32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by dannyp

I can see how lubing from the beginning might solve the problem, while lubing at service would not. With the latter, some damage to the parts themselves may already be done and if they aren't replaced, that damage will not be resolved with lubrication. On the other hand, if lubed from the beginning, perhaps the damage wouldn't occur in the first place?

Of course, if the warranty service identifies and replaces the worn parts, too, well, then I've got nothing...

My apologies.
I assumed you were across the full scope of work when Rolex repairs the 32xx movements.
The worn parts are automatically replaced with new ones.
There's no point leaving them in there as that's actually what the problem is. They have to be replaced to start afresh

Parts are routinely replaced at a normal service as well.

[dannyp]

So two interesting things happened today:

1. Watch gained more time overnight (1.8s) than typical (0.8-1.2s/d).

2. Watch lost a bit of time first part of the day, but started to gain again in the late afternoon.

I know it's tough to tell without a timegrapher, but the question then becomes: Is the PR getting depleted, causing the additional overnight/earlier gains, or is there a potential amplitude issue indicative of "COVID-32" (yea, that's what I'm calling it now...)?

Overall, watch still keeping excellent time, and we all have off days, of course.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by dannyp

So two interesting things happened today:

1. Watch gained more time overnight (1.8s) than typical (0.8-1.2s/d).

2. Watch lost a bit of time first part of the day, but started to gain again in the late afternoon.

That does happen, I see that too, it can depend on your wrist activity, no reason at all to worry.
7 measurements on 1 day (24.10.) are not required.

Originally Posted by dannyp

… but the question then becomes: Is the PR getting depleted, causing the additional overnight/earlier gains, or is there a potential amplitude issue indicative of "COVID-32" (yea, that's what I'm calling it now...)?

2 x NO.
Do not wind this movement (now) and continue to place it DU overnight.
On average, this movement gains about 0.5 s/d and (so far) it looks consistent on your graph, which is most important.

[dannyp]

Thanks. Wasn't planning to wind again until I have to reset next week anyways. So, when you talk of "consistency" it seems what matters is the overall gain/loss over the course of the day, and how much of the overnight gains are cancelled out by the daytime losses (even if the "daytime" and "nighttime" components aren't entirely consistent)?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Thanks. Wasn't planning to wind again until I have to reset next week anyways. So, when you talk of "consistency" it seems what matters is the overall gain/loss over the course of the day, and how much of the overnight gains are cancelled out by the daytime losses (even if the "daytime" and "nighttime" components aren't entirely consistent)?

[Moretti]

I posted in this thread half a year ago saying that I have two watches with 32xx and no issues. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer true. My DJ41 bought in September 2019 was running spot on for the first half of the year. Then it slowed down to approx. -0,5s per day. I was observing this watch wishing the issue won't develop but unfortunately now it's running around -2,5s per day. I have an impression that a lot of movements may be affected by this 'disease' and it's only a matter of when it's going to manifest itself (2 years in my case). The worst part of this is the fact there is no permanent fix for this, so I will probably end up sending my watch to RSC every year. Frustrating Now just waiting for my BLNR to show the symptoms too.

[sheldonsmith]

Originally Posted by Moretti

I posted in this thread half a year ago saying that I have two watches with 32xx and no issues. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer true. My DJ41 bought in September 2019 was running spot on for the first half of the year. Then it slowed down to approx. -0,5s per day. I was observing this watch wishing the issue won't develop but unfortunately now it's running around -2,5s per day. I have an impression that a lot of movements may be affected by this 'disease' and it's only a matter of when it's going to manifest itself (2 years in my case). The worst part of this is the fact there is no permanent fix for this, so I will probably end up sending my watch to RSC every year. Frustrating Now just waiting for my BLNR to show the symptoms too.

My 126600 had similar issues as your DJ41, but after two round trips to the RSC, the watch has been running fine (knock on wood) with +1.5/day stored vertically (CR) at night for almost a year. I am hopeful that Rolex discovered the secret sauce for the 32xx movements.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Moretti

I posted in this thread half a year ago saying that I have two watches with 32xx and no issues. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer true. My DJ41 bought in September 2019 was running spot on for the first half of the year. Then it slowed down to approx. -0,5s per day. I was observing this watch wishing the issue won't develop but unfortunately now it's running around -2,5s per day. I have an impression that a lot of movements may be affected by this 'disease' and it's only a matter of when it's going to manifest itself (2 years in my case). The worst part of this is the fact there is no permanent fix for this, so I will probably end up sending my watch to RSC every year. Frustrating Now just waiting for my BLNR to show the symptoms too.

