Czapek

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Except that's not what you did, is it? You jumped to a premature and incorrect assumption that I confuse quality with "taste". If you want me to clarify my statements, then simply ask instead of making condescending statements.

You can publish ten books, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.... much like the bracelet we are discussing.

As you were dear.

... (Don’t want to fight.)

Have a good evening.

[dchang81]

Is that supposed to be ironic. This has devolved and is just sad

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

You remind me of a joke i once heard about falling from one’s ego to one’s ability.

Have a good evening. Night all.

[Bug04]

👍
Balanced and, to me, agreeable consideration.

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I'm sorry, but bracelets like that of the RO or the PF Tonda are a cut above. It's obvious to anyone to has held those two watches and an Antartique. Is that the end of the world? No. Does that mean the Antartique is not a great watch? No. Should all of you throw your Antartiques in a fire and buy something else? No.

The Antartique has a great design. The movement architecture is unique and captivating. The dimensions and wearability is great. But, the bracelet leaves much to be desired. It is okay to point out things that should be improved. Not every watch is a masterpiece without fault.

[Gebbeth]

Wait, I thought there was a whole subset of watch lovers who actually prefer pins and sleeves. Whenever the subject comes up about a watchmaker skimping on the bracelet by using pins and sleeves, you get an almost immune response of people defending pins and sleeves.

Which is a point I'd like to make. This is all highly subjective. For every screw guy, there is a pins and sleeves guy. Loose fit, tight fit. Chamfer, no chamfer. It's all a matter of personal preferences.

Now if the bracelet is breaking on you...the links coming apart, or the clasp is useless, yes, I think that is a quality issue. I guess time will tell if the Czapek bracelet has quality issues.

[szabo_martin]

There is honestly nothing wrong with the Czapek bracelet it just seems to be a polarizing component with the Rolex Forum crowd

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

Wait, I thought there was a whole subset of watch lovers who actually prefer pins and sleeves. Whenever the subject comes up about a watchmaker skimping on the bracelet by using pins and sleeves, you get an almost immune response of people defending pins and sleeves.

Which is a point I'd like to make. This is all highly subjective. For every screw guy, there is a pins and sleeves guy. Loose fit, tight fit. Chamfer, no chamfer. It's all a matter of personal preferences.

Now if the bracelet is breaking on you...the links coming apart, or the clasp is useless, yes, I think that is a quality issue. I guess time will tell if the Czapek bracelet has quality issues.

Correction you get a bunch of nautilus owners defending their watch and its suspect clasp and average bracelet!

[Chiboy]

I think the Czapek "C-link" bracelet is really sharp, er, nice looking! To me it's much more interesting than, say, an Omega bracelet or ALS Odysseus bracelet. I saw one in person, but didn't try it on, so didn't get a sense whether the flex or tightness of the bracelet was what I would hope for. But I found the appearance to be very unique and attractive. In fact, it has cost me 38 hours of my life as I discovered this thread and have been staying current on it.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by szabo_martin

There is honestly nothing wrong with the Czapek bracelet it just seems to be a polarizing component with the Rolex Forum crowd

Exactly, tiny few voices only on TRF as the bracelet is truly excellent. But of course you can't make everyone happy, and that's good as there are far more Czapek buyers right now than timepieces they can produce. One day they'll come around... if they so choose.

Agreed the bracelet is VERY comfortable to wear. So to you complainers, please name brands that include not one, but TWO very easy-to-use extension bits on their metal bracelet. Czapek does


As A Side Note
And while i'm having a great time with daily use of the Czapek Monochorme, it is enhanced by whiners only on TRF who make me love it even more. Maybe they don't have one to see and feel what we OWNERS see and feel? Are they jealous, or am i annoying them, curious? So complainers, which Czapek model do you have?

