How many of you are into shoes... (Dress Shoes)?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dddrees

My advice to you would be to invest some time and do some research first. Do your best to take your time and understand exactly why something from John Lobb cost more than something from Allen Edmonds. Because after all as I have said previously in this thread a shoe from both brands will potentially last the same amount of time, however being able to appreciate the differences and understanding what the differences are makes the purchase of something from John Lobb truly worth the extra cost. Understand also that just because your determined to get something from John Lobb doesn't mean that the the Last from John Lobb will fit you any better than something from Allen Edmonds. In fact you may find you may achieve a better fit with something from Allen Edmonds.

Personally I started ourchasing shoes from Allen Edmonds and gradually went to Alden, Carmina, Crockett and Jones, Alfred Sargent, Vass, John Lobb, St Crispins, Gaziano and Girling, and Edward Green. I have decide I prefer shoes from the top tier shoemakers and no longer care to purchase from some of the mid tier or lower tier shoemakers and I know exactly why I do not. I don't necessarily recommend this approach as it will cost you more money in the long run. But I do know what is a good fit and I do know exactly why it is that I prefer to do so.

The following is an excellent place to start. The reason being this is where there are more experts and more opinions than just the few that hang out in this thread. I highly encourage you to take a look here. There arte a number of appreciation threads for a number of different brands and some vendor threads. Its a mixed bag but overall if you take your time and gho thru the threads that interest you the most and do some research you can get some extremelt valuable information here.

Don't l;ose sight that if it doesn't fit it doesn't matter how much you spend it just wont work for you. Also do yourself a gigantic favor and don't just focus on one brand. Take a look at the others as well as though some brands are known for certain styles and some of these may appeal to you that other brands are capable of equally marvelous things as well. That is as long as it FITs you.

http://www.styleforum.net/f/5/classic-menswear

P.S. Don't jump in with both feet too quickly. After purchasing your first pair take your time and move slowly. The slower you go the less regrets you may have later.

Thanks Dan. All good advice.

FWIW, I am a researcher by nature. I enjoy the acquisition of knowledge as much at the acquisition of product, if that makes sense. I also won't buy a pair of shoes that don't fit, which is why online shopping for shoes is a bit of a no-go proposition for me. I really do require a fitting before I'll buy anything more expensive than flip flops.

John Lobb is convenient, because they are an hours drive away. But I'll look around for others that may be in the region.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Thanks Dan. All good advice.

FWIW, I am a researcher by nature. I enjoy the acquisition of knowledge as much at the acquisition of product, if that makes sense. I also won't buy a pair of shoes that don't fit, which is why online shopping for shoes is a bit of a no-go proposition for me. I really do require a fitting before I'll buy anything more expensive than flip flops.

John Lobb is convenient, because they are an hours drive away. But I'll look around for others that may be in the region.

I can certainly understand anyone's reluctance to buying a shoe without being able to try it on first. Heck there's are a good number of people who still make mistakes when being able to try them on before buying.

I believe you will find some useful information in the reference I provided. You may want to take a look at the John Lobb appreciation thread.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/337243/j...n-thread/0_100


Good luck and you will have to let us know how this goes.


Cheers,

Dan

P. S. I would certainly think given your region you will have access to a number of other shoemakers and certainly a good number of top tier shoemakers. I higly recommend Edward Green, Gaziano and Girling, St Crispins, and there are others its just that these are the ones I have experience with and they are considered top tier shoemakers.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I've been fortunate I haven't had many issues with the number of Lasts I've actually purchased. Since I've made most of these purchases via the Internet I would actually say ive been extremely fortunate. The thing is not trying before buying isn't the ideal situation whatsoever. However given my location and my passion for quality footwear if I wished to purchase these shoes my options were limited so I made the best of the situation. I attribute my success to the following things:

Knowing my Brannock size.

Establishing my size in other known Lasts locally via a few Allen Edmond and Alden purchases.

Knowing what a good fit means.

Conducting research and determining my size on other Lasts via determining what others did when they had the same size on my known Lasts vs the Last I was considering buying.

Trying on the same Last whenever possible.

Asking for sizing advice from competent retailers.

Stealing clear of problematic Lasts.