I found this to be the worst feeling when I found my watch showing symptoms.

For my non-sentimental watch, it was an extremely cleansing feeling when I moved it on, got my money back and purchased a replacement. My DJ that is still showing issues still nags at me.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Moretti

I posted in this thread half a year ago saying that I have two watches with 32xx and no issues. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer true. My DJ41 bought in September 2019 was running spot on for the first half of the year. Then it slowed down to approx. -0,5s per day. I was observing this watch wishing the issue won't develop but unfortunately now it's running around -2,5s per day. I have an impression that a lot of movements may be affected by this 'disease' and it's only a matter of when it's going to manifest itself (2 years in my case). The worst part of this is the fact there is no permanent fix for this, so I will probably end up sending my watch to RSC every year. Frustrating Now just waiting for my BLNR to show the symptoms too.

If the 2 TechXpert watchmakers, both posting on TRF, don't know about a 'permanent' fix, it does not mean there is no 'permanent' fix found and applied by Rolex SA.

Btw, there is nothing 'permanent' with a mechanical movement.

[alphadweller]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Btw, there is nothing 'permanent' with a mechanical movement.

Call it long term fix if you prefer, we know what we're talking about here, a fix that doesn't require bringing your watch back to the RSC every year or so. A fix where there's no unexpected wear on a part (seconds hand axle). Something that will last 5 to 10 years until the next service, as we've been used to with Rolex.

[Moretti]

Originally Posted by alphadweller

Call it long term fix if you prefer, we know what we're talking about here, a fix that doesn't require bringing your watch back to the RSC every year or so. A fix where there's no unexpected wear on a part (seconds hand axle). Something that will last 5 to 10 years until the next service, as we've been used to with Rolex.

This. Especially that Rolex itself recommends servicing intervals of 10 years.

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

My 126600 had similar issues as your DJ41, but after two round trips to the RSC, the watch has been running fine (knock on wood) with +1.5/day stored vertically (CR) at night for almost a year. I am hopeful that Rolex discovered the secret sauce for the 32xx movements.

That’s a great news. I really hope it stays like this and everyone with the affected watch can finally get it sorted.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Moretti

I was observing this watch wishing the issue won't develop but unfortunately now it's running around -2,5s per day.

May I ask a few questions?

- How much your watch loses during the day and how much overnight?
- What is the resting position overnight?
- You changed resting position?
- How do you measure the timekeeping?

[Moretti]

1. It's more or less equal. Around 1 second on the wrist, around 1 second during the night.
2. I have been leaving it DU ever since I bought it. Tonight I tried DD for the first time, I will report if this has changed anything in the long run.
3. Mentioned above, will report back what it looks like now.
4. I check it against time. is twice a day.

[saxo3]

It would be interesting to see your collection of data over a few days or weeks.

Timekeeping compensation depends on watch position at rest; good that you changed from DU (dial up) to DD (dial down) overnight, to see if this makes a difference.

I case you have access to a timegrapher, a measurement of the movement amplitudes and rates in 5 positions (after full winding) can give a good indication.

Anyhow, if you read already this (long) thread you know that already.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

My 126600 had similar issues as your DJ41, but after two round trips to the RSC, the watch has been running fine (knock on wood) with +1.5/day stored vertically (CR) at night for almost a year. I am hopeful that Rolex discovered the secret sauce for the 32xx movements.

Oh that’s great news. I’ll send my dj back in then.


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[B2 Stealth]

My two-year old BLNR has been losing substantial time lately--over 1 minute per week. My AD sent in to Rolex for a servicing. Disappointing. Hope my 10 month old BLRO doesn't exhibit same symptoms.

[Annan]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

My 126600 had similar issues as your DJ41, but after two round trips to the RSC, the watch has been running fine (knock on wood) with +1.5/day stored vertically (CR) at night for almost a year. I am hopeful that Rolex discovered the secret sauce for the 32xx movements.

I really hope you are right, Sheldon. I'm very anxious to buy a DJ41 but am continuing to await confirmation of a permanent fix. Not sure how such "confirmation" will come about, however.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Annan

I really hope you are right, Sheldon. I'm very anxious to buy a DJ41 but am continuing to await confirmation of a permanent fix. Not sure how such "confirmation" will come about, however.