Truly exceptional reliability as mine has been put through the paces HARD and works great, no worries at all... even during hurricane Ian

Heck, even my inexpensive and super-easy S.B.A.R.S. system invention does not make them happy at all(!)... even though it solves their complaints (naaaaa naaa na naaa naaaaaa). Have these complainers actually tried my revolutionary invention? i have a feeling they just like actual owners posting to see how much fun we've been having with our Czapek timepieces

Maybe they don't like tinkering or have no skills to do so? VERY humbly said, yet with decades of experience.... See, i can wrap my head around those without creative thinking as have bumped heads with others during my travels who dislike my ability to create / invent solutions. Bummer because i love tinkering with timepieces, table clocks, my tall clock, cars, pressure systems, electrical system, web coding.... i guess they don't appreciate us creative types, bummer but no loss to the world in any real terms. One of my relatives companies a lot, and hates that i can engineer up solutions for her too, so am kinda usedta others disliking easy and workable solutions (even for their self-imagined problems).


Bottom Line imho
Many of us Czapek owners using our timepieces are having a great fun time. Love the Czapek Monochrome and can not say enough awesome things about it. If you've never worn a Czapek you're really missing out imho. For those still waiting, it is very much worth the wait and look forward to your impressions.

PS: Strange how they choose not to complain about the excellent rubber and leather straps. It's almost like they are stuck in their mind with bracelet-only, and sure there are brands with integrated bracelet but that don't have attractive rubber and leather straps that are very easy to change. It's great Czapek has a lovely integrated bracelet and an assortment of high-quality rubber and leather straps that are VERY easy to change

Look forward to complainers' replies here, it brightens my day actually knowing we're having a great time wearing Czapek.

Enjoy your time

[szabo_martin]

Digging mine

[Cayenne06]

Can’t wait for mine to arrive. QDB Blue Aroura.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Correction you get a bunch of nautilus owners defending their watch and its suspect clasp and average bracelet!

I'm A nautilus owner and I think it's not a good bracelet. Didn't they make revisions tho?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by cayenne06

can’t wait for mine to arrive. Qdb blue aroura.

[_speedmaster_]

I'll never understand blind loyalty to objects.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I'll never understand blind loyalty to objects.

Well said. Love your collection too. Sadly, the Trinity Trap is strong with some and that's all they'll ever acquire. Blind loyalty to an outdated list.

[kimodaz]

I'm not a pin/sleeve guy I prefer screws in my bracelet but I like my Czapek bracelet and I love both my watches.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[GB-man]

Steven I have come to know you well enough not to argue these points haha but to answer your question the VCO bracelet is all those things. Double hidden extensions, well finished, sturdy as an oyster and as easy to change as an apple watch including rubber and leather for free. I realize they have money to light on fire relative to a micro like czapek.

I mean this last point as a pure observation and not to be rude but your end link fitment looks quite off in these pictures. The other posted with the exotic dial looks far better tolerance wise.

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Exactly, tiny few voices only on TRF as the bracelet is truly excellent. But of course you can't make everyone happy, and that's good as there are far more Czapek buyers right now than timepieces they can produce. One day they'll come around... if they so choose.

Agreed the bracelet is VERY comfortable to wear. So to you complainers, please name brands that include not one, but TWO very easy-to-use extension bits on their metal bracelet. Czapek does


As A Side Note
And while i'm having a great time with daily use of the Czapek Monochorme, it is enhanced by whiners only on TRF who make me love it even more. Maybe they don't have one to see and feel what we OWNERS see and feel? Are they jealous, or am i annoying them, curious? So complainers, which Czapek model do you have?

