Bought from well known grey dealer - RSC says warranty voided

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by rpstrimple

I didn't know polishing voids RSC warranty. Good to know. I'd rather them list it unpolished to ensure warranty is intact. I understand why they polish them, but on a watch with a card, seems like you are inviting issues like this.

Originally Posted by hello93

Does polishing watches go against the warranty policy by Rolex?

I had a similar issue. Bought from a "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF (he is still very active). Watch came to me with factory stickers everywhere on the case, bracelet, end links, back etc. and with 1 year remaining on the factory warranty. I took it in to RSC NY for a lug/end link issue and was told that the band had been previously polished in that exact area and warranty was voided. I explained to the "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF and provided him the RSC receipt copy, and he dismissed it, saying that he sources the best watches and that RSC NY doesn't know what they are talking about. He continued that I should instead send it in to the Dallas RSC and hope for the best. He never followed up with my again after that and did not offer to make it right. That was the last time I use this Gray dealer for anything.

[OYptL]

Originally Posted by Scholar

Wait, RSC will not honor a watch warranty if it got a “third party repair”?

So if I took a Rolex to a nearby independent with a Rolex parts account for a service, that would void warranty? Doesn’t sound right… It might be true, but stupid if so.

I don’t think so. You play by Rolexes rules.

[Number3]

Originally Posted by Alan111

I had a similar issue. Bought from a "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF (he is still very active). Watch came to me with factory stickers everywhere on the case, bracelet, end links, back etc. and with 1 year remaining on the factory warranty. I took it in to RSC NY for a lug/end link issue and was told that the band had been previously polished in that exact area and warranty was voided. I explained to the "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF and provided him the RSC receipt copy, and he dismissed it, saying that he sources the best watches and that RSC NY doesn't know what they are talking about. He continued that I should instead send it in to the Dallas RSC and hope for the best. He never followed up with my again after that and did not offer to make it right. That was the last time I use this Gray dealer for anything.

Who was the dealer?

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Scholar

Wait, RSC will not honor a watch warranty if it got a “third party repair”?

So if I took a Rolex to a nearby independent with a Rolex parts account for a service, that would void warranty? Doesn’t sound right… It might be true, but stupid if so.

I don't know in th US but in Italy the answer is definitely yes, your warranty will be voided.

[rolexandlange]

Originally Posted by fmc000

I don't know in th US but in Italy the answer is definitely yes, your warranty will be voided.

with a worldwide service guarantee Rolex aims to be consistent. that's almost gospel for much of what they do.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by Number3

Who was the dealer?

I don't think it will help naming the dealer. What will help is spreading the information that an advertised "XXX years remaining on Rolex warranty" means nothing if coming from a Gray dealer. Sure, there is a possibility that the watch was never opened or polished, but most watches coming from the Grays are touched up and that will void a warranty.

[RyanJ]

I think the better thing to learn from this is Rolex makes the ultimate decision on whether or not to do warranty work or even void the factory warranty.

Many dealers on the secondary market have their own watchmakers (or places they send them to) and if Rolex really starts putting the hammer down on "work done by a third party" we will be seeing this more and more.

I also wonder if the reason we don't see this a lot more is because Rolex watches are fairly dependable so not many buying from the secondary market have to send it in to RSC for a while, if at all.

[amh]

Originally Posted by Alan111

I don't think it will help naming the dealer. What will help is spreading the information that an advertised "XXX years remaining on Rolex warranty" means nothing if coming from a Gray dealer. Sure, there is a possibility that the watch was never opened or polished, but most watches coming from the Grays are touched up and that will void a warranty.

No - it means that Watchbox claims are crap. (And they still have the opportunity to clear their name and make things right)

I've purchased several watches via Grey and the warranty was fine.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by amh

No - it means that Watchbox claims are crap. (And they still have the opportunity to clear their name and make things right)

I've purchased several watches via Grey and the warranty was fine.

I'm not commenting on Watchbox - never dealt with them. I'm happy that your purchases with a Gray was good and the warranty was fine. If the watch case or bracelet is in any way polished, the warranty is void. This is something that is a surprise to many. Ultimately it is up to the RSC what they want to cover under warranty.

[HiBoost]

The cynic in me has to wonder if, in the face of widely reported increases in necessary services, RSC has been told to raise the bar for honoring warranty claims. I.e. "find any reason you can to legitimately deny doing this for free".

Voiding for polishing is still complete crap (Porsche can't void your powertrain warranty if you had the car detailed, that would be illegal). But if there are any internal signs of tamper then it's completely reasonable to deny warranty work in my opinion. Once confirmed somebody was inside, all bets are off and a full service would be mandatory in order to provide any guarantee on the work.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

The cynic in me has to wonder if, in the face of widely reported increases in necessary services, RSC has been told to raise the bar for honoring warranty claims. I.e. "find any reason you can to legitimately deny doing this for free".

