The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Thursday 20 February 2025 @ 10:14:36 am

Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6 September 2021, 04:42 AM   #121
pp4daytona
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Play View Post
Genuine question. Quite a few people here convinced Rolex are losing a lot of business to other brands due to shortages (I’m not convinced).

How many of you saying this have started off looking for a particular Rolex model and ended up purchasing something else. I’d be very interested to hear what Rolex you planned to purchase and what watch you ended up purchasing instead.

Before I realized how hard to get a Daytona, it’s the one I was looking for. After that, I have been looking for a batman and DJ41. Today, I started to question if I want to get it or look for another brand. I still could not find the one I like more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
pp4daytona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 04:46 AM   #122
johnwigan
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 377
Crappy customer experience and empty display cases are not viable in the long term. What is the point of an AD with no watches to show or try on. Might as well order online, that would be less hassle than traveling to an empty shop.

We are in a Covid perfect storm but eventually it will pass. The government has been giving out vast quantities of free money. The bill will land on people's doormats soon. Two percent increase in NI is just a starter in the UK.

Someone traveling to an AD and being treated like crap is not a winning strategy for Rolex or for any company. And there are lots of stories on these boards of people being treated appallingly by ADs which benefits Rolex not one iota. In fact it damages the Rolex brand. No question. I know a small number of gentleman pay ladies of the night to kick them in the nuts for kicks (and I think a lot of them post on these boards) but most people want to be treated nice. Bad customer experience is bad, never good, and no company wants to offer that experience.

A bit of patience is needed. I wouldn't be paying inflated prices or buying stuff I don't want unless you're still ok with that when availability returns to normal - which it will. And I hope people on these boards return the favour to those ADs who treated you like crap when they're looking for your business in the future.
johnwigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 04:47 AM   #123
Deppe
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
Once upon a time the AD-grey dealer was symbiotic and tacitly approved by Rolex.

That was in the bad old days when ADs had trouble selling everything, and that’s when greys stepped in to pick up excess inventory at a discount so the AD could make room for new incoming stock from Rolex.

The AD would then resell all this stock at a greater discount, but still with a margin for themselves obviously.

Rolex is a very understanding supplier so they closed one eye to this practice.

However times are completely different now, and the grey is no longer needed to serve this function of cleaning up left overs, because there are no leftovers.

ADs no longer have any excuse to call on the greys and Rolex knows it (they know everything that is happening).

ADs now even have the strength to end discounting.

What purpose does a grey dealer now serve to ADs (and Rolex by extension)?

None at all, in fact now they are an overall negative part of the chain because they facilitate sales of BNIBs from flippers to genuine buyers.

Anyone who thinks that the ADs supply greys with large quantities of watches is just plain wrong.

Rolex will come down very hard on those that do, except where they are in jurisdictions where Rolex has no levers to pull, such as having connections to the ruling elites.

But logic never convinces people that ADs aren’t supplying greys because they all want somebody to blame for the fact that they can’t get what they want from an AD.

Simple demand exceeds supply will not do because blame must be assigned to someone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Quote:
Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
It’s still too much for many to grasp here.

For them MSRP must be the market price, because that’s:

a) how Rolex priced it
b) mass produced
c) it’s not worth more than that
d) insert whatever reason that has absolutely nothing to do with price discovery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wholeheartedly agree with your points. Thank you!
Deppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 05:01 AM   #124
telesquire
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 379
I'd never consider another brand....had a TAG when I was a teenager, bought a Rolex at 20 and never looked back. Oh had a 90s Tudor once....poor quality back then. So I'd wait or go grey.
telesquire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 06:26 AM   #125
bob sims
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Fl
Posts: 1,165
A lot of blah blah blah on this thread but bottom line is they will keep raising prices and keep selling every watch year after year.
bob sims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 06:46 AM   #126
Harry-57
2025 Pledge Member
 
Harry-57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Harry
Location: England
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin2drt View Post
So why bother having empty cases or making ADs reserve the real estate in
their store when they will never fill them. Let them reserve about 5 watch spaces and use the rest of the real estate to actually sell something.
This will vary by AD. My AD has built an in store Rolex boutique where you won't sae anything that is not Rolex - even if it's a sparsely filled display case with Rolex written on it. They can't use this area to sell any other brand. If this was somehow killing their business they would do something about it. They are not inclined to.

So what's the attraction? In the case of my AD it's the ability to sell most of their Rolex inventory before it's even shipped, and to sell everything else in weeks without a discount on any model. They have increased their profit margins on Rolex sales two years in succession. Sure, they could sell some hot models 10 times over. Any AD could. But the profit on every Rolex they buy is maximum. You can't hope for anything more than maximum profit. Their display cases are not embarrassing them - they are too busy counting their earnings!