Truly exceptional reliability as mine has been put through the paces HARD and works great, no worries at all... even during hurricane Ian

Heck, even my inexpensive and super-easy S.B.A.R.S. system invention does not make them happy at all(!)... even though it solves their complaints (naaaaa naaa na naaa naaaaaa). Have these complainers actually tried my revolutionary invention? i have a feeling they just like actual owners posting to see how much fun we've been having with our Czapek timepieces

Maybe they don't like tinkering or have no skills to do so? VERY humbly said, yet with decades of experience.... See, i can wrap my head around those without creative thinking as have bumped heads with others during my travels who dislike my ability to create / invent solutions. Bummer because i love tinkering with timepieces, table clocks, my tall clock, cars, pressure systems, electrical system, web coding.... i guess they don't appreciate us creative types, bummer but no loss to the world in any real terms. One of my relatives companies a lot, and hates that i can engineer up solutions for her too, so am kinda usedta others disliking easy and workable solutions (even for their self-imagined problems).


Bottom Line imho
Many of us Czapek owners using our timepieces are having a great fun time. Love the Czapek Monochrome and can not say enough awesome things about it. If you've never worn a Czapek you're really missing out imho. For those still waiting, it is very much worth the wait and look forward to your impressions.

PS: Strange how they choose not to complain about the excellent rubber and leather straps. It's almost like they are stuck in their mind with bracelet-only, and sure there are brands with integrated bracelet but that don't have attractive rubber and leather straps that are very easy to change. It's great Czapek has a lovely integrated bracelet and an assortment of high-quality rubber and leather straps that are VERY easy to change

Look forward to complainers' replies here, it brightens my day actually knowing we're having a great time wearing Czapek.

Enjoy your time

Attachment 1321736

Attachment 1321737

Attachment 1321738

[kimodaz]

My bracelet is an early bracelet without the micro adjustment
Here are couple pictures of my watch after I had the second hand changed from Red to Silver

[BrunoMalik]

Count one more satisfied owner.

The only issue with the Antarctique is the loose connection between bracelet and case. This has already been fixed on the 38mm.

The rest of the bracelet is well built, super comfortable and plays beautifully with light. Perhaps not as well built as the RO bracelet but way more comfortable. On the other hand, its more robust than a 5711 bracelet and more visually interesting than anything the PF Tonda or the Streamliner have to offer.

So i rank the Czapek bracelet (with the case connector fix) slightly behind the RO and ahead of everyone else.

The rest of the watch is amazing. Movement is miles ahead of the competition including the new entries like the Tonda.

.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Attachment 1321738

Cool... Did you mod the MAD with an orange body?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Steven I have come to know you well enough not to argue these points haha but to answer your question the VCO bracelet is all those things.

And that's truly awesome, it really is. Yeah, i kinda went a bit 'overboard' with my 'teasing' on this thread recently and yeah i 'jumped the shark' a bit. You're right, my bad.

Apologies to those who took my funness a bit personally.

I mean this last point as a pure observation and not to be rude but your end link fitment looks quite off in these pictures. The other posted with the exotic dial looks far better tolerance wise.

Czapek end links are their visual weakness for some. Doesn't bother me at all, and in some ways have grown to like it. So yes it's me, you are right.

The Monochrome version visually works with soooo many different colored straps (and bracelet) that i have been totally enamored with it. The movement is amazing, and have been very impressed with the overall durability too.

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Cool... Did you mod the MAD with an orange body?

M.A.D. works with Friends and they source the watch holder from IFL. Hope this helps.

https://iflwatches.com/product-categ...-stands/robot/


----------
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Apologies for those who took my recent snarkiness to heart. In the end it's just a timepiece guys, not a life-saving device. But WOW what an amazing timepiece imho.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

Perhaps, however he made no statement to clarify why he believes the Czapek bracelet of lower quality than the competition other than (in essence) “I like it less.”