Be willing to deal with the consequences when all else fails. Being able to return is a good thing but in theory this only practically works with shoes ordered stateside due to the additional shipping fees and customs fees one normally has to pay.

Typically steering clear of GMTOs and MTOs until my size in a particular Last is established.

Finally in my case having a fairly average foot with not to large of a foot in a medium width.

By no means will this work for everyone and I have seen a number of others who have had to sell their new shoes because they were unable to get a good fit.


FIT is KING!!

I forgot to mention another important aspect.

One should also understand the size conversion for the shoemaker one is considering with regards to length and width. Different shoemakers tend to be different in this regard. For example Edard Green in a UK 11 E tends to equates to US 11 1/2 D. However for John Lobb a UK 11 tends to equate to a US 12. St Crispins average width is an F which tends to equate to a US D width.

So although Axels in Colorado sells Edward Green shoes in the D width, in actuality these are a Edward Green D width shoe which is a more narrow and not a medium width shoe.

Doing a bit of research does tend to help understand these things.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I can certainly understand anyone's reluctance to buying a shoe without being able to try it on first. Heck there's are a good number of people who still make mistakes when being able to try them on before buying.

I believe you will find some useful information in the reference I provided. You may want to take a look at the John Lobb appreciation thread.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/337243/j...n-thread/0_100


Good luck and you will have to let us know how this goes.


Cheers,

Dan

P. S. I would certainly think given your region you will have access to a number of other shoemakers and certainly a good number of top tier shoemakers. I higly recommend Edward Green, Gaziano and Girling, St Crispins, and there are others its just that these are the ones I have experience with and they are considered top tier shoemakers.

Great link Dan. I enjoyed the reading.

The more I read, the more I need to read. I now know that I really don't know how do buy good shoes.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Great link Dan. I enjoyed the reading.

The more I read, the more I need to read. I now know that I really don't know how do buy good shoes.

Well you may or may not know how to buy them, it's just with a number of users their experiences and somethings from various sources there certainly is a chance that there maybe some things you weren't aware of. Like I said it's a mixed bag, but there are some hidden nuggets that certainly has helped me in the past and from time to time now and in the future as well.

You may or may not enjoy the following as well. As I said try to keep an open mind with regard to shoemakers. It is entirely possible you still may chose John Lobb, but th4e more you know the better off you are is the way I look at it. Fit is the most important thing and in some cases you might get lucky and be able to wear shoes and boots from more than one brand.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/291745/e...e-to-buy/0_100

http://www.styleforum.net/t/236162/g...ures-etc/0_100

http://www.styleforum.net/t/257353/s...n-thread/0_100

[daveathall]

I have Shoes made by Church's, C&J, Trickers, Loake and Cheaney and must admit that I would be very wary of buying shoes online just because of the size variations, the makers above that I have mentioned range from a UK8 to a UK9 in my case. I suppose that once one has their size in a given maker it would be fine to then buy un tried, although I do find that the cheaper makers in my collection are not as exact in their sizing as the more expensive ones.

I often research using dddrees excellent write ups and links, as well as drooling over his absolutely wonderful collection of shoes and boots.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I have Shoes made by Church's, C&J, Trickers, Loake and Cheaney and must admit that I would be very wary of buying shoes online just because of the size variations, the makers above that I have mentioned range from a UK8 to a UK9 in my case. I suppose that once one has their size in a given maker it would be fine to then buy un tried, although I do find that the cheaper makers in my collection are not as exact in their sizing as the more expensive ones.

I often research using dddrees excellent write ups and links, as well as drooling over his absolutely wonderful collection of shoes and boots.

Thank you Dave.

I understand where your are coming from, and I can't blame anybody for not wanting to buy shoes online before being able to try a Last on in person. There are no guarantees that the list of things I mentioned which have worked for me will work for others.

The main problem for some of course is where they live and if they have the occasion to travel to places where they maybe able to access the shoes which they may want to buy. But depending on where you live there maybe other possibilities than what you where initially aware of.

