It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

[Swiss Mad!]

OMG!! Rolls & Sex!!!

Wife just asked me what I was laughing at...



Hilarious...

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[AK797]

Originally Posted by nikesupremedunk

Tudor isn’t the new Rolex and they never will be Rolex. Both Tudor and Rolex make great watches but let’s face it, people are buying Rolex because it says “Rolex”, not “Tudor”.

I think not at retail or at discounts, but those paying inflated prices often have more suspicious motives.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dreyep

Tudor can never be Rolex because of its wretched name.

This might only make sense to people in the UK, but the word "Tudor", when applied to a product about which there is even the slightest whiff of "second-bestness", derivativeness and, dare I say it, insincerity, cannot but conjure up to an Englishman a repellent image of avenues of mock-Tudor houses in leafy Surrey (11 Acacia Avenue, Leatherhead, &c), the whole fakeness of Merrie England, fake pub interiors and flagons of "Fyne Cyder" or hearty ales, falsified coats of arms and Ralph Lauren boutiques selling cricket jumpers and tweeds for gentlemen, morrismen, Alan Partridge and all the rest.

It's for this reason that I could never wear a Tudor, however beautiful the design or stunning the movement.

The name Rolex, on the other hand? Well, Rolls and sex. That'll do nicely, sir.

Shallow? Perhaps. But that's the power of the brand name.

Think you're way off base. Your secondary thinking is just that, secondary, most people esp with some education, primarily think of Tudor as a great Royal House and in fact after Windsor it is the most famous with two of the most prominent monarchs in world history. It's a far better name for a watch than Plantagenet, York or Stewart; all names that were considered and rejected when the Royal Family chose the non-Germanic name of Windsor during WW1.

[NWCarver]

Originally Posted by dreyep

Tudor can never be Rolex because of its wretched name.

This might only make sense to people in the UK, but the word "Tudor", when applied to a product about which there is even the slightest whiff of "second-bestness", derivativeness and, dare I say it, insincerity, cannot but conjure up to an Englishman a repellent image of avenues of mock-Tudor houses in leafy Surrey (11 Acacia Avenue, Leatherhead, &c), the whole fakeness of Merrie England, fake pub interiors and flagons of "Fyne Cyder" or hearty ales, falsified coats of arms and Ralph Lauren boutiques selling cricket jumpers and tweeds for gentlemen, morrismen, Alan Partridge and all the rest.

It's for this reason that I could never wear a Tudor, however beautiful the design or stunning the movement.

The name Rolex, on the other hand? Well, Rolls and sex. That'll do nicely, sir.

Shallow? Perhaps. But that's the power of the brand name.

I would say once upon a time that would be correct with regards to the 'Tudor' name - back in the 1970s and 1980s - but not anymore and certainly not from anyone that are in my circle of friends and family...So, in my opinion, that kind of association with the 'Tudor' name has died out really :-)

[dreyep]

Indeed, a great royal house. Elizabeth, an epic queen, who presided over a period of English history -- with its theatre, and science, its music in Byrd and Tallis and the immortal Dowland, its great voyages of exploration and the seeing off of the Spanish, &c, &c -- that has never been equalled, even in the Victorian period.

When you attempt to yoke all of that to a mid-tier watch brand you're going to look pretty tacky, at best.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dreyep

Indeed, a great royal house. Elizabeth, an epic queen, who presided over a period of English history -- with its theatre, and science, its music in Byrd and Tallis and the immortal Dowland, its great voyages of exploration and the seeing off of the Spanish, &c, &c -- that has never been equalled, even in the Victorian period.

When you attempt to yoke all of that to a mid-tier watch brand you're going to look pretty tacky, at best.

But there is also Bloody Mary and two beheadings, so the Tudors have their faults, and thus are not Patek but not Timex either.

[dreyep]

Originally Posted by NWCarver

I that kind of association with the 'Tudor' name has died out really :-)

I was merely giving my own personal and very much extant association. But then so were you!

[dreyep]

Originally Posted by AK797

and thus are not Patek but not Timex either.

Calling a brand "Tudor" is just a category mistake with hilarious consequences, for me. Although I like your line of thinking above...

[lecorsaire]

Originally Posted by astewartconst

As a watch newb here are my thoughts....seeing that $9,250 price tag for the Pepsi made me think “damn Rolex is getting really expensive” add to that the fact that if I wanted to pay $9,250 for one I couldn’t and I will not even be able to see one in a store for what 2-3-5 years?