If this model is unsustainable and will kill sales (the operative word being if), I'm genuinely interested to know over what time scale this is anticipated to happen. If waiting lists evaporate, discounts on MSRP will follow. I personally don't see this happening, but I'm not a expert. Those who are convinced that it will, might like to throw in some additional information. Are there any comparable case studies out there?
Harry-57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 07:07 AM   #127
macrowatch
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 4,366
Macroeconomically, long term, yes. A lot of the extra liquidity is a one time thing. Incomes not rising enough (relative to rent) for the vast majority of people. So say 2-3 years to burn off and DJ and go back to normal. But of course controlled supply like Daytona normal has always been VVIP only.) Maybe just down from VVVVVVIP to VVIP.
macrowatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 07:50 AM   #128
skp
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Play View Post
Genuine question. Quite a few people here convinced Rolex are losing a lot of business to other brands due to shortages (I’m not convinced).

How many of you saying this have started off looking for a particular Rolex model and ended up purchasing something else. I’d be very interested to hear what Rolex you planned to purchase and what watch you ended up purchasing instead.
I’m looking for a dress piece on a leather strap. I would have loved to get a Cellini but now am looking ad GS.

Back when I purchased my lv sub, I was offered a gmt master as well. Back then I couldn’t justify spending that much on two watches in one shot. Now that my appreciation for watches have increased, I can’t even get on a list for a gmt. I’ll be purchasing a tudor GMT even with the date wheel issue not being resolved.

I’m fine with not always being able to get what I want but what is a little annoying is that the ADs are no longer offering a discount on Omega, GS and Tudor. Maybe a complimentary nato strap if I purchase on the bracelet.
skp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 01:24 PM   #129
Nidal
"TRF" Member
 
Nidal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA
Watch: SubC LV
Posts: 1,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcash0615 View Post
Seriously doubt anything will change on the supply side by the end of the year. I suspect the current situation will remain for quite some time.

Fact.
Till the market catches up, AD will hoard watches in the vault


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nidal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 01:26 PM   #130
Nidal
"TRF" Member
 
Nidal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA
Watch: SubC LV
Posts: 1,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes77 View Post
I think things remain the same in the next 2-3 years

Correct


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nidal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 01:53 PM   #131
csaltphoto
"TRF" Member
 
csaltphoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: US
Watch: sub
Posts: 2,458
I don't see things changing soon. When you have major players posting on IG with a Rolex when they could literally afford anything... I mean heck, most of the swiss watch makers would GIVE these guys a watch if they would post a pic wearing it. But nope. They want to wear a medium priced steel watch.
csaltphoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 08:32 PM   #132
johnwigan
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 377
Watch enthusiasts may put up with crappy customer experience. Regular people buying a retirement watch, birthday, something for partner will not. They will chose another brand. Availability back to normal, selling more watches benefits Rolex in £££. Crappy customer experience, shortages costs Rolex £££. Would be customers go elsewhere. And most Rolex are sold to regular people, not watch enthusiasts. After all Rolex is a mass market product, not a bespoke watchmaker selling small volumes.

Some posters on these forums (for various reasons) may like it but Rolex does not. They are building to expand production and increase supply to record levels and increase their sales and profits.

The amateur flippers better make hay whilst the sun shines for them because this will not be permanent. Those paying inflated prices for current models - fine so long as you are ok with your watch being worth less than what you paid for it. Rolex does not care, they are interested in their own profits, not flippers or grey dealers.
johnwigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 09:02 PM   #133
Mini2
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Uk
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-57 View Post
This will vary by AD. My AD has built an in store Rolex boutique where you won't sae anything that is not Rolex - even if it's a sparsely filled display case with Rolex written on it. They can't use this area to sell any other brand. If this was somehow killing their business they would do something about it. They are not inclined to.

So what's the attraction? In the case of my AD it's the ability to sell most of their Rolex inventory before it's even shipped, and to sell everything else in weeks without a discount on any model. They have increased their profit margins on Rolex sales two years in succession. Sure, they could sell some hot models 10 times over. Any AD could. But the profit on every Rolex they buy is maximum. You can't hope for anything more than maximum profit. Their display cases are not embarrassing them - they are too busy counting their earnings!