Even as willing as I was to conduct and purchase things via the internet I verified it in person whenever I had the possibility. Initially I found a shoe store which sold but did not carry many Alden shoes and ordered two sizes of the same shoe and paid for the one that fit. In fact this and a purchase at Brooks Brothers helped me to lock in my size on a couple of known Lasts so I could order from the internet. I used places such as Brooks Brothers to try on a few different shoes such as Alden and Edward Green. I purchased two Lindricks from Ralph Lauren via the Internet to discover my size in the 325 trickier Last and returned the one that didn't fit and paid return shipping. This cost me only seven dollars and I was able to purchase a Lindrick and a pair of Marlows which both where on sale when I bought them based on this information. Then once you get the Last dialed in or nailed down then ordering shoes online is not so daunting. Of course some stores have more customer friendly return policies than others and you want to be aware of this before purchasing. Some you can return with little or no cost, some you may pay return shipping, some will not issue a refund but they will issue a store coupon for the same amount, and some are even more difficult with returns. Just know what your dealing with before you purchase.

A good number of my shoes could not have been tried on before buying as they were ordered via a Group Made To Order (GMTO) or Made To Order (MTO) and this is where you really have more flexibility with regards to various colors, leathers, and Lasts that may not be stocked or things which are fairly rare if not very few ever made if any. But most of these where done only after ensuring I had my size dialed in.

So depending on where you live you may have access to more than what you realize. But even if there are no or little Brick and Mortar locations where you live you may have the ability to order from a few internet sites where for the cost of return shipping you might be able to try on some at home with little risk.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Thank you Dave.

I understand where your are coming from, and I can't blame anybody for not wanting to buy shoes online before being able to try a Last on in person. There are no guarantees that the list of things I mentioned which have worked for me will work for others.

The main problem for some of course is where they live and if they have the occasion to travel to places where they maybe able to access the shoes which they may want to buy. But depending on where you live there maybe other possibilities than what you where initially aware of.

Even as willing as I was to conduct and purchase things via the internet I verified it in person whenever I had the possibility. Initially I found a shoe store which sold but did not carry many Alden shoes and ordered two sizes of the same shoe and paid for the one that fit. In fact this and a purchase at Brooks Brothers helped me to lock in my size on a couple of known Lasts so I could order from the internet. I used places such as Brooks Brothers to try on a few different shoes such as Alden and Edward Green. I purchased two Lindricks from Ralph Lauren via the Internet to discover my size in the 325 trickier Last and returned the one that didn't fit and paid return shipping. This cost me only seven dollars and I was able to purchase a Lindrick and a pair of Marlows which both where on sale when I bought them based on this information. Then once you get the Last dialed in or nailed down then ordering shoes online is not so daunting. Of course some stores have more customer friendly return policies than others and you want to be aware of this before purchasing. Some you can return with little or no cost, some you may pay return shipping, some will not issue a refund but they will issue a store coupon for the same amount, and some are even more difficult with returns. Just know what your dealing with before you purchase.

A good number of my shoes could not have been tried on before buying as they were ordered via a Group Made To Order (GMTO) or Made To Order (MTO) and this is where you really have more flexibility with regards to various colors, leathers, and Lasts that may not be stocked or things which are fairly rare if not very few ever made if any. But most of these where done only after ensuring I had my size dialed in.

So depending on where you live you may have access to more than what you realize. But even if there are no or little Brick and Mortar locations where you live you may have the ability to order from a few internet sites where for the cost of return shipping you might be able to try on some at home with little risk.

I happened into Brooks Brothers in Abu Dhabi (Yas Mall) today. They had exactly one cap toe oxford, Allen Edmonds ("for Brooks Bros"). The salesman could not tell me anything about the shoe. It had a GYW, but the salesman didn't know that either.

Normally, I wear a US 10 (UK9.5) D. They had a 10D in stock, but they were too narrow. They don't carry anything wider than D in any size in that store. The next size up would have been an 11D, which would be a flipper on me.

There were a few flaws in the shoe, like stray thread ends, a wiggle in the stitching line, and an uneven edge near the heel that didn't strike me as a well finished shoe.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I happened into Brooks Brothers in Abu Dhabi (Yas Mall) today. They had exactly one cap toe oxford, Allen Edmunds ("for Brooks Bros"). The salesman could not tell me anything about the shoe. It had a GYW, but the salesman didn't know that either.

Normally, I wear a US 10 (UK9.5) D. They had a 10D in stock, but they were too narrow. They don't carry anything wider than D in any size in that store. The next size up would have been an 11D, which would be a flipper on me.

