Czapek

[enjoythemusic]

All good and fine with me, plus love a fun challenge so solved the tilt.

Am sure the sales folks will hate me saying this, yet perhaps this Czapek model is not for you at this time. No worries, and once sorted you can feel free to place a new order if you desire. Czapek will be here for you when you're ready

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Bug04

I agree, this is a minor point but it’s a matter of perception: certain kind of watches should transfer the intangible feeling of wearing “perfection”, otherwise the magic may get polluted in the mind of the owner

Agreed however tempers seem to be running very hot on this forum, time for me to take a break

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by Bug04

I agree, this is a minor point but it’s a matter of perception: certain kind of watches should transfer the intangible feeling of wearing “perfection”, otherwise the magic may get polluted in the mind of the owner

I'm biased because my order is already in... and I'm probably buying the company more than I'm buying the watch (the story startup story resonates with me and the folks there have bent over backwards for me... So I want them to succeed... and I do believe it will be fixed and then some).

But I agree with you that's its the details like these that will make Czapek play in the A league of integrated sport watches (AP RO / PP Nautilus / Ferrier Sport / Parmigiani Tonda / Moser Streamliner) or in the B league (GP Laureato / Omega Constellation / Piaget Polo)... all due respect to those watches, they are great for what they are.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by Bug04

😀 Wow, “jingly jangly” sounds so rogue and teasing ...

[RolexSimon]

Originally Posted by londonpilgrim

I have the Streamliner chrono and though it is 42.3mm it wears smaller than a 40mm

I do love this Moser and i'm on a 18-month wait apparently.

[dchang81]

I mean these "integrated bracelet" sport watches should focus on the bracelet. I guess it's not technically an integrated bracelet tho? Personally I think that's what sets the royal oak from the rest. I like it more than the nautilus.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I mean these "integrated bracelet" sport watches should focus on the bracelet. I guess it's not technically an integrated bracelet tho? Personally I think that's what sets the royal oak from the rest. I like it more than the nautilus.

The Czapek is definitely integrated... its not like you could buy an off the shelf strap to fit it, and even if you could the flush lug to bracelet interface with repetitive C motif carrying through the bracelet defines its character. Though I would agree with you that with the integrated watch designs, the bracelet should be one of if not the main focus.

In my view, there are a couple of approaches that work well and a couple that don't: The approach of RO, Czapek, and Nautilus directing attention more toward the bracelet with an intricate design language and superlative finishing of the bracelet itself... all while still featuring the distinct characteristics of the case and dial is a clear winner. As well as the approach the approach of Overseas and Laurent Ferrier Sport, which have a less ostentatious interpretation of the bracelet design, while maintaining a wonderfully subtle complexity in the bracelet with a clear integrated interface to the case. Winners as well.

What does not work in my opinion is when brands get caught in the middle. Meaning either (1) they have an actual bracelet-to-case integration but fail in the finishing or originality of design for the bracelet (i.e. GP Laureato) or more displeasingly (2) they just fake the integration altogether (i.e. Lange Odd and Piaget Polo), which is lazy and misleading.

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

I'm biased because my order is already in... and I'm probably buying the company more than I'm buying the watch (the story startup story resonates with me and the folks there have bent over backwards for me... So I want them to succeed... and I do believe it will be fixed and then some).

But I agree with you that's its the details like these that will make Czapek play in the A league of integrated sport watches (AP RO / PP Nautilus / Ferrier Sport / Parmigiani Tonda / Moser Streamliner) or in the B league (GP Laureato / Omega Constellation / Piaget Polo)... all due respect to those watches, they are great for what they are.

For me it’s exactly the same! I am buying the company first and watch second, I love to be part of the journey and I really like what I see. And if that means we can help the company make improvements by giving early feedback, we are all winners here.

I am going to Geneva soon and will definitely drop by the Czapek boutique. I have ordered the S but haven’t seen it in real life yet, so I can’t wait to try it on the wrist! And obviously I will be curious to see how the end link looks on my wrist (it might be different for different people and different between the S and L).

