Which Independents Are You Watching?

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

It features more hand finishing than brands like Jaeger or GO! IMO it is totally high horology :)

And all the parts are cut from scratch by hand at the factory. No milling.

[WatchEater666]

Bumppp

[break]

Excited to have secured my first Moser. Should arrive sooner or later.

After my first WatchTime I’m not entirely sure. Laurent Ferrier makes stunning pieces, but I might want more classically inspired independent design. Something closer to a Breguet 3130 than LF or Moser. Maybe a Moritz Grossmann?

[windingmybusiness]

Originally Posted by break

Excited to have secured my first Moser. Should arrive sooner or later.

After my first WatchTime I’m not entirely sure. Laurent Ferrier makes stunning pieces, but I might want more classically inspired independent design. Something closer to a Breguet 3130 than LF or Moser. Maybe a Moritz Grossmann?

Which Moser did you order?

[JMac6]

I am all in on the Berneron Mirage:



I thought the article on Revolution was very well done: https://revolutionwatch.com/sylvain-...th-the-mirage/

[abacona]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

L’Essentiel ‘Tree of Life’ by Hervé Schlüchter

Decent hand-finishing. Very wearable 39mm x 10.37mm.

Very cool. How much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by abacona

Very cool. How much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CHF 78,000

https://monochrome-watches.com/intro...w-specs-price/


Great piece!

[enjoythemusic]

All of them that i can find info on :)

Also check out https://www.thelimitededition.co.uk

[break]

Originally Posted by windingmybusiness

Which Moser did you order?

Will share details once it’s in hand!

[Armis]

Originally Posted by JMac6

I am all in on the Berneron Mirage:

This is indeed unique and interesting in a similar way to the Cartier Crash.
Thanks for the link.

[John Doyle]

I might receive some heat but due to my financial situation, i am only interested in Rolex and Patek Philippe as independents. Can't afford venturing out of really known territories for the time being.

[ChetBaker]

Due to my financial situation, I only dine at 2-Michelin-starred restaurants. Can’t afford venturing into 3-starred restaurants for the time being.

[cal14]

Berneron Mirage is just incredible!

[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Due to my financial situation, I only dine at 2-Michelin-starred restaurants. Can’t afford venturing into 3-starred restaurants for the time being.

This

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Due to my financial situation, I only dine at 2-Michelin-starred restaurants. Can’t afford venturing into 3-starred restaurants for the time being.

Due to my mechanical timepiece 'habit', i can only afford to dine at McD's and Arby's* . Love me that MEAT sandwich

*Carnie food is also acceptable.

[GB-man]

To me that’s just about the dumbest design I’ve seen for any watch. Even having read how he did it. It’s the most contrived plan that doesn’t work aesthetically at all. Basically he tried to create a crash adjacent watch using Lange 1 design principles and the result is laughably bad.

[INC]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

CHF 78,000

https://monochrome-watches.com/intro...w-specs-price/


Great piece!

Great price!

If you feel that it is expensive, simply compare this masterpiece with the cheap and ugly look of a Nautilus or a Platona Choose wisely!

[WatchEater666]

I am really confused by new independents with zero history of delivering purses and running a successful business asking for similar amounts that established guys charge.

[Ichiran]

It's worth every Franc.

[ChetBaker]

I agree. We’ve had at least 8-10 young watchmakers burst onto the scene in the past couple of years. All using the same business model it seems. Very limited production, high-end finishing, crazy complications, extortionate prices, all paid upfront so the customer finances your business. With hardly any overhead, marketing / r&d budgets, or customer care teams you’d think they could sell at 40k and still make a healthy profit. Why all of these watches must be at least 70-80k and up is beyond me, reeks of price gouging. And yes, i’d LOVE to own one of them.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

It's worth every Franc.

I can never get enough photos of this watch. It’s one of my absolute favorite releases from the past few years.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

...reeks of price gouging. And yes, i’d LOVE to own one of them.