If this model is unsustainable and will kill sales (the operative word being if), I'm genuinely interested to know over what time scale this is anticipated to happen. If waiting lists evaporate, discounts on MSRP will follow. I personally don't see this happening, but I'm not a expert. Those who are convinced that it will, might like to throw in some additional information. Are there any comparable case studies out there?
What I see happening is waiting times will decrease but if they ever became non existent I think rolex would slow production to artificially create them lead times again but by reducing numbers they would have lower incomings so prices would have to adjust in % on what they are reducing IMO
Mini2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 09:03 PM   #134
Mini2
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Uk
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidal View Post
Fact.
Till the market catches up, AD will hoard watches in the vault


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is happening, Asked about a watch which was not on display (ladies) and when I came in and spoke to them within 5 minutes from the safe we have options but the important question is why are these not on display?
Mini2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 09:25 PM   #135
johnwigan
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini2 View Post
What I see happening is waiting times will decrease but if they ever became non existent I think rolex would slow production to artificially create them lead times again but by reducing numbers they would have lower incomings so prices would have to adjust in % on what they are reducing IMO
This makes absolutely no sense. They are not going to idle their own production capacity costing themselves £££ to benefit amateur flippers. The more watches they sell the more £££ they make. They are increasing production to meet higher demand, as any business would.
johnwigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 09:59 PM   #136
garyk
2025 Pledge Member
 
garyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Real Name: Gary
Location: USA
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 11,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob sims View Post
A lot of blah blah blah on this thread but bottom line is they will keep raising prices and keep selling every watch year after year.
I agree! Use to see some discounting years ago but the prices kept increasing.
__________________
garyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 10:25 PM   #137
teck21
"TRF" Member
 
teck21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Real Name: Teck
Location: South East Asia
Watch: Tudor Black Bay 58
Posts: 1,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwigan View Post
They are increasing production to meet higher demand, as any business would.
Rolex are quite simply, not any business.

A quick search of this forum will explain why if you’re inclined to find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
teck21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 10:37 PM   #138
IamJacky
"TRF" Member
 
IamJacky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 1,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwigan View Post
The more watches they sell the more £££ they make. They are increasing production to meet higher demand, as any business would.
But then Rolex is not just any business, they're a private company that do not need to answer to shareholders. I believe pure monetary profit is not what they're solely after; they're in for the long game, they're after prestige and legacy for generations to come, and increasing production/supply to meet surged demand will inevitably tarnish its brand image in the long run and thus it's not in their best interest to do so.

I think Rolex will just continue to produce in similar capacity as they did in the past (minus the COVID factor which caused the reduced production). I don't have any real data, but if historically Rolex has increased its production capacity by X% per annum then that's what they'll continue to do, just as they historically increased MSRP gradually. With that said, I think availability will get slightly better, but as long as people desire Rolex more than other brands, Rolex watches will remain difficult to obtain at ADs.

Many argued that the empty cases at ADs or crappy attitudes will turn off its customer base which I do not disagree, but judging from the established, more-than-ever thriving secondary market, clearly Rolex is attracting unprecedented amount of new buyers.
__________________
Two-Factor Authentication Enabled
IamJacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 10:47 PM   #139
Deppe
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by csaltphoto View Post
I don't see things changing soon. When you have major players posting on IG with a Rolex when they could literally afford anything... I mean heck, most of the swiss watch makers would GIVE these guys a watch if they would post a pic wearing it. But nope. They want to wear a medium priced steel watch.
This is actually an excellent point. One thing is paid brand ambassadors - I mean I couldn’t care less that David Beckham wears a Tudor because it is no secret that he is paid to do so. However, all those people who have no affiliation with Rolex and that could buy literally any watch they want, still for a large part chooses to wear Rolex. That is marketing you can’t pay for. LeBron James can be seen wearing some wild Pateks, but the next day he is wearing a standard Tiffany or red OP.
Deppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 10:50 PM   #140
Wahlberg
"TRF" Member
 
Wahlberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Paris
Posts: 3,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
It’s still too much for many to grasp here.

For them MSRP must be the market price, because that’s:

a) how Rolex priced it
b) mass produced
c) it’s not worth more than that
d) insert whatever reason that has absolutely nothing to do with price discovery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do you ever talk about anything else besides repeating the same old stuff?
Wahlberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 10:58 PM   #141
teck21
"TRF" Member
 
teck21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Real Name: Teck
Location: South East Asia
Watch: Tudor Black Bay 58
Posts: 1,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahlberg View Post
Do you ever talk about anything else besides repeating the same old stuff?

I don’t change my mind unless I find the counter arguments compelling.

You read it knowing full well I stick to my points?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
teck21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 11:19 PM   #142
johnwigan
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
Rolex are quite simply, not any business.

