ago I don’t know where it is on the forums.

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day. This will dramatically keep hairlines from even starting. I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn. You can wipe the crystal and ceramic with your shirt but that’s it.
Will go a long way in keeping hairline scratches off your watch to begin with.

To do a quick polishing touch up: You need to start out with an ultra clean watch. That means it must be thoroughly rinsed and washed and Dawn dishwashing soap and dried.

I break out the magnifying lamp or even reader glasses so I can really inspect what I’m doing. Work area has got to be operating room clean. Pending upon where the scratches are but let’s assume it’s on the clasp since that’s where most hairlines occur. Wash your hands now that your work area is set up. Take your sunshine cloth out of the package and put it over the pad of your thumb. Use your thumb with the cloth over it to lightly do long smooth strokes over the scratched area. Never do short choppy strokes. (a this is a common mistake) Make sure the pressure is the same from beginning to the end of a long smooth stroke and don’t stop the motion until you are off the end of the clasp. You will get a feel for it to know about how much pressure to use. You never have to bear down as we are just lightly and gradually removing the hairline scratch with long smooth strokes from one end of the clasp to the other. Very Zen like.

Never put the polishing cloth down on any surface other than back into a clean zip plastic bag. If you drop the cloth or it gets any dirt in it, it’s done for watch polishing. The Sunshine cloth will get black and that is a good thing. Now you have a ultra fine finishing cloth with the black areas. Use the fresh clean yellow areas to start the polish and the black discolored areas of the cloth to finish the polishing. This is where the artistic fun come in.

Note: If the scratches are close to any brushed finish, use blue painters tape and mask that area off that way we can get a clean polished area right up to the edge.

The take away is: long smooth strokes. Never short choppy strokes and keep the cloth moving until off the metal being worked on. Tape off any areas of brushed finishes. You want a perfect bright polished finish right up next to the brushed finish.

Thank you Mystro, your watches look immaculate.
I used CC in the past and wasn’t to happy with the result so I stopped using it altogether.
My watches have now built up a nice even patina with thousands of scratches. Doesn’t really bother me but I still like to tinker with my watches for indeed the Zen experience and will give the sunshine cloth a try.

Do you use purple scotch brite for the brushed parts ?

[mafoofan]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I did a tutorial on this years ago I don’t know where it is on the forums.

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day. This will dramatically keep hairlines from even starting. I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn. You can wipe the crystal and ceramic with your shirt but that’s it.
Will go a long way in keeping hairline scratches off your watch to begin with.

To do a quick polishing touch up: You need to start out with an ultra clean watch. That means it must be thoroughly rinsed and washed and Dawn dishwashing soap and dried.

I break out the magnifying lamp or even reader glasses so I can really inspect what I’m doing. Work area has got to be operating room clean. Pending upon where the scratches are but let’s assume it’s on the clasp since that’s where most hairlines occur. Wash your hands now that your work area is set up. Take your sunshine cloth out of the package and put it over the pad of your thumb. Use your thumb with the cloth over it to lightly do long smooth strokes over the scratched area. Never do short choppy strokes. (a this is a common mistake) Make sure the pressure is the same from beginning to the end of a long smooth stroke and don’t stop the motion until you are off the end of the clasp. You will get a feel for it to know about how much pressure to use. You never have to bear down as we are just lightly and gradually removing the hairline scratch with long smooth strokes from one end of the clasp to the other. Very Zen like.

Never put the polishing cloth down on any surface other than back into a clean zip plastic bag. If you drop the cloth or it gets any dirt in it, it’s done for watch polishing. The Sunshine cloth will get black and that is a good thing. Now you have a ultra fine finishing cloth with the black areas. Use the fresh clean yellow areas to start the polish and the black discolored areas of the cloth to finish the polishing. This is where the artistic fun come in.

Note: If the scratches are close to any brushed finish, use blue painters tape and mask that area off that way we can get a clean polished area right up to the edge.

The take away is: long smooth strokes. Never short choppy strokes and keep the cloth moving until off the metal being worked on. Tape off any areas of brushed finishes. You want a perfect bright polished finish right up next to the brushed finish.

Awesome.

So, if doing the polished side of the case:

1. Lightly swipe the Sunshine cloth across the full length, over and past the lug tips and with no pressure. Go back and forth or only in one direction?

2. After finished with step #1, do I need to buff or polish with some other material or method?

[subx]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I did a tutorial on this years ago I don’t know where it is on the forums.

The most effective tip I can tell you is never wipe any smudges or dirt off of a dry watch with your shirt throughout the day. This will dramatically keep hairlines from even starting. I know it’s tempting to wipe your watch off but resist it and only wipe the metal clean when it’s wet using a dish soap like Dawn. You can wipe the crystal and ceramic with your shirt but that’s it.
Will go a long way in keeping hairline scratches off your watch to begin with.

To do a quick polishing touch up: You need to start out with an ultra clean watch. That means it must be thoroughly rinsed and washed and Dawn dishwashing soap and dried.

I break out the magnifying lamp or even reader glasses so I can really inspect what I’m doing. Work area has got to be operating room clean. Pending upon where the scratches are but let’s assume it’s on the clasp since that’s where most hairlines occur. Wash your hands now that your work area is set up. Take your sunshine cloth out of the package and put it over the pad of your thumb. Use your thumb with the cloth over it to lightly do long smooth strokes over the scratched area. Never do short choppy strokes. (a this is a common mistake) Make sure the pressure is the same from beginning to the end of a long smooth stroke and don’t stop the motion until you are off the end of the clasp. You will get a feel for it to know about how much pressure to use. You never have to bear down as we are just lightly and gradually removing the hairline scratch with long smooth strokes from one end of the clasp to the other. Very Zen like.