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Except that's not what you did, is it? You jumped to a premature and incorrect assumption that I confuse quality with "taste". If you want me to clarify my statements, then simply ask instead of making condescending statements

In fairness, when you say something like, "...RO or the PF Tonda are a cut above. It's obvious to anyone..." and that's the only support you provide, you can hardly turn around and accuse someone of prematurely assuming anything. "It's obvious to everyone..." is an opinion (not a fact). It says nothing about quality other than your own perception of it (which is another way of saying your "taste"). It's not the first time that an opinion has been pawned off as fact... I'm sure it won't be the last.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

In fairness, when you say something like, "...RO or the PF Tonda are a cut above. It's obvious to anyone..." and that's the only support you provide, you can hardly turn around and accuse someone of prematurely assuming anything. "It's obvious to everyone..." is an opinion (not a fact). It says nothing about quality other than your own perception of it (which is another way of saying your "taste"). It's not the first time that an opinion has been pawned off as fact... I'm sure it won't be the last.

Ok.... let's take an example.

If someone tells me, "I've recently sat in a Rolls Royce and the interior is an obvious cut above a Honda Civic." My thought should be, "well, that's certainly an opinion and a reflection of this guy's taste."? Stop it.

My only intent was to agree with what others were saying, that the bracelet is not on par with some of the competition. A simple statement. I didn't intend or want to get involved in a lengthy discussion because quiet frankly I don't care. If this is apparently some sort of court room where I need to provide solid, verified evidence to support my claims then noted. But, from what I'm seeing, even evidence supplied by others is somehow justified under the mental gymnastics fanboys seem to do in their mind.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Ok.... let's take an example.

If someone tells me, "I've recently sat in a Rolls Royce and the interior is an obvious cut above a Honda Civic." My thought should be, "well, that's certainly an opinion and a reflection of this guy's taste."? Stop it.

My only intent was to agree with what others were saying, that the bracelet is not on par with some of the competition. A simple statement. I didn't intend or want to get involved in a lengthy discussion because quiet frankly I don't care. If this is apparently some sort of court room where I need to provide solid, verified evidence to support my claims then noted. But, from what I'm seeing, even evidence supplied by others is somehow justified under the mental gymnastics fanboys seem to do in their mind.

It’s a bad analogy. We aren’t talking about an AP vs a Timex. A better example would be a Rolls Royce vs a Ferrari. The Rolls is heavier more solid, quieter, and way more comfortable than a Ferrari. Not as fast or sexy. But Better quality? That’s a matter of opinion.

If you appreciate masculine design and wearable functionality Czapek beats Parm. If you prefer a solid end links a supple integration, and don’t mind a somewhat awkward brushing design, Parm is great. AP… yeah I might have to concede that AP just may have it all… Either way, the argument that it’s a matter taste and not a matter quality is a legit argument.

I respect your opinion that the quality for your personal tastes are better represented by the AP or Parm. Both exquisite watches. I just have to call you out when you sell your opinion as a matter of fact (as you’ve done in the past), which it’s not.


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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

It’s a bad analogy. We aren’t talking about an AP vs a Timex. A better example would be a Rolls Royce vs a Ferrari. The Rolls is heavier more solid, quieter, and way more comfortable than a Ferrari. Not as fast or sexy. But Better quality? That’s a matter of opinion.

If you appreciate masculine design and wearable functionality Czapek beats Parm. If you prefer a solid end links a supple integration, and don’t mind a somewhat awkward brushing design, Parm is great. AP… yeah I might have to concede that AP just may have it all… Either way, the argument that it’s a matter taste and not a matter quality is a legit argument.

I respect your opinion that the quality for your personal tastes are better represented by the AP or Parm. Both exquisite watches. I just have to call you out when you sell your opinion as a matter of fact (as you’ve done in the past), which it’s not.


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Like I said, I'll make sure to take the time to provide ample amounts of evidence next time. I wouldn't want to be accused to making blasphemous statements without hard evidence, particularly if people will run to their watch box clutching their preciouses after reading mean things.

Regarding the analogy. I purposely made them polar opposites to prove the point. Just because evidence is not given does not mean the statement is opinion. Like I mentioned before, if you want me to clarify my statements, then ask. I sometimes hop in here to post a quick take; sometimes I don't have the time to go through the nuances of why.

