Aaron Faber

[expensivetaste]

Originally Posted by onkyo

I know that most people are honest and would not do this. It really sucks to have to distrust everyone. Life is too short.

That it is....

[sleddog]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

Thank you! I hope to be here for a long time to come this is an excellent forum, I actually am convinced its the best and most informative place on the web! (in regard to rolex)

Great to hear and looking forward to the future with your involvement!!

Originally Posted by onkyo

Thank you for your support here Rob.

Pav,my pleasure.....If I can help in any shape or form on this matter,PM me!

[Changmaisausage]

Good luck Pav I hope everything is resolved soon. You have everyone's support (well most)

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by Changmaisausage

Good luck Pav I hope everything is resolved soon. You have everyone's support (well most)

Thanks David. 100% support is never possible. There is always a hold out!

I am honestly not worried... everything will work out fine. Thanks again!

[DRAWTOOL]

Bump, headed for page 2, not so fast...

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

BTW, what is all this Crap about Steve's English!? He's AUSTRALIAN!!! Of course his English sounds funny!!! Just like all those guys from Britan, and South Africa, and New Zealand; they ALL have such funny sounding accents! Heck, us Americans are the only ones that speak correct English!

Slight correction: Texans are the only ones that speak correct English.

[Deep Sea]

Originally Posted by Deep Sea

Mr. Expensivetaste,

You stink of somebody who has consumed the beverage of immortality with regard to this retailer...or are at their beck and call.

Have I done business with AF...no.
Do I have first-hand dealings with them...no.
Do I trust some of the long-time respected members here...absolutely.

You can tell us how wonderful this reseller is with all of your first-hand knowledge, and it does not fly...you have been here all of 10 minutes.

With regard to your kin & Sam Walton...well, I have a family members who worked directly for a US Senator, and I still can't get my own pet peeve laws passed. My point...who gives a crap who you your kin knew; it's not part & parcel to this dilemma.

Kind regards.

Martin

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

You are out of line sir, my comment of my grandfather was in relation to Pav stating I should go with him to talk to Mr. Faber. Not once did I say that Mr. Faber did not do this to Pav so I do not know where you get off slandering me. What does my "time" here have to do with anything?? I have stated how unfortunate this situation is. And I never questioned his integrity!

Mr. Expensivetaste,

Yep, I was probably a little harsh, perhaps a little rude. It was uncalled for, and for that I apologize. Out of line ... maybe, maybe not, depending on what you read into my post (what I implied, yet didn't explicitly write).

I've gone back & reread all of what you have written here. While you don't explicitly state so, you imply that what has been discussed here (Pav being wronged) could not have happened due to any and all of the following:

1. Farber is a founding member of the IWJG
2. He does millions of dollars worth of business each year
3. Farber "carries a lot of weight in the watch world"
4. "He is one of the most regarded watch enthusiasts in the world"

You continue to state that if this happened (Pav being wronged), then you hope it gets worked out soon. I think you may actually mean that, even with a little sincerity. However, I am still in complete disbelief how you have posted 18 times in this thread defending Farber (and explaining yourself). You have a total of 22 posts here, and 18 of them seem dedicated to poking a sharp stick at some of the more respected & long-standing members here.

You appear to be well-spoken (written) and have a deep appreciation for watches. You likely could be an asset to this website, but seeing how you've spent so much time explaining to us how Farber is so great, which flies clearly in the face of what we have learned from Pav, you can probably understand how some of may question your motive.

Pav has told us what he has been though, and we have no reason to doubt him. You feel Farber is a reputable, moral business, based on your personal experience. Seems to be quite a gap here amongst the jury pool....or maybe not. This thread has already had 5000 views, and I dare say most people here believe more that Pav is on the short end of the stick, rather than the other way around. You're entitled to your opinion, which you've made clear. Like it or not, Farber has already been convicted here, and the internet these days does not allow crooked or unscrupulous businesses to hide for very long. Farber can come forward anytime to state his side, with documentation to support, and I'm sure we'll all listen. That hasn't happened, and probably won't.