A quick search of this forum will explain why if you’re inclined to find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, they are just a business, subject to the same pressures and motivations as any other business. They are not magic or powered by unicorns.This is fanboy nonsense. Sorry. Rolex sell watches. That's it.
johnwigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6 September 2021, 11:36 PM   #143
johnwigan
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJacky View Post
But then Rolex is not just any business, they're a private company that do not need to answer to shareholders. I believe pure monetary profit is not what they're solely after; they're in for the long game, they're after prestige and legacy for generations to come, and increasing production/supply to meet surged demand will inevitably tarnish its brand image in the long run and thus it's not in their best interest to do so.
Lots of businesses are privately owned.

Profit is what they are after. Sure they want long term profits and they want to protect and grow their brand, like every other business. The rest of that is fanboy nonsense.

Rolex are currently building new facilities to increase production.

Just a reminder: Rolex availability returning to normal is good news, not bad news. Inflated prices are bad news - if you just want to buy a watch to wear on your wrist.

We shall see what happens in the coming years.
johnwigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 12:01 AM   #144
Daytonaman799
2025 TitaniumYM Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/South Fl
Watch: Rolex, Patek
Posts: 3,737
My AD told me that They aren’t taking Day Date orders anymore…let alone professional models and they have zero in the cases. It’s really nuts.
Daytonaman799 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 12:13 AM   #145
lis
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: East Coast
Watch: GMT 1675
Posts: 154
I wonder how this will all impact next generation of watch shoppers. I took one of my older kids with me to the Rolex store in Berlin and she left absolutely confused why a store that had watches (they had everything on display and let me try on a few) did not actually sell watches. When I tried to explain the Rolex attraction she sighed and pointed to all the other watch boutiques and suggested I was insane. I admit I still want the Rolex OP that I am trying to get but my point is that maybe younger watch aficionados may not have the same patience we have. Then again I know there are lots on the forum who are getting a Rolex as their first watch so I suppose for everyone one person who decides to go with another brand, they are likely two who stick with Rolex. I don’t know. I do know I’m losing personal hope on getting an OP (no sales history etc at the AD) and am starting to look at a Tudor BB58.
lis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 12:23 AM   #146
Anestheticsaregood
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: North East USA
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by lis View Post
I wonder how this will all impact next generation of watch shoppers. I took one of my older kids with me to the Rolex store in Berlin and she left absolutely confused why a store that had watches (they had everything on display and let me try on a few) did not actually sell watches. When I tried to explain the Rolex attraction she sighed and pointed to all the other watch boutiques and suggested I was insane. I admit I still want the Rolex OP that I am trying to get but my point is that maybe younger watch aficionados may not have the same patience we have. Then again I know there are lots on the forum who are getting a Rolex as their first watch so I suppose for everyone one person who decides to go with another brand, they are likely two who stick with Rolex. I don’t know. I do know I’m losing personal hope on getting an OP (no sales history etc at the AD) and am starting to look at a Tudor BB58.
The kicker is you can have ANY Rolex you want in a few days from the grey market. You just have to pay up
Anestheticsaregood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 12:45 AM   #147
Deppe
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwigan View Post
Rolex are currently building new facilities to increase production.
Are there any official sources regarding the new facilities and increased production?
I have seen it posted a couple of times, but I have not been able to find any sources. Not saying that I don't believe it to be true, but I would think that it would be big news in the watch world at least.
Deppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 01:08 AM   #148
YGRLX
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: N/A
Posts: 564
Gonna get worse…
YGRLX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 02:02 AM   #149
ThatOtherGuy7
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 545
I think availability will get much quite a bit better. Here are my thoughts:
1. Because of Covid, production was more limited. It seems like things are moving towards normalcy.
2. Because of Covid, people weren’t traveling much or spending money on things they normally would. Hence the reason for uptick in demand for luxury products.
3. As the economy recovers, Fed tapering off things, unemployment benefits expire, etc. there will be less desire to buy luxury items.
ThatOtherGuy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7 September 2021, 02:33 AM   #150
IamJacky
"TRF" Member
 
IamJacky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 1,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwigan View Post
Lots of businesses are privately owned.

Profit is what they are after. Sure they want long term profits and they want to protect and grow their brand, like every other business. The rest of that is fanboy nonsense.

Rolex are currently building new facilities to increase production.

Just a reminder: Rolex availability returning to normal is good news, not bad news. Inflated prices are bad news - if you just want to buy a watch to wear on your wrist.

We shall see what happens in the coming years.
I'm just saying Rolex as a privately owned company have other priorities than straight profit, money is the least they have to worry about. They are looking at the ocean, not waves. But then again it's just my fanboy nonsense, so like you said, we shall see in the coming years.
__________________
Two-Factor Authentication Enabled
IamJacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

My Watch LLC

Takuya Watches

DavidSW Watches

OCWatches

Wrist Aficionado

WatchShell


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2025, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.