Then the Tudor Pepsi comes out and it’s like ok wow what is Rolex doing here?

The conclusion that I have come to is that same as the OP....that Rolex is going for higher price lower volume and gradually let Tudor move into what Rolex is/was.

I also wonder maybe Rolex is concerned about the next downturn and doesn’t want to be caught with tons of inventory so produce less and sell for higher price.


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How does a $9250 price for a GMT mean Rolex is getting more expensive? This is just $300 more than the BLNR price from 2013! The SS DJ2 was already $9100 before being discontinued. The prices have remained pretty consistent in the past few years. Part of the cost is because the jubilee is more expensive than the Oyster. Usually $100 more see DJ41 Oyster $9350 Jubilee $9450.

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by astewartconst

As a watch newb here are my thoughts....seeing that $9,250 price tag for the Pepsi made me think “damn Rolex is getting really expensive” add to that the fact that if I wanted to pay $9,250 for one I couldn’t and I will not even be able to see one in a store for what 2-3-5 years?

Then the Tudor Pepsi comes out and it’s like ok wow what is Rolex doing here?

The conclusion that I have come to is that same as the OP....that Rolex is going for higher price lower volume and gradually let Tudor move into what Rolex is/was.

I also wonder maybe Rolex is concerned about the next downturn and doesn’t want to be caught with tons of inventory so produce less and sell for higher price.


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If Rolex is, as you say, going for higher price/lower volume, why then the recent release of cheaper SS versions of their previously PM only Skydweller's & GMT BLRO???

Makes no sense..

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[bdex75]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Sadly, some never will, Paul

dP

Agree with you both.

I sold every Rolex I had and own only Tudor (amongst other non Rolex brands) now. Not because I think they are a better watch. But because I think they are a much better value right now. They are better looking and much more classic look to me.


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[sickened1]

Originally Posted by bdex75

My draw to Tudor is due to the lack of new 5 digit Rolex models. The ceramic pieces are way to shiny and blingy for me. I tried a DSSD and flipped it for a Tudor chasing the vintage feel.

The new Rolex cases are way to fat for my liking.

Totally agree with you on those.

I like thin lugs and I cannot lie...

[watchmework]

No, just no.

[Phallster]

It’s interesting to see (as a millennial) how the older generations views brands, specifically in the context of wealth and status. I say this as a high income millennial with an exclusive interest in Rolex and no liking for Tudor.

Many of my millennial friend/colleagues watched their parents wear rolexes, drive BMW’s, etc, only to lose it all during the financial collapse. We watched our parents spend and spend with little thought for wealth building. Many millennials (certainly those that I know), even those with incomes at 300k+ would never dream of spending more than a couple hundred dollars on a watch unless their home was paid off, they carried no car debt, etc (google Ramsey Babies). I mention this because, it had become so evident on this board that many feel that Tudor is blue collar (read that twice now) while Rolexes exudes wealth. I have a family member that finances his Rolexes because he has a low income (google “big hat, no cattle”)

I have no doubt that the minds at Tudor are mindful of the fact that millennial are far less inclined to spend 10k on a watch regardless of income. I just had a friend put his $40,000 bonus for the quarter into his mortgage...consequently he may be more inclined to splurge on a $3500 piece than one more than $10,000.

I love Rolex but it’s sad to see so many on here buying into what it says about the owner than it may. I can assure you that there are people financed up to their eye balls with no net worth that are doing everything they can to pay for their watches, and people if great wealth that will not dare to buy even a Tudor until their worth exceeds millions.

I’m relatively new to this board but I can now see why so many of my millennial friends have the negative perception of Rolex that they do.

[wytrader]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Many consider Rolex a 2nd best watch to more than a few higher end brands.

So of what is the Submariner a 90% copy?
Daytona?
GMT?

My point wasn't as a complete brand but the watches that have become iconic and many have then aspired to own.

Rolex has years and years of marketing, branding and history behind it, whereas my opinion of Tudor's as more affordable versions of Rolex models (However beautiful they are) will stay for a while.

Only time will tell what the future holds but I do not believe that this lull in supply spells the end for by far the most iconic watch brand ever.

[007_Omega]

Originally Posted by nikesupremedunk

Tudor isn’t the new Rolex and they never will be Rolex. Both Tudor and Rolex make great watches but let’s face it, people are buying Rolex because it says “Rolex”, not “Tudor”.