Voiding for polishing is still complete crap (Porsche can't void your powertrain warranty if you had the car detailed, that would be illegal). But if there are any internal signs of tamper then it's completely reasonable to deny warranty work in my opinion. Once confirmed somebody was inside, all bets are off and a full service would be mandatory in order to provide any guarantee on the work.

All logical and I agree with you on all points.

[SlideRacker]

Originally Posted by huncho

i always consider giant grey dealers like bobs or watchbox to be worse than a trusted seller here. those big greys just have too much overhead and volume to be able to attend to every little thing. they're also the first thing people find when looking to go grey so they rely less on word of mouth from clients. from everything i've read on this site, trusted sellers always make things right in cases like this. i guess we'll see what watchbox does

Agreed. Big isn't necessarily better. I don't consider these guys in the same league as the elite level trusted sellers.

[puckybadger]

Lots of Grey's open the watch and provide pics of the movement to verify authenticity.
Can RSC tell if a caseback has been opened?

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

The cynic in me has to wonder if, in the face of widely reported increases in necessary services, RSC has been told to raise the bar for honoring warranty claims. I.e. "find any reason you can to legitimately deny doing this for free".

Voiding for polishing is still complete crap (Porsche can't void your powertrain warranty if you had the car detailed, that would be illegal). But if there are any internal signs of tamper then it's completely reasonable to deny warranty work in my opinion. Once confirmed somebody was inside, all bets are off and a full service would be mandatory in order to provide any guarantee on the work.

To be fair to Rolex, a polishing job could theoretically be used to hide damage done to a watch that would indicate it had been in some sort of accident like a drop/fall/etc.

Same if you bring your Porsche in for a suspension issue but you changed the body panels to try and hide the fact you had a bender.

Either way the grey dealer is always the point of contact as they sold a watch that wasn't as described. My best guess is they will never answer. If they had the intention of making good on this, they would have answered immediately. I definitely can't take a business serious that still hasn't replied after so long. Unacceptable.

[321Forever]

Ughh...I'm so glad this is being discussed on RF. I would not have expected this particular scenario. It makes me feel badly for folks who go grey, either to get the new hard-to-find models, or to save some $$$, and still have warranty coverage.

One solution, to only purchase out-of-warranty watches, doesn't work for those who are seeking the latest and newest models. So, from an informed consent perspective, this information is valuable and could result in better language from sellers:

"It is possible that the remaining warranty on this watch will not be honored by the manufacturer. This may be a result of the preparation we take prior to sale of the watch, or taken by others prior to our acquisition of the watch, or by any other factors. In the event that the manufacturer fails to honor the warranty, we [will/will not] be responsible for covering the cost of manufacturer recommended care."

[aa909]

Originally Posted by Ks6pd

hopefully the grey will make it right for you. Keep us posted.

A little surprised at the RSC response. Just for discussion sake, if someone opened the case back to confirm authenticity, is that enough for RSC to say "evidence of 3rd party repair"?

that's a good question. If it was just opened then closed how would RSC even know, unless there is some kind of seal?

[rpstrimple]

Originally Posted by Alan111

I don't think it will help naming the dealer. What will help is spreading the information that an advertised "XXX years remaining on Rolex warranty" means nothing if coming from a Gray dealer. Sure, there is a possibility that the watch was never opened or polished, but most watches coming from the Grays are touched up and that will void a warranty.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have always made sure that when buying grey they are full sets with manufacturer warranty card for the sole reason of making sure I will have a warranty if something goes awry (and not those 1 year grey warranties that are basically meaningless).

Guess I will be more careful/selective from now on. A lot of shadiness has taken place under the cover of an overheated market, and I do agree that if the watch has been polished and warranty knowingly voided, it should not be sold with the card. But we all know that won't happen.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by aa909

that's a good question. If it was just opened then closed how would RSC even know, unless there is some kind of seal?

No, I don't think opening and closing breaks a seal. I think when looking at the movement under a loupe, they might find dust or scar marks from screwdrivers. That is probably what they use as their tell.

[rpstrimple]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

The cynic in me has to wonder if, in the face of widely reported increases in necessary services, RSC has been told to raise the bar for honoring warranty claims. I.e. "find any reason you can to legitimately deny doing this for free".

Voiding for polishing is still complete crap (Porsche can't void your powertrain warranty if you had the car detailed, that would be illegal). But if there are any internal signs of tamper then it's completely reasonable to deny warranty work in my opinion. Once confirmed somebody was inside, all bets are off and a full service would be mandatory in order to provide any guarantee on the work.