You've made a grand entrance to TRF, that is for sure. As to what you will be able to contribute here...time will tell. Hopefully this Farber thread 'touched a nerve' for you, and it's not necessarily going to be your norm for posting.

Time will tell...

Regards,

mk

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 777

Slight correction: Texans are the only ones that speak correct English.

Y'all think so?

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Y'all think so?

[expensivetaste]

Originally Posted by Deep Sea

Mr. Expensivetaste,

Yep, I was probably a little harsh, perhaps a little rude. It was uncalled for, and for that I apologize. Out of line ... maybe, maybe not, depending on what you read into my post (what I implied, yet didn't explicitly write).

I've gone back & reread all of what you have written here. While you don't explicitly state so, you imply that what has been discussed here (Pav being wronged) could not have happened due to any and all of the following:

1. Farber is a founding member of the IWJG
2. He does millions of dollars worth of business each year
3. Farber "carries a lot of weight in the watch world"
4. "He is one of the most regarded watch enthusiasts in the world"

You continue to state that if this happened (Pav being wronged), then you hope it gets worked out soon. I think you may actually mean that, even with a little sincerity. However, I am still in complete disbelief how you have posted 18 times in this thread defending Farber (and explaining yourself). You have a total of 22 posts here, and 18 of them seem dedicated to poking a sharp stick at some of the more respected & long-standing members here.

You appear to be well-spoken (written) and have a deep appreciation for watches. You likely could be an asset to this website, but seeing how you've spent so much time explaining to us how Farber is so great, which flies clearly in the face of what we have learned from Pav, you can probably understand how some of may question your motive.

Pav has told us what he has been though, and we have no reason to doubt him. You feel Farber is a reputable, moral business, based on your personal experience. Seems to be quite a gap here amongst the jury pool....or maybe not. This thread has already had 5000 views, and I dare say most people here believe more that Pav is on the short end of the stick, rather than the other way around. You're entitled to your opinion, which you've made clear. Like it or not, Farber has already been convicted here, and the internet these days does not allow crooked or unscrupulous businesses to hide for very long. Farber can come forward anytime to state his side, with documentation to support, and I'm sure we'll all listen. That hasn't happened, and probably won't.

You've made a grand entrance to TRF, that is for sure. As to what you will be able to contribute here...time will tell. Hopefully this Farber thread 'touched a nerve' for you, and it's not necessarily going to be your norm for posting.

Time will tell...

Regards,

mk

I appreciate your apology, but I assure you that I never implied that this could never have happened, and you seem to be the only person who has taken it that way! Yes the majority of my post's are on this thread as I was having conversation with fellow members and defending MY position in regards to MY personal dealings. Not once have I "poked sharp sticks" at any of the members of this forum. It would be very naive of me to believe that Mr. Faber is not capable of doing this, I for one do not put anything past anyone! But you sir are neither judge nor jury, and have no right to make accusations in regard to my character, integrity, or my intentions here. case in point being that if two people I know get involved in a dispute I take into consideration my dealings with both parties and though I may think that one has been wronged I will not discount 20 years of excellent personal experience. As i am sure you know that in the business world, nearly all seemingly upstanding businesses have had some history of what some consider shoddy business practices. Bad customer service happens every where across the board, so does good. I dont think that you should let one bad experience put you off especially when there are thousands who do business with this company everyday. I understand that being "new" here that I will be considered a guest, and this being the seemingly tight community that it is you will be skeptical! I sincerely hope that you have not passed judgment on me before you have taken the chance to know me.

[expensivetaste]

" However, I am still in complete disbelief how you have posted 18 times in this thread defending Farber (and explaining yourself). You have a total of 22 posts here, and 18 of them seem dedicated to poking a sharp stick at some of the more respected & long-standing members here."

I am still curious why you are putting so much emphasis on my status, I understand the skepticism as you should understand mine....if that is indeed the case. I decided to join at a time that was understandably difficult for several long standing members, but that just goes to show that you should take things with a grain of salt and make your decisions in life based not upon others, but your own experiences!