There were a few flaws in the shoe, like stray thread ends, a wiggle in the stitching line, and an uneven edge near the heel that didn't strike me as a well finished shoe.

Yep, it all depends on the Brooks Brothers at your location and a lot of times this depends a lot on the location of the store. The Brooks Brothers near me may carry a few Allen Edmonds shoes but that is the best they will ever carry. They wont even carry some of their Peal and Co shoes which tend to be lower grades of Alfred Sargents, Crockett and Jones, Loake, or some others. However when visiting a Brooks Brothers in Chicago they may carry a few Edward Greens which they have in stock, not a large stock and maybe not my size but there will be a few. They only typically sell a few Edward Green shoes anyway but then again they will order a few in a couple different sizes so that you can try them on and pick the one that fits before you purchase. Also during their annual corporate 30% off sale Edward Greens with shoe trees are a rather good deal.

Frankly Allen Edmonds wouldn't be my first choice and that's for a number of reasons. However given there price point, their availability in the US, and the ability to get seconds at even a much better price they do have their place in the GYW RTW shoe market. Besides their customer service will replace a pair of shoes for you even if it takes 3 or 4 times if not more to get it right. But yes they wouldn't be my first choice.

It would be nice but I wouldn't expect most SAs to be that knowledgeable about their product unfortunately. Besides when they do know what they are talking about and that is far and few between it helps to be an educated buyer so that one is able to cut through the sales stuff and know what your getting. The best chance you have of meeting some SA who knows what he or she is talking about when speaking about shoes is someone who works at a place that only sells shoes. Then again like I said it helps to have as much knowledge that you can first.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. The sight I provided you also has a thread related to Brooks Brothers and other retailers as well if you care to check those out. It can pay off to have a better idea as to what you can expect and when you can pick up a few deals. I don't consider myself cheap but I would much rather save $500 on a pair of shoes or boots whenever I possibly can. Sales also happen from time to time and if they just so happen to have one I was interested in anyway and it will cost me a couple of hundred less I am always open to a good deal.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Yep, it all depends on the Brooks Brothers at your location and a lot of times this depends a lot on the location of the store. The Brooks Brothers near me may carry a few Allen Edmonds shoes but that is the best they will ever carry. They wont even carry some of their Peal and Co shoes which tend to be lower grades of Alfred Sargents, Crockett and Jones, Loake, or some others. However when visiting a Brooks Brothers in Chicago they may carry a few Edward Greens which they have in stock, not a large stock and maybe not my size but there will be a few. They only typically sell a few Edward Green shoes anyway but then again they will order a few in a couple different sizes so that you can try them on and pick the one that fits before you purchase. Also during their annual corporate 30% off sale Edward Greens with shoe trees are a rather good deal.

Frankly Allen Edmonds wouldn't be my first choice and that's for a number of reasons. However given there price point, their availability in the US, and the ability to get seconds at even a much better price they do have their place in the GYW RTW shoe market. Besides their customer service will replace a pair of shoes for you even if it takes 3 or 4 times if not more to get it right. But yes they wouldn't be my first choice.

It would be nice but I wouldn't expect most SAs to be that knowledgeable about their product unfortunately. Besides when they do know what they are talking about and that is far and few between it helps to be an educated buyer so that one is able to cut through the sales stuff and know what your getting. The best chance you have of meeting some SA who knows what he or she is talking about when speaking about shoes is someone who works at a place that only sells shoes. Then again like I said it helps to have as much knowledge that you can first.

Sorry it didn't work out for you. The sight I provided you also has a thread related to Brooks Brothers and other retailers as well if you care to check those out. It can pay off to have a better idea as to what you can expect and when you can pick up a few deals. I don't consider myself cheap but I would much rather save $500 on a pair of shoes or boots whenever I possibly can. Sales also happen from time to time and if they just so happen to have one I was interested in anyway and it will cost me a couple of hundred less I am always open to a good deal.

I was in the mall to buy my wife an iPhone 6S+ for her birthday. Brooks Brothers was the only place that had dress shoes in the window, so I stopped in. They did have two pairs of Edward Green suede wingtips, but the missus was anxious to go, so I didn't get a chance to try them on.

The Allen Edmonds were 880 AED ($244). The same shoe online is $428.