Hello Ron, you have followed this thread from the very beginning and know that my 126600 was bought in 2017 and repaired in 2019. Today, two years later, my 3235 is running with stunning accuracy (= excellent timekeeping) and never needed a second repair under guarantee, which will end in 2022.

Originally Posted by Annan

I don't have access to a timegrapher. I can only share that I've owned two new DJ41s and both had time loss issues. Both went to RSC. Both came back running great. Both did not last.

I flipped the first DJ for the second DJ not knowing about the alleged 3235 issue. The first was bought in 2016 and the second in 2017.

No more 32XX for me.
Post #24 on 23.01.2021

To keep it short, I think, now in 2021/22, you can buy a DJ41 without risk. I would certainly also purchase a timegrapher, which is very cheap compared to a Rolex watch! Low amplitudes, after full winding, are still a key observable for a 32xx movement.

[Annan]

Thanks, saxo3! Your experience and advice gives me some encouragement.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Annan

Thanks, saxo3! Your experience and advice gives me some encouragement.

Ron,

I dont think we will ever know for 100% sure that Rolex have fixed any problems that there may or may not be with the 32xx movements.

Rolex have managed to be one of the most secretrive companies around.

They certainly do not make generally available knowledge about what they may or may not have done, changed, fixed or anything else.
They are super secretive about everything.

Just look at what happens when they release a new model.

For many years They waited until Baselworld and even then the new models were covered up in the showcases until literally the moment the show opened. Nobody got to see the new models.

All the speculation, guessed and wishes that we all see on the many forums were just nothing more than guesses.

Every year Rolex stumped everybody. No leaks at all from Rolex. Amazing security.

There are two so called "Tech Experts" on this forum. I do not know where either of them work but I think we can all be pretty sure that its not at Rolex in Geneva or Biel/Bienne.
If that is the case they will not be privy to everything that Rolex HQ know.

Rolex do update the service requirements for individual models occasionally and they even update parts but those parts have the same part number as previous versions so no one really can tell whats gone on.

Rolex do continually monitor what is happening with their movements, both new and old, and they act accordingly.

Having said all of that the OP41 range, that you so sensibly hanker after, have a movement that is now well tried and tested and any watch you find at an AD will be pretty fresh production and its very doubtful that you will have a problem.

It is not known, and Rolex will never say, if any new production watch has a movement that was made in any specific year. My guess is that rolex would "Rotate" their stocks of movements and use old one first and as rolex have continually been producing watches the stocks are probably rotated enough so that any movement being used now was updated if needed during its production. This I must add is pure speculation.

Speaking for myself, I have 2 watches with different 32xx movements and both are behaving excellently.

My Conclusion for you .... Go shopping, Get that DJ41 Don't delay.

[Annan]

What you say makes sense, Charles and thanks for your input as well.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Ron,

I dont think we will ever know for 100% sure that Rolex have fixed any problems that there may or may not be with the 32xx movements.

Rolex have managed to be one of the most secretrive companies around.

They certainly do not make generally available knowledge about what they may or may not have done, changed, fixed or anything else.
They are super secretive about everything.

I agree that such an announcement is unlikely to come at an upcoming Watches and Wonders. But given that we have an RSC watchmaker graciously participating in these discussions I can conceive of some future date where he may indicate receiving a redesigned part to be used in all services. Or perhaps a technical bulletin describing new assembly procedures. It seems quite unlikely that things will just grind along (no pun intended) for decades with a continual stream of problem movements being rebuilt to the same flawed spec.

[Annan]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

I agree that such an announcement is unlikely to come at an upcoming Watches and Wonders. But given that we have an RSC watchmaker graciously participating in these discussions I can conceive of some future date where he may indicate receiving a redesigned part to be used in all services. Or perhaps a technical bulletin describing new assembly procedures. It seems quite unlikely that things will just grind along (no pun intended) for decades with a continual stream of problem movements being rebuilt to the same flawed spec.

Yes, such an announcement of a redesigned part from our RSC watchmaker would certainly be helpful.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Annan

Yes, such an announcement of a redesigned part from our RSC watchmaker would certainly be helpful.

It might be helpful ….

But …

It just won’t happen

[CharlesN]

Hello all once again,

As is now customary for me I have been continually monitoring a couple of my watches and looking the readings.

I bought my Submariner-Date model 126610LN in late September 2020. It has the 3235 movement.

It started off in “Life” behaving extremely well and timekeeping was superlative.

It has been running since it was new continuously even if I have been wearing another watch.

