32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by carbon888

Does this still apply to modern Rolex for the simple regulating part?

Yes, But I prefer to actually know by how much my watch will be affected so I use my Timegrapher data ….


My Exp II (226570) …



The different positions …



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andad]

Well I can’t help.

I have already been elevated to my highest level of incompetence.



Very nice pix Charles.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Andad

Well I can’t help.

I have already been elevated to my highest level of incompetence.

Eddie, if you say so, then you might need to change your name to PETER?
According to the Peter-principle.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Yes, But I prefer to actually know by how much my watch will be affected so I use my Timegrapher data ….

Charles,

You are showing us so many nice photos and 5-position-measurements for your new Explorer II.

To go to the next level, you need to investigate if your data sets are different or all identical.

Next level is to study repeatabilty and do some error analysis, in one H- and one V-position, at least with n = 10.

That hopefully keeps you busy for a while...

Otherwise you can't teach Paul (aka The San Diego Timegrapher Lover)

[CharlesN]

Don't Worry

I have already started further tests and I am logging the readings and results..

MORE DATA WILL FOLLOW SHORTLY

[CharlesN]

Here is the first set of figures taken for my Exp II.
The idea is to confirm that any data collected is fully repeatable.

I have only done the first 2 of 5 positions (I have a lack of time today so I can’t complete all 5 in one go).

Sorry it’s hand written ……. I leave it to saxo3 to create gorgeous graphs.

Using a quill is exhausting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Sorry it’s hand written ……. I leave it to saxo3 to create gorgeous graphs.

Using a quill is exhausting.

Next time, please use Excel instead of a Quill.



Note: the vertical black lines for each data point represent the measurement PRECISION.

Obviously, your 3285 caliber PRECISION is within Rolex specs of -2/+2 sec/day.

[CharlesN]

I have started taking readings.

I am using Apple's Numbers program, i don't have Excel.

I have to do 50 tests to do a full "set" of tests.

Each one of those 50 is made up of 60 data points ... Thats a total of 3,000 data points.

Oh boy ! This might take a while.

At least its better than watching some awful TV program.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I am using Apple's Numbers program, i don't have Excel.

I have to do 50 tests to do a full "set" of tests.

Each one of those 50 is made up of 60 data points ... Thats a total of 3,000 data points.

Good, that's better than the quill and required for the next step; you are close to Technology TechXpert level here.

[TheVTCGuy]

I don’t have a clue what you guys are talking to but Saxo just appointed me to the team!!! So as an expert, I can now start explaining about amplitude- er altitude and uhm…. Vacuumed tubes and….. and tune-o-grapher and…. And…. And all those other difficult words you guys use!

So, if any of you have tech-expert level type questions, I am now an official 32 series thread expert! It is an honor to be appointed!

So, who has the first question? Well, I’ll start. Someone asked the difference between the 3235 and the 3230…. It’s difficult to explain in terms a layman could understand of course, but here goes…… 5

I am already an important source of knowledge and contribution member of the 32 series data thread

[CharlesN]

I have managed to do all those readings and produce a spreadsheet

I’m not good with those.

These are my readings and results …




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Someone asked the difference between the 3235 and the 3230…. It’s difficult to explain in terms a layman could understand of course, but here goes…… 5

Ahh ... I don't think you quite gave enough explanation.
Please let me add a little to your answer.

The 5 is what is calculated by the Grey market dealer as an important number.
He deals with a supplier, Usually an Authorised Dealer of the brand in question,often called an AD.
He pays full retail price to the AD (Plus a little tip for the sales assistant (Often called a bribe).

He then sees if he can get 5 times that price paid to sell on the watch to someone else.

So thats what the 5 is all about I think.

Now, if you think I am joking just look at the List and grey price differences are for a Patek Philippe Nautilus.

[waterman1]

Hello, yes much of this thread is beyond my understanding when taking of amplitude and measuring it, etc. But my experience has been that I own two 3235 movements and both have experienced the issue. One of them twice. So there were three trips to RSC. At the current time all watches are keeping good time. +1.5s/24hrs.