I'm a long way from buying anything. It will be like watches, I need to listen to what more experienced people are saying, then handle and try a bunch on before I decide what I want.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I was in the mall to buy my wife an iPhone 6S+ for her birthday. Brooks Brothers was the only place that had dress shoes in the window, so I stopped in. They did have two pairs of Edward Green suede wingtips, but the missus was anxious to go, so I didn't get a chance to try them on.

The Allen Edmonds were 880 AED ($244). The same shoe online is $428.

I'm a long way from buying anything. It will be like watches, I need to listen to what more experienced people are saying, then handle and try a bunch on before I decide what I want.

There's plenty of options out there of which some may chose not to purchase anything but tennis shoes and cheaper cemented corrected grain dress shoes. It just depends on what your looking for, how much your willing to spend, and how much time your willing to spend to find out exactly what is out there. You can very well chose to buy the least expensive quality footwear and think they're just fine or you can choose to purchase from the top tier and not even spend time looking at anything less. For me I've been willing to spend more time than most, and more money than most but not all. But in the long run what's most important is that I am very comfortable with the decisions I've made, I know why I made them, and I enjoy wearing really nice footwear.

Good luck and please let me know if you ever have any questions. I'm more than willing to respond to the best of my ability and to refer you to those sites that I am aware of that may be of any assistant. Typically I tend to like to spend time checking out various sources before making any decision. Sometimes it's a mixed bag but generally you can sort through the fluff and get to the heart of the matter.

Cheers,

Dan

[swils8610]

Dan, do you consider Alden to be top tier?

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by swils8610

Dan, do you consider Alden to be top tier?

No, neither by cost, nor by results and I would say those who have a good bit of knowledge of footwear and the shoemakers out there wouldnt either. In fact Alden tends to be considered somewhere in the lower middle tier. Shoemakers such as Crockett and Jones and Vass are considered in higher regards both in cost and results. The names one will typically hear when one talks about upper tier are John Lobb, Edward Green, St Crispins and Gaziano and Girling. There are a few others that are as well but I'm not as familiar with those.

Cost is only one measurement but the results you'll get when purchasing shoes and boots from a top tier shoemaker are very easy to see especially if you compare them side by side with something that is not. As I've said previously there's a very noticeable difference in the quality of the leather being used, the quality of the leather soles, the more refined design, the more refined Last, the better finishing, the overall quality with regards to stitching and brogueing, and overall quality in finished product None of which will guarantee it will last any longer but the amount of work and quality products certainly tends to enhance its visual appeal.

[droptopman]

Interesting. Regarding Alden. I recently purchased my first pair. Worn 1 time to my office which is carpeted. Minimal walking. The leather has pinched in the arch area. Hard to capture in pics. While I like the shell leather and the overall build quality I have never had a shoe do this. Most of my shoes are Ralph Lauren, AE, and old school Cole Haan. I have $500 range Polo loafers that are better made IMO. Do love the shell leather on a loafer. I will contact Alden and see if they offer a solution.

[dddrees]

Yeah, some of that puckering looks bad. Creasing or actually rolls with cordovan will occur and some will look worse if the fit isn't quite right. But that puckering looks bad. You might want to post those same pictures here and see what these people think. It's a much larger group of Alden people who have more experience with this kind of stuff than I.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/515126/t...d-photos/0_100

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Yeah, some of that puckering looks bad. Creasing or actually rolls with cordovan will occur and some will look worse if the fit isn't quite right. But that puckering looks bad. You might want to post those same pictures here and see what these people think. It's a much larger group of Alden people who have more experience with this kind of stuff than I.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/515126/t...d-photos/0_100

Thank you Dan.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Thank you Dan.

No problem, please let us know how it goes.

[droptopman]

Just for fun. My humble collection. Nothing like some posted here, but the shoe passion has been with me as long as the Rolex obsession. Just starting to learn of better brands discussed here. I live in a very rural area so high end shoes is not something discussed often...lol.
Current work out gear:

Browns and the lone color 8

My favorites:

Blacks and a couple burgundy:

Couple boots:

Too lazy to pull them out for good pics.

[dddrees]

^Yep, it appears as you have a problem. I believe you sir are addicted. LOL

Hey, I just luv being able to wear the right shoe with the right clothes and having more than just one or two options.