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by deuxani

For me it’s exactly the same! I am buying the company first and watch second, I love to be part of the journey and I really like what I see. And if that means we can help the company make improvements by giving early feedback, we are all winners here.

I am going to Geneva soon and will definitely drop by the Czapek boutique. I have ordered the S but haven’t seen it in real life yet, so I can’t wait to try it on the wrist! And obviously I will be curious to see how the end link looks on my wrist (it might be different for different people and different between the S and L).

You're a good man. Take pics and say hello to Pierre. I'll be curious to hear your feedback. I tried on the S a few months ago; and while its slightly too small for my wrist, the Salmon dial is quite impressive and almost forced me to change my mind about sizing.

Also, if you want to grab a beer after your Czapek visit and talk watches, PM me... my office is pretty close to the boutique.

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

You're a good man. Take pics and say hello to Pierre. I'll be curious to hear your feedback. I tried on the S a few months ago; and while its slightly too small for my wrist, the Salmon dial is quite impressive and almost forced me to change my mind about sizing.

Also, if you want to grab a beer after your Czapek visit and talk watches, PM me... my office is pretty close to the boutique.

I will :) I’ve been in contact with Pierre and Camille, they are great people, so friendly!

I’m currently in my small watch phase (just got a 85th anni Reverso Tribute Duo medium and Datejust 36 mint green), so I expect the 38.5 Antarctique S to be right up my alley. But obviously better to experience it in real life to be a 100% certain. When I saw the salmon S I almost immediately knew “this is the one”. Good to hear you also were impressed by that colour. Almost everyone is getting the glacier blue, but I can get almost every watch in blue, salmon dials on a sportswatch with a bracelet are a rarity. Can’t wait to see it.

Thanks for the invite! I will definitely send you a message when I know the exact date I will be there. Sounds like fun.

[enjoythemusic]

Czapek Looks To Meet Demand With A New Atelier In La Chaux-De-Fonds
Ramping up production to new heights...

https://www.fratellowatches.com/czap...haux-de-fonds/

[Amanubis]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Noticed the Tiff dial too. Have a feeling it's coming so this is a tease.

Attachment 1300642

Curious to know what thoughts are on this, versus the new Alpine Eagle Marine Blue dial - which is definitely striking!

[enjoythemusic]

If I was a betting man, they have a solid plan in play. CV19 really messed up supply chains for many industries globally. It'll be great to have more guys here getting their delivery and as that increases to some point THEN reopen the ordering books, and dare we ask for a GMT or....

[AlyRba]

Originally Posted by Amanubis

Curious to know what thoughts are on this, versus the new Alpine Eagle Marine Blue dial - which is definitely striking!

Alpine Eagle is a beautiful watch and my top choice among second tier of luxury watches (Laureato, Octo Finissimo, SeaQ). The maritime blue dial is also very striking and although close to the current trend of Tiffany blue color, it is still different enough. That being said, Alpine Eagle itself is a tier below compared to the likes of Antarctique and Streamliner. I own an Alpine Eagle and currently waiting for delivery of Glacier Blue Antarctique.

Also, I prefer the glacier blue over Tiffany blue as it is on the Passage Drake pattern and a different/non-common shade of blue.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by Amanubis

Curious to know what thoughts are on this, versus the new Alpine Eagle Marine Blue dial - which is definitely striking!

If we are only talking about opinions on the dial itself, the Marine dial is really a cut above; it's absolutely stunning in pictures and in person. Only my opinion: the dial doesn't bailout the overall design of the Alpine Eagle watch itself, which I don't find appealing for my personal taste, but that dial is special.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Czapek Looks To Meet Demand With A New Atelier In La Chaux-De-Fonds
Ramping up production to new heights...

https://www.fratellowatches.com/czap...haux-de-fonds/

What do you think about this news? Doesn't feel like such a "good thing" from a collector's perspective....