[sheldonsmith]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Ahh ... I don't think you quite gave enough explanation.
Please let me add a little to your answer.

The 5 is what is calculated by the Grey market dealer as an important number.
He deals with a supplier, Usually an Authorised Dealer of the brand in question,often called an AD.
He pays full retail price to the AD (Plus a little tip for the sales assistant (Often called a bribe).

He then sees if he can get 5 times that price paid to sell on the watch to someone else.

So thats what the 5 is all about I think.

Now, if you think I am joking just look at the List and grey price differences are for a Patek Philippe Nautilus.

????

3235 movement has the calendar date mechanism.

3230 does not (think No Date Submariner)

~ Sheldon

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

????

3235 movement has the calendar date mechanism.

3230 does not (think No Date Submariner)

~ Sheldon

Oh wow ! Gosh.
I would never have managed to work that out. *
Well done. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheVTCGuy]

OK, my first day as an expert on the thread and I literally laughed out loud at that

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

OK, my first day as an expert on the thread and I literally laughed out loud at that

Paul, you did not get that right.
Read below, carefully.

The CONDITION for you is to first get a TIMEGRAPHER, then you become Charles' assistant.

So you are not (yet) member of the "team"!

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Hi Paul,

We do need more help studying this.

How about you getting a Timegrapher and becoming OUR TIMEGRAPHER ASSISTANT.

The training process can be done whilst you are at home.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Paul, you did not get that right.
Read below, carefully.

The CONDITION for you is to first get a TIMEGRAPHER, then you become Charles' assistant.

So you are not (yet) member of the "team"!

Darn it!!!!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have managed to do all those readings and produce a spreadsheet

I’m not good with those.

These are my readings and results …




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Charles, very nice and and useful data demonstrating the amplitude difference between horizontal and vertical caliber positions (bottom part of the plot).

The rate differences (top part of the plot) allow for timekeeping adjustments with chosen watch position at rest.

This Explorer II (226570) is in perfect condition. Your watch data are reproducible and consistent.

Another textbook like demonstration for the usefulness of a timegrapher.
Well done Charles, according to proposal ;-)

[CharlesN]

Thanks saxo3
That is one of the better graphs that you have produced as it is so simple and clear to for everybody to easily understand

It also clearly answers the question posed a few days ago about Night time positioning.

Although every watch will be different the main guide is all here

[CharlesN]

I have also just noticed the small chart on the right hand side of the main graph.

Very interesting.

For those who need a little explanation .....

The figures shown are the X (aka average) for each position.

That means that the number of data points for each figure is 10 x 60 = 600 data points to make each average.

That should be enough to have a VERY accurate figure as the resulting average.

If any of you are wondering why the 12U position has not been used it is because the 12 Up position is not thought of as a standard position as in general wearing a watch rarely gets into that position.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Thanks saxo3
That is one of the better graphs that you have produced as it is so simple and clear to for everybody to easily understand

It also clearly answers the question posed a few days ago about Night time positioning.

Although every watch will be different the main guide is all here

Interesting evaluation from a quill user
Let's now wait for your first graph

[Driver8]

Interesting to see the numbers in the poll have really stabilized at 25-26% with dodgy timekeeping, and just over 70% with no issues at all. The figures have been there for a while now despite the total respondees still ticking over (albeit slowly).

Obviously the hope is that the 70% will increase and the 25% will reduce over time as that would indicate the issue is no more...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Interesting to see the numbers in the poll have really stabilized at 25-26% with dodgy timekeeping, and just over 70% with no issues at all. The figures have been there for a while now despite the total respondees still ticking over (albeit slowly).

Right. The approx. 70:30 ratio is stable since 6 months; the status 3 days ago:



New 32xx watches from 2020 and 2021 are most interesting.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

Cheers…..the watch has not long stopped, it ran for an incredible 79 Hr 45 mins

Hi Andy,

Did you repeat this PR measurement?