[Bug04]

There is actually not much to proof when stating that, for example, the RO bracelet is of superior quality.
I am not a RO “whatever it takes” supporter, but referring to bracelet that is simply the fair comment that in general who tasted it, compared to others, recognizes.
Frankly, it suffices to put the Antarctique and the RO bracelets one near the other to feel such gap. And highlighting possible area of improvement does not mean disqualifying the object (Antarctique or any other).

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Regarding the analogy. I purposely made them polar opposites to prove the point.

Right. But that’s just it. Your argument doesn’t work unless the two things are polar opposites, which they are not, which is why you are changing the facts in the analogy to fit your argument.

Look, I would agree with you that in general you don’t always need to have hard evidence to prove obvious observations, but that’s irrelevant when the quality is close enough to not be obvious. Here, it is not; perceptions of quality are more a matter of preference (I.e. taste) than empirical measures…


To that end, If you’ve got something more than you just don’t like the loose end link on a Czapek, by all means: let’s hear why the bracelet is of subpar quality (is it the type of steel they use, is it the grade of center link polishing?).

Otherwise, I could present a bunch of dudes who think the Royal Oak is sub par because the end links flair out from the wrist, which frustrates a snug fit.

Is that taste or quality?






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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Right. But that’s just it. Your argument doesn’t work unless the two things are polar opposites, which they are not, which is why you are changing the facts in the analogy to fit your argument.

Look, I would agree with you that in general you don’t always need to have hard evidence to prove obvious observations, but that’s irrelevant when the quality is close enough to not be obvious. Here, it is not; perceptions of quality are more a matter of preference (I.e. taste) than empirical measures…


To that end, If you’ve got something more than you just don’t like the loose end link on a Czapek, by all means: let’s hear why the bracelet is of subpar quality (is it the type of steel they use, is it the grade of center link polishing?).

Otherwise, I could present a bunch of dudes who think the Royal Oak is sub par because the end links flair out from the wrist, which frustrates a snug fit.

Is that taste or quality?






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My last post on this, since this conversation has devolved to an unfathomable level based on a single comment about a watch bracelet.

You continue to miss my point. It's not about making a statement so blatantly obvious it has to be factual. It's about being condescending in thinking a person can't ("once again" was it?) understand the difference between "quality" and preference simply because there was no evidence made in the statement. It's about having actual discourse in asking the person to justify the statement if you actually care (I appreciate it took you 4 posts to finally ask me).

Yes, the end link has too much play; no this is not an intended design choice. Clasps that don't overlap are less secure. Micro adjustment would have been nice for you initial buyers, no? Using pins vs screws was a cheap solution (as mentioned before Xavier is hoping to switch to screws).

Yes, beveling, bracelet heft, taught links are personal preferences. Although, if we are being honest with ourselves, most of you Antartique owners would want bevels.

I give Xavier credit. He's hearing these issues and actively correcting them. Working on the end link. Added micro adjustment. May switch to screws.

[BrunoMalik]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

My last post on this, since this conversation has devolved to an unfathomable level based on a single comment about a watch bracelet.

You continue to miss my point. It's not about making a statement so blatantly obvious it has to be factual. It's about being condescending in thinking a person can't ("once again" was it?) understand the difference between "quality" and preference simply because there was no evidence made in the statement. It's about having actual discourse in asking the person to justify the statement if you actually care (I appreciate it took you 4 posts to finally ask me).

Yes, the end link has too much play; no this is not an intended design choice. Clasps that don't overlap are less secure. Micro adjustment would have been nice for you initial buyers, no? Using pins vs screws was a cheap solution (as mentioned before Xavier is hoping to switch to screws).

Yes, beveling, bracelet heft, taught links are personal preferences. Although, if we are being honest with ourselves, most of you Antartique owners would want bevels.

I give Xavier credit. He's hearing these issues and actively correcting them. Working on the end link. Added micro adjustment. May switch to screws.

You are just nit picking to prove your point.