I hold the premise that in its expansion, Czapek has an opportunity to thrive. I believe they have the right people and a very nice product. The only question in my mind is will it thrive as a competitor in the AP/PP/VC/Ferrier integrated-sport class, or as a competitor to GP/Chopard/Cartier/Bvlgari integrated-sport class? I fear that if they slip into that second tier, they will get "crushed in the middle" as they say. That is, too small to compete with the marketing budget of those bigger mid-market brands, and yet too big (i.e. too much overhead) and not exclusive exclusive enough to attract high-end clients at more favorable margins.

And this coming at a time when they are still ironing out some quality concerns with the bracelet. So when they "step up" from being an ultra-exclusive independent micro-brand by making more watches - and the market finds a more balanced equilibrium where Royal Oaks are accessible again at retail - what is Czapek's value prop? "We are the cooler more individualized more exclusive micro-brand with limited production"? Nope. "Our quality and attention to detail exceeds that of AP?" Well no... not right now, anyway. "We have a well-know artist watchmaker at the helm who is pumping innovation into our watches?" Nope... its all outsourced.

Compare this to Laurent Ferrier, for example, whose new sport model is on par with and might exceed the quality standards of PP/AP sport models while remaining more exclusive and having an iconic watchmaker. While their brand awareness is dwarfed by the PP/AP marketing machine, and they will never be big enough to truly compete with those brands in terms of corporate structure, they will also not be crushed in the middle. And the collectability of their watches will (in my opinion) prevail long term. This is not a plug for the Ferrier Sport necessarily, though I am a huge fanboy, its just one example to contrast the strategy.

I understand the desire to make more watches in order to satisfy demand, increase profits, and make shareholder's happy, which is fair. But there is a fine line between (i) expansion through brand awareness (i.e. creating intrinsic value in the brand by being more visible to more people) and (ii) sacrificing core high-end collectors by commoditizing an otherwise very special and exclusive brand.

At the very least, Czapek's messaging needs to steer away from any implication of "hey we are about to commoditize what was a very exclusive and unique piece..." ... and really shift the narrative to... "hey we are acquiring bigger facilities AND ATTRACTING MORE TALENTED WATCHMAKERS to improve quality, design and innovation for our watches." That message certainly did not come through in this article.

[Horlogeek]

Originally Posted by dchang81

....that photo doesn't look good. My order is supposed to come in a few weeks, now I'm unsure.......

Wearing it like in the picture (between hand and forearm) doesn't help... If you have it behind the bone, flat on the wrist it is a bit better.

Cheers

[enjoythemusic]

Thanks to Czapek's USA representative Mike Margolis for helping with all the extra straps / clasps. Here's the Monochrome White with white strap, a perfect combination for summer.

❤ wearing this timepiece!

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Thanks to Czapek's USA representative Mike Margolis for helping with all the extra straps / clasps. Here's the Monochrome White with white strap, a perfect combination for summer.

❤ wearing this timepiece!

Attachment 1301933

Unreal! Thanks for sharing the perfect summer combo.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Unreal! Thanks for sharing the perfect summer combo.

A most humble thanks. Am having soooo much fun with this timepiece!!! Without a doubt, after being an enthusiast for decades this really is something verrrrry special. It's easy to see the attraction, and then there's the seXXXy movement. Business up front, party in the back

My Muse / wife loves it, we share timepieces and the white strap looks great on her too.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Thanks to Czapek's USA representative Mike Margolis for helping with all the extra straps / clasps. Here's the Monochrome White with white strap, a perfect combination for summer.

wearing this timepiece!

Attachment 1301933

That's heart-stopping. Absolutely crisp and elegant and sporty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rexplorer214270]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

What do you think about this news? Doesn't feel like such a "good thing" from a collector's perspective....

I hold the premise that in its expansion, Czapek has an opportunity to thrive. I believe they have the right people and a very nice product. The only question in my mind is will it thrive as a competitor in the AP/PP/VC/Ferrier integrated-sport class, or as a competitor to GP/Chopard/Cartier/Bvlgari integrated-sport class? I fear that if they slip into that second tier, they will get "crushed in the middle" as they say. That is, too small to compete with the marketing budget of those bigger mid-market brands, and yet too big (i.e. too much overhead) and not exclusive exclusive enough to attract high-end clients at more favorable margins.