Best is without moving the watch.

[dannyp]

At what level of power reserve will timekeeping likely be impacted? What I've found is that when I wind my watch fully, it runs maybe just over a second a day fast, after which it loses a little under a second a day (though has enough PR to never stop). Used to be that it was always about 0.5 seconds/day fast, and my assumption has been that I've recently been less active.

I am asking because I want to make sure that there isn't some issue with the automatic winding mechanism or some other 3230-specific issue at play. Obviously haven't read the entire thread, but am being hyper vigilant about this (since there really isn't much else wrong with my life right now that commands my attention).

[CharlesN]

Please see post 1830 and 1868 in this thread.

The timekeeping in a few 32xx equipped watches goes off after 60 hours of Power Reserve

Hope this helps you feel better and more confident.

The position your watch is in can make a suprising difference.

If you lifestyle has changed .. working from home etc, this can often be seen in a change in a watch's timekeeping.

Generally Dial Up and Dial Down gain a little and the other planes, 3Up, 6Up and 9Up all loose a little. 12Up is not normally measured.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Please see post 1830 and 1868 in this thread.

The timekeeping in a few 32xx equipped watches goes off after 60 hours of Power Reserve

Hope this helps you feel better and more confident.

The position your watch is in can make a suprising difference.

If you lifestyle has changed .. working from home etc, this can often be seen in a change in a watch's timekeeping.

Generally Dial Up and Dial Down gain a little and the other planes, 3Up, 6Up and 9Up all loose a little. 12Up is not normally measured.

Honestly, I think my biggest change has been swinging my arms less… at least until watch gets its first major ding

Also, fewer walls since it’s been so hot…

Not too worried, as it seems consistent.

[CharlesN]

Occasionally someone asks how to take the measurements correctly so I thought I would give this basic guide.

It is all much simpler than you would think …….

Firstly. There are 5 positions that the watch should be placed in during the tests. They are … Dial Up, 6Up, 9Up, 3Up and finally Dial Down.

12Up is not used as it is not a common position for a watch to find itself in.

These poor quality (sorry) pictures should give you the idea …..



There is a sequence and things to follow to get the best observations ...

(1) Use the higher sensitivity mode (99.9 instead of 999) of your Weishi 1900.
(2) Set the Lift Angle to 53 degrees for a 32xx movement.
(3) Fully wind the watch.
(4) Place the watch in the Dial Up position onto the microphone.
(5) Wait 15 minutes for the watch to stabilize, then take a measurement.
(6) Change position to 6Up, wait 3 min, then measure again for 2 minutes.
(7) Continue with 9Up, 3Up, Dial Down. It is easiest if you always use this sequence.
(8) Compile your results in a simple table. Preferably a spreadsheet not handwritten on a scrap of paper.
(9) If you mount the watch in a crown close to the microphone position then you will get better transmission of sound to the microphone.

You need to get The Rate reading, Beat Error and Amplitude.

When you have taken and recorded the readings for the 5 positions make an Average of each set of 5 results. This is called the X

Also take the highest reading and the lowest reading and record the difference between them. This is called the Delta.

[dannyp]

So this is unlikely 32xx-specific, but thought this would be a good place to mention. Noticed something interesting on my 3230 over the last day or so:

It's been running pretty close to even, just a fraction of a second fast, most of the time. Total of about 1-1.5 sec fast. Yesterday, however, I didn't wear it much, and left it lying face-up. This morning, it was a total of about 3 sec fast. That's right, almost a whole day without wear, but sufficient PR, and it gained extra time.

What that tells me is: Particularly for those of us who aren't constantly moving around, wrist position when seated or standing matters. It would seem that however I keep my wrist during the day evens out the time gains overnight leaving it face up.

Just for kicks, I reset it and gave it full wind (along with my new 2230-powered OP34). Will see how the two are over the next few days, relative to UTC and each other.