The cynic part of me says they are pissed that a lot of them are being flipped and are starting to really run the background of the watch before accepting a warranty claim. I'll take my large tinfoil hat off now.

[Ferdelious]

Originally Posted by Scholar

Wait, RSC will not honor a watch warranty if it got a “third party repair”?

So if I took a Rolex to a nearby independent with a Rolex parts account for a service, that would void warranty? Doesn’t sound right… It might be true, but stupid if so.

I think that is pretty common in most industries. If product is under warranty it must be serviced by someone who is authorized or its voided. My company has the same policy.

[321Forever]

This boils down to the reality that you need to be aware of the risks of going grey.

Mind you, there are risks buying from ADs and boutiques, too. You can buy a stale watch from an AD that immediately requires service, and the AD stands back and does nothing (been there, done that).

[aa909]

Originally Posted by jakemeister

This boils down to the reality that you need to be aware of the risks of going grey.

Mind you, there are risks buying from ADs and boutiques, too. You can buy a stale watch from an AD that immediately requires service, and the AD stands back and does nothing (been there, done that).

LOL yup, been there done that as well

[alphadweller]

Thank you OP for sharing your experience.

It goes to show that when you buy preowned from a dealer, you just don't know the history of the watch. Anything could have happened to it. If I buy preowned, I want to buy from the first owner, ideally see the original bill of sales and absolutely run it pass the RSC before committing to buy.

I would consider grey dealers at a discount to cover the cost of a service. But that's me, I'm content with my collection. We have different priorities and might be at a different stages of our journey. My first Rolex came from a grey dealer, sold as NOS with stickers on, 33% off from retail, different times though.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by JRell

Sorry to hear - just another reason I would never go grey for a modern Rolex.

lucky you. Not all of us get offered the watches we actually want. Its grey or nothing.

That said, most of the biggest (at least the best) grey dealers offer their own warranties. Now if the warranty is void, that loss of value should be accounted for.

Either way every grey (or trusted) seller i've worked with wouldn't hesitate to make this right.

There's no right or wrong way to getting the watch you truly want and love. If you can get directly from an AD that's wonderful. Nothing wrong with going grey just have to make sure they can be trusted.

[ippon20]

Originally Posted by puckybadger

Lots of Grey's open the watch and provide pics of the movement to verify authenticity.
Can RSC tell if a caseback has been opened?

Yup

[321Forever]

Someday, Rolex watches will be filled with a tiny bladder filled with a complicated mix of inert gases. Upon spectrographic analysis, they will then be able to determine if the case back is opened, as the bladder will tear upon release.

Or...it could be the Sharpie penned initials of the watchmaker that gives it away...lol.

[funkright]

Originally Posted by Alan111

I had a similar issue. Bought from a "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF (he is still very active). Watch came to me with factory stickers everywhere on the case, bracelet, end links, back etc. and with 1 year remaining on the factory warranty. I took it in to RSC NY for a lug/end link issue and was told that the band had been previously polished in that exact area and warranty was voided. I explained to the "well-known gray dealer" here on TRF and provided him the RSC receipt copy, and he dismissed it, saying that he sources the best watches and that RSC NY doesn't know what they are talking about. He continued that I should instead send it in to the Dallas RSC and hope for the best. He never followed up with my again after that and did not offer to make it right. That was the last time I use this Gray dealer for anything.

This is why people need to confirm who've they've dealt with We can all learn who and who not to deal with, but if names are left out all are painted with the same brush

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by alphadweller

With a gross magin of 40 to 50%? Even if they lose a possible 8% net margin, they're still getting paid and covering costs. So they'll be fine making the OP whole.

Watchbox isn't acquiring at wholesale or MSRP, but from individuals. On hot, easy-to-turn models, guessing the GM is way less.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by rolexandlange

with a worldwide service guarantee Rolex aims to be consistent. that's almost gospel for much of what they do.

Though in actuality it will vary country to country based on specific laws covering warranties.

Originally Posted by Alan111

I don't think it will help naming the dealer. What will help is spreading the information that an advertised "XXX years remaining on Rolex warranty" means nothing if coming from a Gray dealer. Sure, there is a possibility that the watch was never opened or polished, but most watches coming from the Grays are touched up and that will void a warranty.

Once again, question is: Are they explicitly stating time left on warranty, or when warranty began ticking? If it's the latter, buyers may make an assumption, but legally seller is covered if warranty is in fact void.

[Hawkeye98]

I’ve purchased three pieces from WB (1 Tudor, 2 Rolexes) and have had excellent experiences each time. I even traded in a piece to them. I suspect you’ll be able to reach some sort of resolution with them as they pride themselves on C/S. Best of luck and keep us posted.


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