And this coming at a time when they are still ironing out some quality concerns with the bracelet. So when they "step up" from being an ultra-exclusive independent micro-brand by making more watches - and the market finds a more balanced equilibrium where Royal Oaks are accessible again at retail - what is Czapek's value prop? "We are the cooler more individualized more exclusive micro-brand with limited production"? Nope. "Our quality and attention to detail exceeds that of AP?" Well no... not right now, anyway. "We have a well-know artist watchmaker at the helm who is pumping innovation into our watches?" Nope... its all outsourced.

Compare this to Laurent Ferrier, for example, whose new sport model is on par with and might exceed the quality standards of PP/AP sport models while remaining more exclusive and having an iconic watchmaker. While their brand awareness is dwarfed by the PP/AP marketing machine, and they will never be big enough to truly compete with those brands in terms of corporate structure, they will also not be crushed in the middle. And the collectability of their watches will (in my opinion) prevail long term. This is not a plug for the Ferrier Sport necessarily, though I am a huge fanboy, its just one example to contrast the strategy.

I understand the desire to make more watches in order to satisfy demand, increase profits, and make shareholder's happy, which is fair. But there is a fine line between (i) expansion through brand awareness (i.e. creating intrinsic value in the brand by being more visible to more people) and (ii) sacrificing core high-end collectors by commoditizing an otherwise very special and exclusive brand.

At the very least, Czapek's messaging needs to steer away from any implication of "hey we are about to commoditize what was a very exclusive and unique piece..." ... and really shift the narrative to... "hey we are acquiring bigger facilities AND ATTRACTING MORE TALENTED WATCHMAKERS to improve quality, design and innovation for our watches." That message certainly did not come through in this article.

I agree with parts of your statement but I also think Czapek does need to at commoditizing as well to build brand awareness and brand equity. They are receiving a lot of attention and if you have people interested in buying your product why limit yourself? That can turn off people to your brand. Just imagine how many people go elsewhere since they had to close the order book.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by Rexplorer214270

I agree with parts of your statement but I also think Czapek does need to at commoditizing as well to build brand awareness and brand equity. They are receiving a lot of attention and if you have people interested in buying your product why limit yourself? That can turn off people to your brand. Just imagine how many people go elsewhere since they had to close the order book.

You raise a valid point about turning people off to the brand when its unavailable. Though the model has worked well for Hermes, Rolex, Ferrari and others playing the high-end marketing game. There's definitely a balancing point.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer, per se. Definitely interested in your take (and others').

[Bug04]

Very nice combo! Perfect for the sun.
👍

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Thanks to Czapek's USA representative Mike Margolis for helping with all the extra straps / clasps. Here's the Monochrome White with white strap, a perfect combination for summer.

❤ wearing this timepiece!

Attachment 1301933

[Bug04]

I tend to agree with your comments shared in your first message related to this matter. Czapek differentiating factors, given its profile and the competitive arena, more than new points of sales should be (i) a target of product excellence in all aspects, then (ii) slowly, production capacity sizing and (iii) being it one of the key points for a low volume independent, a focus to outstanding service and relationship with clients, which should be easy, direct, immediate, receptive and responsive. And, of course, effective (meaning: solving quickly any issue suffered by clients).
Then the rest, including strengthening of the channels of sale, could come.

As personal opinion then, I would prefer not to see Tiffany dial proposals and also I would avoid a drift in too many dial colors offering.

Originally Posted by charger_vital

You raise a valid point about turning people off to the brand when its unavailable. Though the model has worked well for Hermes, Rolex, Ferrari and others playing the high-end marketing game. There's definitely a balancing point.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer, per se. Definitely interested in your take (and others').

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

You raise a valid point about turning people off to the brand when its unavailable. Though the model has worked well for Hermes, Rolex, Ferrari and others playing the high-end marketing game. There's definitely a balancing point.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer, per se. Definitely interested in your take (and others').