I have been taking watch tracker (An app on my iPhone) data and also used my Timegrapher.

My Sub-Date has started to show some signs of it perhaps not doing as well as I hoped.

The timekeeping average (X) in seconds per day (s/d) has been decreasing steadily.

It started off for the first 2 or 3 months doing very well but as time has gone on it has continued the downward trend and is now losing about 1.5 s/d.

Of course, this is within the stated Rolex tolerances but it is a trend that I need to keep monitoring as this may be the beginning of the so-called 3235 curse.

My good friend saxo3 has prepared a graph which he kindly sent to me and I have added it below showing the problem. (My Submariner is in red).

On the same graph, he has shown a comparison with his Sea-Dweller model 126600 bought in October 2017. (Saxo3’s Sea-Dweller is in Blue).

The Vertical scale is in seconds per day (s/d) and the horizontal scale is is days after purchase from new.

On this graph, you can see how similarly the two watches ran in the beginning but saxo3’s Sea Dweller clearly developed the curse and after 2 years of ownership its timekeeping was extremely poor loosing almost 12 s/d. That obviously is outside any normal acceptable tolerances and it was taken in to saxo3’s local RSC.

After a period of time it was returned and the improvement is clearly and very apparent and is now gaining time daily, consistently.

Rolex clearly did something to “Fix” this Sea-Dweller. Obviously, Rolex will not say what they did and if they replaced any parts but it certainly looks as if they did a lot more than just a simple regulation.

I am certainly no mathematician, darn it, I can’t make a graph and that’s why saxo3 is so helpful to me as he is a guru at doing graphs (and other things).

You may notice vertical lines going through every data point. These are error bars, they show the standard deviation (1 sigma value) of the 5-positions measurements.

Even with these error bars nothing changes … the graphs are still remarkably similar.

A point that is interesting is that these two watches were bought in 2017 and 2020. There seems to be no difference between their performance and it is therefore unlikely that any significant improvements to the movements were made between the two production dates.

So, my conclusion: …

I now need to keep on monitoring and logging the timekeeping of my Submariner-Date with its 3235 movement. Has the beginning of the onset of the 3235 curse shown itself?





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[CharlesN]

I have added below a screen shot of my WatchTracker app page that has been monitoring my Submariner-Date.

You can clearly see the downward trend and I can not compensate overnight with any position. It seems to be in a downward (Loss) trend, which fits with the graph from saxo3.





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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have added below a screen shot of my WatchTracker app page that has been monitoring my Submariner-Date.

You can clearly see the downward trend and I can not compensate overnight with any position. It seems to be in a downward (Loss) trend, which fits with the graph from saxo3.





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Oh no. This is what happened with 126655. Thought I avoided the issue for the longest time and then it started to look like your time tracker graph. Amp dropping?


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[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Oh no. This is what happened with 126655. Thought I avoided the issue for the longest time and then it started to look like your time tracker graph. Amp dropping?


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Hi again,
Yes the Amplitude does seem to be dropping slowly.

I just don’t seem to ever have the higher (280 ish) amplitudes after a full wind that I used to have.


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[Driver8]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

A point that is interesting is that these two watches were bought in 2017 and 2020. There seems to be no difference between their performance and it is therefore unlikely that any significant improvements to the movements were made between the two production dates.

So, my conclusion: …

I now need to keep on monitoring and logging the timekeeping of my Submariner-Date with its 3235 movement. Has the beginning of the onset of the 3235 curse shown itself?

If it does prove to be the slowing issue on your 2020 3235, then first of all I'm sorry that's happened, but secondly I think it'll be "interesting" from production date standpoint. Some people are very keen to say this problem is just a teething issue with very early examples of the new movement, but considering the 3235 was introduced in 2015, a 2020 watch with the issue would indicate it's still a bit 'hit and miss' after 5 years in production. (And of course this poll is still showing 25% of respondees have had problems).

Considering the 3135 had an official lifespan of 27 years (1988 to the introduction of the 3235 in 2015) - if we assume the 3235 will have a similar lifespan, it means we're still seeing the same problem almost 20% through its life.

[CharlesN]

I am afraid only more time will tell to prove if i have the 3235 curse or not.

I expect Rolex make the movements in large bulk before they are released into any watch at all but over the years I woud have expected the faults to have been found by Rolex and rectified in any new movements made today.

It is rumoured that when Rolex get a watch in for service etc the movemnet is checked and updated parts are fitted if needed. The problem is the owner is never told. Its all too secretive.