The screws vs pins is a mute point. The Nautilus bracelet has had pins for the past 10 years and i have not heard anyone complaining. Has not stopped the model to be one of the most sought after ever. Also, the bracelet resizing tool works perfectly on the Antractque. Much faster than using a screwdriver to resize.

Speaking of the Nautilus, they just updated their clasp to one that does not overlap. Just like the Antarctique. And just like Moser. So are you saying that the mighty Patek has moved to a less secure clasp? Or will you admit that the modern clasps are so secure that they don’t need to overlap. And that you can close them whichever way you want without risking of scratching the clasp?

Micro adjustment is a plus but not a requirement. To my knowledge neither of the holy trinity sports models came with an adjustment clasp when they were initially released. AP and PP still do not have one. Does to streamliner and the Tonda have micro adjustments? I didnt think so. So why do you make it sound like Czapek is short changing their clients? They include one now and have stated that previous clients can get one at cost if they choose so.

“Most of you Antarctique owners would want bevels”…really? How do you know? Have you spoken to all of us? Are you an owner yourself? But since you assumed, let me correct you and say No, I dont want bevels. Actually, i never looked at my Antarctique and said: “Urgh i wish it had bevels…”

They only issue has been the loose connection to the case. We have flagged it to Czapek. They have listened and they have fixed it. Something you cannot say about other brands.

So stop insisting that the Antarctique bracelet is not good enough. You have multiple owners here that tell you otherwise. And yes, i have both the Antarctique and the RO 15500. So unlike you, I am in a position to compare them and make a proper judgement.


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[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by BrunoMalik

You are just nit picking to prove your point.

The screws vs pins is a mute point. The Nautilus bracelet has had pins for the past 10 years and i have not heard anyone complaining. Has not stopped the model to be one of the most sought after ever. Also, the bracelet resizing tool works perfectly on the Antractque. Much faster than using a screwdriver to resize.

Speaking of the Nautilus, they just updated their clasp to one that does not overlap. Just like the Antarctique. And just like Moser. So are you saying that the mighty Patek has moved to a less secure clasp? Or will you admit that the modern clasps are so secure that they don’t need to overlap. And that you can close them whichever way you want without risking of scratching the clasp?

Micro adjustment is a plus but not a requirement. To my knowledge neither of the holy trinity sports models came with an adjustment clasp when they were initially released. AP and PP still do not have one. Does to streamliner and the Tonda have micro adjustments? I didnt think so. So why do you make it sound like Czapek is short changing their clients? They include one now and have stated that previous clients can get one at cost if they choose so.

“Most of you Antarctique owners would want bevels”…really? How do you know? Have you spoken to all of us? Are you an owner yourself? But since you assumed, let me correct you and say No, I dont want bevels. Actually, i never looked at my Antarctique and said: “Urgh i wish it had bevels…”

They only issue has been the loose connection to the case. We have flagged it to Czapek. They have listened and they have fixed it. Something you cannot say about other brands.

So stop insisting that the Antarctique bracelet is not good enough. You have multiple owners here that tell you otherwise. And yes, i have both the Antarctique and the RO 15500. So unlike you, I am in a position to compare them and make a proper judgement.


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I've held a RO and an Antartique in my hand numerous times, and once side by side. So, yes, I have experience enough to know my point. And if your argument here is going to be, "if you don't own the watch stay quiet on the matter" then I guess all watch talk and forums should just die off.

I don't view the nautilus as having a great bracelet. Liken the Antartique bracelet with the nautilus all you want.....I agree.

Wait.....do you own a Nautilus. How about a PF or Streamliner? How about an Alpine Eagle? If you don't, then how can you possibly make the claim its on the same level as all competition? Or are you exempt from your own ridiculous requirements on being able to make assessments on watch bracelets?

Regarding the bevels comment, take a breath guy...it was a joke. Stop being so defensive about a freaking watch bracelet.