You do realize Czapek just started right? Those brands you compare them to have been around for decades and none of them got to where they are now by NOT making product, growing supply/capabilities, and serving their customers. The limited edition no availability hype / drop model is a relatively recent consumption dynamic and while we might equate that with success today, that's not how any of those brands were built or established themselves over the decades.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Bug04

As personal opinion then, I would prefer not to see Tiffany dial proposals and also I would avoid a drift in too many dial colors offering.

This i agree with.

LEAD, don't follow.

One small indie did a collab recently that's been (IMHO) quite embarrassing, tho am cool with one-offs for special clients, because, well, ya know, don't want that option closing either.

i say again, LEAD, don't follow.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ajw45

You do realize Czapek just started right? Those brands you compare them to have been around for decades and none of them got to where they are now by NOT making product, growing supply/capabilities, and serving their customers. The limited edition no availability hype / drop model is a relatively recent consumption dynamic and while we might equate that with success today, that's not how any of those brands were built or established themselves over the decades.

Interesting ideas, not sure I agree with some of your conclusions, but appreciate the thoughts. Regardless I don't quite understand what your take is. Did you see my first post on the topic? It seems like you may be responding to a response I sent to someone else without context (that's not a dig at you, it just seems you are arguing a point that already been covered so I'm not sure what you are trying to convince me of).

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Interesting ideas, not sure I agree with some of your conclusions, but appreciate the thoughts. Regardless I don't quite understand what your take is. Did you see my first post on the topic? It seems like you may be responding to a response I sent to someone else without context (that's not a dig at you, it just seems you are arguing a point that already been covered so I'm not sure what you are trying to convince me of).

I did read your previous post and I chose not to respond to it, cause there's a lot there, and just responding the comparison to Rolex, Hermes, and Ferrari and what "has worked well for," them. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm actually making the point for others here that comparing the success of mature legacy brands to a new early stage brand may not be a logical comparison.

Since you ask though, your post feels a lot like watch snob gate keeping worrying about collectors and totally removed from the realities of actually growing a business. So what if Czapek goes from making a few hundred to a few thousand watches? Does that mean they are somehow now more commodity products than the 50k ROs AP pumps out each year? High end collectors? Czapek isn't Ferdinand Berthoud where every watch has a numbered movement. You worry about their positioning but if I'm a buyer/owner, I worry about whether the brand is going to be around long enough to figure that out. Expansion and revenue is a good thing, it means they can build the runway they need to do exactly the things you're talking about. Again, they are a new brand, AP, PP, etc didn't happen overnight, they've had literally hundreds of years combined to reinvent their brands multiple times over. It's a marathon not a sprint, one article they didn't write or control is just part of the scenery on their journey.

[Rexplorer214270]

Originally Posted by ajw45

I did read your previous post and I chose not to respond to it, cause there's a lot there, and just responding the comparison to Rolex, Hermes, and Ferrari and what "has worked well for," them. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm actually making the point for others here that comparing the success of mature legacy brands to a new early stage brand may not be a logical comparison.

Since you ask though, your post feels a lot like watch snob gate keeping totally removed from the realities of actually growing a business. So what if Czapek goes from making a few hundred to a few thousand watches? Does that mean they are somehow now more commodity products than the 50k ROs AP pumps out each year? You worry about their positioning but if I'm a buyer/owner, I worry about whether the brand is going to be around long enough to figure that out. Expansion and revenue is a good thing, it means they can build the runway they need to do exactly the things you're talking about. Again, they are a new brand, AP, PP, etc didn't happen overnight, they've had literally hundreds of years combined to reinvent their brands multiple times over. It's a marathon not a sprint, one article they didn't write or control is just part of the scenery on their journey.

Well written and I definitely agree. Expansion and revenue are good, expanding your customer base particularly when you are a relatively young company is very important. Rolex, Hermes, and Ferrari to name a couple their exclusivity or perceived exclusivity (even with CV19 Rolex still shipped 800,000 watches) grew over time. I think this expansion, hiring of more watchmakers is the right move for Czapek as they grow in demand and popularity.