I don't think most people even know what Tudor is, while it would be hard to find a person who doesn't know Rolex.

Tudor is certainly making a name for themselves in the watch world but how much of that has crossed into the mainstream?

Still, they are making great progress and I love that they are becoming more and more their own thing rather than just the "poor man's Rolex."

I'd never buy a Tudor Rolex copy model but I'd consider the new stuff they are putting out (the pepsi is not a copy..I'm referring to the date just and old sub clones).

[cuibono]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Friends, waitlists, price increases, scarcity, etc.

Rolex is going upmarket. Exclusivity. Sell less units at higher prices. Same profit. Rolex=Patek Eventually.

Tudor is the brand that people will aspire to own. Rolex if you’re wealthy.

This is the strategy. It’s the reason you have a Tudor Pepsi and a Rolex Pepsi both with in house movements, 70 hour power reserves.

There is no way management would allow such in house scalping if this wasn’t to move both brands up market with Tudor replacing Rolex for the aspirational middle class.

It’s clever yet obvious and slightly cynical but it’s happening.

Theyre going up market by pushing PM models over SS. Better margins.

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[TimeToWatch]

It’s really not that simple. Tudor is Tudor, Rolex is Rolex. Let’s not get that confused.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by 007_Omega

I don't think most people even know what Tudor is, while it would be hard to find a person who doesn't know Rolex. ).

And this is one of the many reasons why I wear Tudor. I may be in a situation where I want to wear a dive watch but don’t want the world knowing it’s a Rolex. (Certain times in the business world.) And then there are cases where I would not mind if people knew. When I will then wear my vintage Tudor sub or even a Speedy in leather.

What is also funny is what the non watch person thinks a Rolex Submariner cost. When I had a sub we had several other people in the office that liked nice watches. Couple had small collections of Michael Koors type watches and some had Citizen or Seiko. Always said they would love to own a Rolex and always liked the sub. When asked what they thought it cost the answers were enlightening. Most said $1500-$2500. If you went to those same people now (or anyone for that matter) and said a SS Rolex Submariner was $8000 they would never aspire to own one because for most that number is unattainable.

Cannot count the number of times I heard. “I thought they were like $2000. So if I saved for a while I could afford one. But even if I could save $8000 I could never allow myself to spend it on a watch”.

And that is Tudors opportunity IMHO. The SKX or Citizen Ecodrive buyer that will spend $800. Getting them to step up to $2500-$3000.



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[RolexNorth]

It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

Stop smoking whatever it is that you're smoking.

[oldman2005]

Originally Posted by RolexNorth

It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

Stop smoking whatever it is that you're smoking.

It happened all the times when someone is trying to prove a $20 bill worth as much a $100 bill. Rolex is Rolex and Tudor is Tudor. Sorry never meant to be rude.

Actually I believe Tudor should have its own sub-forum since there's so much different between the two Tudor and Rolex, just like Swatch group is too big for Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Calvin Klein, Swatch, Flik Flak...

[lecorsaire]

Originally Posted by Phallster

I love Rolex but it’s sad to see so many on here buying into what it says about the owner than it may. I can assure you that there are people financed up to their eye balls with no net worth that are doing everything they can to pay for their watches, and people if great wealth that will not dare to buy even a Tudor until their worth exceeds millions.

Whether or not someone with the means decides to buy luxury watches, cars or whatever for that matter largely depends on how frugal a person is. Some very wealthy people will just drive a Honda Accord while others wouldn't take anything less than a Mercedes. Some guys are happy with a quartz or solar Seiko or Citizen. I don't think it's a generational thing. It has a lot more to do with their lifestyle, personality and even choice of career. Look at Steve Jobs. Very wealthy entrepreneur who never really wore a watch and always wore the same outfit. I believe Buffett just wears his Day-Date. He could have whatever vintage or grande complication watch he wants but this is what he likes to wear.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

Whether or not someone with the means decides to buy luxury watches, cars or whatever for that matter largely depends on how frugal a person is. Some very wealthy people will just drive a Honda Accord while others wouldn't take anything less than a Mercedes. Some guys are happy with a quartz or solar Seiko or Citizen. I don't think it's a generational thing. It has a lot more to do with their lifestyle, personality and even choice of career. Look at Steve Jobs. Very wealthy entrepreneur who never really wore a watch and always wore the same outfit. I believe Buffett just wears his Day-Date. He could have whatever vintage or grande complication watch he wants but this is what he likes to wear.