[swils8610]

Damn!! Great collection!

[droptopman]

Lol, there are at least 50 more pairs in the garage...I have them boxed up to donate 👍🏻

[swils8610]

Anyone have a suggestion on a belt to match Alden tan 979's? Is the Allen Edmonds walnut close?

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Lol, there are at least 50 more pairs in the garage...I have them boxed up to donate ����

Space got to be such an issue, I sold I don't know how many shoes. I've since replaced those and in fact I think I actually ended up with a few more than what I had previously. LOL

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by swils8610

Anyone have a suggestion on a belt to match Alden tan 979's? Is the Allen Edmonds walnut close?

Shannon, I ordered a custom made belt from one star leather, found them online. It arrives tomorrow, I will let you know how it looks. They had a nice selection of colors, do custom stuff and was inexpensive.
Found a couple of others that do custom belts too.

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Space got to be such an issue, I sold I don't know how many shoes. I've since replaced those and in fact I think I actually ended up with a few more than what I had previously. LOL

Lol, sounds like we have much in common.
My wife is so bad, when we built our house we put in a room for her to use as a giant closet. Last time I was in there I stopped counting shoes at 250 pairs. Now she won't drop coin like me on shoes but makes up for it in volume.
I should have built a bigger closet for myself.
I have the same affliction. Every time I try and slim down, just gives me a little room to get new stuff. We don't have kids so nothing to feel guilty about.
Clearly first world problems.

[Wesley Crusher]

Even though my experience with nice shoes is pretty limited, I'd agree with Dan that Alden is not top tier. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that their on the lower end of the middle tier, but definitely in the middle tier.

For me, the problem with the real high end shoes is that I've yet to see many models that can be worn casually. I know it's all personal preference, but I really like shoes with brouging, 360 degree welts, double leather soles, etc... Alden does this style very well and is probably on the higher end of the spectrum in terms of manufactures who offer shoes like this. C&J has a lot of shoes like this too, but I can't think of many others. I know Carmina has/had a few models, but who else?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Shannon, I ordered a custom made belt from one star leather, found them online. It arrives tomorrow, I will let you know how it looks. They had a nice selection of colors, do custom stuff and was inexpensive.
Found a couple of others that do custom belts too.

A belt should be an option when you buy shoes.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Lol, sounds like we have much in common.
My wife is so bad, when we built our house we put in a room for her to use as a giant closet. Last time I was in there I stopped counting shoes at 250 pairs. Now she won't drop coin like me on shoes but makes up for it in volume.
I should have built a bigger closet for myself.
I have the same affliction. Every time I try and slim down, just gives me a little room to get new stuff. We don't have kids so nothing to feel guilty about.
Clearly first world problems.

Yeah, I'm just lucky the kids no longer live at home. It gives me another closet to work with. Generally I keep all of mine at least in dust bags, but a good number are in their boxes as well. I find and believe keeping the dust off of them to be a good thing.

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

A belt should be an option when you buy shoes.

I agree, however Alden is not making belts at this time. I will wait and see if they offer them again. In the end I like both the Rancourt and Carmina shell belts too if Alden turns out to be a bust. I am funny about matching brands....it's the OCD.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Even though my experience with nice shoes is pretty limited, I'd agree with Dan that Alden is not top tier. I don't know if I'd go as far as saying that their on the lower end of the middle tier, but definitely in the middle tier.

For me, the problem with the real high end shoes is that I've yet to see many models that can be worn casually. I know it's all personal preference, but I really like shoes with brouging, 360 degree welts, double leather soles, etc... Alden does this style very well and is probably on the higher end of the spectrum in terms of manufactures who offer shoes like this. C&J has a lot of shoes like this too, but I can't think of many others. I know Carmina has/had a few models, but who else?

Preferences are one thing but actually such things as derbies, split toes, loafers, monks and such are all considered to be casual shoes. Edward Green has plenty of these types of shoes as well as the other top tier shoemakers. Double Leather soles, Dainite Soles, and various different welts are all common configurations which tend to make some of these shoes even look more casual.

Not sure what else I can say about where Alden tends to rank with regards to other shoemakers but it does rank below a number of other shoemakers in that middle tier just as Allen Edmonds is considered to be in the lowest tier when it comes to the stitched RTW shoemakers.