All good

(Said in friendly humor and truth) No worries. Get a 1960's 'Holy Trinity' brand for about the same price. Easy solution.

Ok, yeah, sure, the 1960's Holy Trinity retail brand name may not be as well finished with the truly tough hand decoration bits, and the 1960's Holy Trinity retail brand may use a mass-produced 'in-house' movement, yet you'll proudly be able to tell everyone at the next GTG you have a 1960's Holy Trinity watch.

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i'm elated we're seeing the 'young kids' doing their own thing. We need MORE of this! That's all part of the art of horology, which is filled with such stories of those going out on their own to offer fine timepieces. It's better than being just another 'cog' worker.

George Daniels, for example, seemed to have experienced working for... and let us all thank God he went out on his own. George even invented a new thing, which was turned down by certain brands (which we all know OMEGA now uses :) ).

[ChetBaker]

No need to make this about Patek or Vacheron again. All I said was that the price the new crop of independents want for their product is very, very high. And they can only do that because of extremely low quantities and a business model that is incomparable to the established high horology brands. That’s too bad for me and no doubt many others, but that’s market forces at play. Just as the market will decide which of these watchmakers will still be around in 5 years and truly independent, without support from investors.

[enjoythemusic]

Good points Chet, though the timepieces being produced look to me to have impressive hand craftsmanship. Some may desire that over 'typical' movements / watches. Because it takes more time and skill, the pricing imho is commensurate for the ask. You make an excellent point about the market deciding.

No doubt the market is the hottest it's ever been in many, many decades, and perhaps one day we'll be saying these were the good ol' days. More brands than ever, from micro to mass-produced... and true independent watchmakers. We've never had more choices as best I can recall.

PS: Right now it is the easiest in human history to 'make' your own mechanical timepiece from a plethora of bits you can purchase online. Heck, even G-Shocks and the like can easily be modded to your own personal liking.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I can never get enough photos of this watch. It’s one of my absolute favorite releases from the past few years.

Both young watchmakers Gael and Florian are friendly, responsive and respectful. My experience with them is nothing short of exemplary. I wish them every success and hope to buy more of their watches

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Both young watchmakers Gael and Florian are friendly, responsive and respectful. My experience with them is nothing short of exemplary. I wish them every success and hope to buy more of their watches

It’s always great to hear nice things about the people behind the watches. And leave some of their stuff for the rest of us :).

[Kingofbears]

Noob question - As far as i know Sylvain Berneron has a background in designing. Is he also a watchmaker? or is it easy to create a watch on your own?

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

No need to make this about Patek or Vacheron again. All I said was that the price the new crop of independents want for their product is very, very high. And they can only do that because of extremely low quantities and a business model that is incomparable to the established high horology brands. That’s too bad for me and no doubt many others, but that’s market forces at play. Just as the market will decide which of these watchmakers will still be around in 5 years and truly independent, without support from investors.

I guess would we see any of this without the craze the last few years? Already seeing prices for many brands drop very quickly. I'd love to pick up a piece or two but I'm sure like others hesitate on the watchmakers longevity. That's why I don't worry about people like Thierry or FPJ who seem to have a clear vision and plan for their future.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Due to my mechanical timepiece 'habit', i can only afford to dine at McD's and Arby's* . Love me that MEAT sandwich

*Carnie food is also acceptable.

I am bordering on homelessness but I have my watches.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I am really confused by new independents with zero history of delivering purses and running a successful business asking for similar amounts that established guys charge.

First, I must say that I would love to own many of the new pieces from the new independents. But...

I start to get this uneasy feelings too. There are a lot of new and young independents who are coming out with watches of similar price point. (Very high) And it seems like a lot of their common theme is low production, very high grade hand finish but most are lacking innovation in complication or chronometry.

I lived through the 2000 Internet bubble when every company with the name .com fetches sky high valuation and this...