Seems to be wearing a SkyDweller.



or did you mean this one.



Regardless, wrt Tudor, I believe Tudor is what Rolex wants to buy if the don't want to ante up for the PM models.

[lecorsaire]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

or did you mean this one

This one! Jimmy is a cool guy though.

[STEELINOX]

Always entertaining to see the lot of ya try to figure out "ROLEX and TUDOR," or is it, "TUDOR and ROLEX?"

I liked when I walked into a TUDOR store back in the 80's. It was in a strip mall in Bangkok, I think it was the Thai Damairu Mall near "Pratu nam" (river).

Anyways, not far from it - was a ROLEX retailer. I always walked first to the TUDOR store, then the ROLEX store after; and while being a teen ager could more identify with the crown vs the shield. My parents both wore crowns, one a DD and the step mom - a Cellini.

I guess I always wanted to be different from the parents, so I liked TUDOR first. The tricompax offerings always lured me. They weren't even "Tiger'd" yet and had no connection to Newmans racing H. But TUDOR had its own pedigree = Racing, polo, etc. And they had bolder colors for the dials back then.

Today, I saw their Basel showings and I have to say, that its a pretty gutsy move on TUDORs part to do what so many have dared.

Its "smart" and the whole thing about trying to figure out how ROLEX manages all this, well, you all just will have to ride this wave cause ROLEX creates the environment by which YOU will buy these and those timepieces!

Onto Basel 2019!

[WatchGuy1966]

Last night at the dinner (sat at the bar with a buddy) and the obnoxiously drunk guy next to us was wearing a SeaDweller 126600; I was wearing a 116710LN, and my buddy was wearing a 16600. This guy proceeded to tell me that my Buddy's 16600 was "garbage" compared to ho 126600 and that my Tudor was not a "real watch." There are still some Rolex Fan-boy snobs out there. In the meantime, I plan to enjoy my Tudor and maybe get another. I don't think a Rolex is Twice or Three times what a Tudor is. I think Rolex is brilliant to market the under $4,999.99 USD watch. I'll get as many as I like :-)

[LINVS]

Hmmm....I dunno.

If you ask an average man or woman on the street if he knows what a Rolex is, he'll shake his head yes.

Ask him what a Tudor is, he'd more likely start talking English history than watches.

Are Tudors marketed more outside the USA? I don't recall ever seeing a Tudor boutique. In a "watch mall" like Chong Hing I never get around to seeing Tudor (if they carry them).

A young professional getting his first bonus - does he dream about a Tudor? or a Submariner?

A person at the apex of his or her career - do they jones for a gold Tudor Prince? or a Daydate or gold Sub?

Rolex has spent decades and countless dollars building their brand. And it's not really about horology - you can't even see the movements anyway. Rolex is more than a watch, it's a status symbol.

Now waitlists are just for certain models - that just enhances the brand. There are still plenty of Datejusts, OPs, and PMs out there for the masses.

If you really appreciate the craftsmanship and design of Tudors, then great. Tudor apparently make a good watch. But a lot of people buy Rolex for the brand.

[DylanFox]

why doesn't Tudor have it's own sub-forum?

[HogwldFLTR]

As I donned my THBBR today, all thoughts of it being a serious tool watch vanished from my mind. I've not worn it in a while and forgot that there is no diver's extension on the watch. This prohibits it from actually fulfilling its apparent intended use unless diving without a wet suit. It is a nice watch but certainly not a Rolex Dive Watch.

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

So do I. Recently I was watching Wild Wild Country on Netflix about the ‘80s Bhagwan Rajneesh cult in Oregon and they showed a couple of catalog style Rolex ads from the late ‘70s/early ‘80s. I immediately went back and hit pause to admire them and get a good look.

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Haha. I just started that show as we speak.

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

It’s actually pretty entertaining! I went in with no knowledge of what they were or what went down. It’s pretty wild!

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Just finished it. I spent a few months in Oregon in the '80s and that doc brought back a few memories.

I'll have to watch this as well. I lived in Bend for six years and motorcycled through Antelope. I remember talk of the commune at the time. Heading for five days in Bend leaving on Friday. Maybe I can get through the show before then.

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by DylanFox

why doesn't Tudor have it's own sub-forum?

I have asked. It seemed sensitive. I believe it was because Tudor and Rolex are the same company. But since their re-launch into the US I think their popularity in this site has soared.


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