Never put the polishing cloth down on any surface other than back into a clean zip plastic bag. If you drop the cloth or it gets any dirt in it, it’s done for watch polishing. The Sunshine cloth will get black and that is a good thing. Now you have a ultra fine finishing cloth with the black areas. Use the fresh clean yellow areas to start the polish and the black discolored areas of the cloth to finish the polishing. This is where the artistic fun come in.

Note: If the scratches are close to any brushed finish, use blue painters tape and mask that area off that way we can get a clean polished area right up to the edge.

The take away is: long smooth strokes. Never short choppy strokes and keep the cloth moving until off the metal being worked on. Tape off any areas of brushed finishes. You want a perfect bright polished finish right up next to the brushed finish.

GREAT ADVICE and GREAT EXPLANATION

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Awesome.

So, if doing the polished side of the case:

1. Lightly swipe the Sunshine cloth across the full length, over and past the lug tips and with no pressure. Go back and forth or only in one direction?

2. After finished with step #1, do I need to buff or polish with some other material or method?

Small amount of pressure but slightly more as you go over the actual scratches. You never bear down with your thumb. Your thumbs pad will evenly distribute the pressure across the case. You can go in both directions. Once the main scratches start to disappear, your thumb pressure will lighten up almost like you’re feathering out the force as you finish. You will probably not have to do anything after step one. This polishing technique is very much like sharpening a blade if you know how to do that.

[Deepseadoug]

Looks like it was dropped on a concrete floor and then instead of reaching under the workbench to grab it the Ad used the top of their shoe n slid the watch towards them out from under said work bench. Gonna need a light touch up I don’t see any dents or chunks missing so you’ll be ok.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by joli160

Thank you Mystro, your watches look immaculate.
I used CC in the past and wasn’t to happy with the result so I stopped using it altogether.
My watches have now built up a nice even patina with thousands of scratches. Doesn’t really bother me but I still like to tinker with my watches for indeed the Zen experience and will give the sunshine cloth a try.

Do you use purple scotch brite for the brushed parts ?

This is another similar technique. I prefer to use a green Scotch-Brite pad with yellow sponge. A new one to get rid of the scratch and orient the striations. Then I finish with a well used green Scotch-Brite pad as being used gives it a less aggressive texture. This 2 step is the key to a Rolex Factory brushed finish.

This clasp shows both scotchbrite and sunshine cloth treatment. I taped off the polish section first and did the Scotch-Brite treatments. Then I taped off the brushed finish and polished the center link. I learned to do this with a older Omega SMP bracelet that really was intricate to tape off polished and brushed sections. I refurbed the entire bracelet and clasp to new. Compared to that, a Rolex bracelet is easy.

Once you learn to do these little tricks you will enjoy your watch so much more. You won’t have much of any pressure worrying about minor hairline scratches because you can address them as you see them on polished and brushed surfaces. I dive with all my watches without any fear.
Disclosure: Bad scratches or dents need to go to a professional like Rikki or RSC. What we are doing is basically like detailing and maintaining a fine automotive paint job.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by AHG

So does Sunshine need anything added to it?

No.

I can almost tell you what they exactly did to your watch to get those marks. The watch was sat down in a dirty work environment on a hard surface. They then applied pressure as it sat on its side as they fiddled with it. The rounded side of the case rocked back-and-forth leaving those marks in a rolling motion. Those actions are negligence but more importantly they would have left very similar marks on a 904l ss. I would never let them touch my watch again.
Silver lining is they didn’t drop the watch or dent the case. This means it will not require laser welding and the scratches as bad as they look, are relatively superficial. These are scratches you wouldn’t have picked up in normal day-to-day use from a coat rubbing against the case unless it was a biker jacket with zippers. Had it not had a ceramic bezel, the sides of the bezel would have also been scratched up badly.

[AHG]

Originally Posted by Mystro

No.

I can almost tell you what they exactly did to your watch to get those marks. The watch was sat down in a dirty work environment on a hard surface. They then applied pressure as it sat on its side as they fiddled with it. The rounded side of the case rocked back-and-forth leaving those marks in a rolling motion. Those actions are negligence but more importantly they would have left very similar marks on a 904l ss. I would never let them touch my watch again.
Silver lining is they didn’t drop the watch or dent the case. This means it will not require laser welding and the scratches as bad as they look, are relatively superficial. These are scratches you wouldn’t have picked up in normal day-to-day use from a coat rubbing against the case unless it was a biker jacket with zippers. Had it not had a ceramic bezel, the sides of the bezel would have also been scratched up badly.

This is exactly what I think. Even if I had it on a hard surface a few times, I'd have to roll it back and forth to get these marks.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by AHG

This is exactly what I think. Even if I had it on a hard surface a few times, I'd have to roll it back and forth to get these marks.

Yup. Those type of cloudy scratches are rather hard to get with normal use.

[chicagowatchman]

I use red jewelers rouge with a soft leather schame and it keeps the mirror finish

[joli160]

Thank you very much for sharing your techniques. Stunning results. Just ordered the Sunshine cloth from Amazon.

[alind]

Originally Posted by Master_Grogu

TRF two days ago:

“Wow your well worn 116618 is looking magnificent, we forget Rolex are made to be lived with! Glorious!”

TRF today:

“This Daytona is ruined and my disappointment immeasurable”

That is pretty funny...

Although I have to say, if someone else scratched my brand new watch like that I would not be a happy camper

[AHG]

Yeah, believe me, I feel disgusted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[alind]

Originally Posted by AHG

Yeah, believe me, I feel disgusted.

Yeah, really sorry to hear about your watch. No disrespect intended!

I always buy watches with stickers so I can enjoy seeing them slowly age over the years from my own use. I feel your pain.

[Danny83]

Take it to La Watchworks