[Art161]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

that just goes to show that you should take things with a grain of salt and make your decisions in life based not upon others, but your own experiences!

If I had never visited a particular restaurant, and several of my friends told me that it is bad, I don't think I would dine there to find out for myself. On the other hand, if I had been there and liked it, I would continue to be a customer.

[expensivetaste]

Originally Posted by Art161

If I had never visited a particular restaurant, and several of my friends told me that it is bad, I don't think I would dine there to find out for myself. On the other hand, if I had been there and liked it, I would continue to be a customer.

That is exactly my point, it's like peoples ongoing dilemma with car dealerships or mechanics!

[TempoKing]

Welcome to TRF and rest assured that I read all you say
with great interest

1. Faber is a founding member of the IWJG

That does not mean a thing, I am a founding member of the Watch Traders
Association...As it happened ...I was ahead in line..lol.
Also a member of IWJG for over a decade - SO WHAT

2. He does millions of dollars worth of business each year

I do millions of dollars evey year too, you do not see or hear anyone asking me for their money back..?

3. Faber "carries a lot of weight in the watch world"

I go to many auctions, watch shows etc. here in America and in Europe
other than few watch shows here in the U.S. he is absent enywhere else
- a non entity.

4. "He is one of the most regarded watch enthusiasts in the world"

................So is Pavel ...and he wants his money back...NOW !

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by tgoose1

And it could be your piggy bank too. Appears to be a growing paper trail leading back to you, that could be construed as malicious intent to destroy someone's business reputation. This is outside of whatever happened w/Pav and the dealer regarding the Patek issue. It would be wise to proceed with caution and concern about what is now potentially out of your control, but not your accountability.

It seems to me that Mr Faber's own actions are destroying his business reputation, such that it is.

I am not buying into the "respected in the watch industry" nonsense since I've heard other accounts which directly contradict this viewpoint.

Also don't worry about me, Mr Goose. I am a big boy and can fight my corner if this Faber guy thinks he's got the bottle to bring me to account.

I've dealt with far worse than him.

[Deep Sea]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

I appreciate your apology, but I assure you that I never implied that this could never have happened, and you seem to be the only person who has taken it that way! Yes the majority of my post's are on this thread as I was having conversation with fellow members and defending MY position in regards to MY personal dealings. Not once have I "poked sharp sticks" at any of the members of this forum. It would be very naive of me to believe that Mr. Faber is not capable of doing this, I for one do not put anything past anyone! But you sir are neither judge nor jury, and have no right to make accusations in regard to my character, integrity, or my intentions here. case in point being that if two people I know get involved in a dispute I take into consideration my dealings with both parties and though I may think that one has been wronged I will not discount 20 years of excellent personal experience. As i am sure you know that in the business world, nearly all seemingly upstanding businesses have had some history of what some consider shoddy business practices. Bad customer service happens every where across the board, so does good. I dont think that you should let one bad experience put you off especially when there are thousands who do business with this company everyday. I understand that being "new" here that I will be considered a guest, and this being the seemingly tight community that it is you will be skeptical! I sincerely hope that you have not passed judgment on me before you have taken the chance to know me.

No, you're not a guest, you're a member. You're new, but nonetheless, you're a member just the same as the rest of us.

Regarding passing judgement, I don't think I have done so, as I already stated (not in so many words) that you're well written, and seem to have a deep appreciation of watches (with which knowledge is drawn from).

"Hopefully this Farber thread 'touched a nerve' for you, and it's not necessarily going to be your norm for posting" is a quote from my reply to you, which doesn't imply that I've already labeled you; quite the contrary, in my opinion.

As I said already, time will tell, so I'll go on the assumption that you wanted to make a point that you've had good dealings with Farber, and it snowballed from there.

Have a good Sunday, and welcome to the forum.

Regards,

mk

[expensivetaste]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Welcome to TRF and rest assured that I read all you say
with great interest

1. Faber is a founding member of the IWJG

That does not mean a thing, I am a founding member of the Watch Traders
Association...As it happened ...I was ahead in line..lol.
Also a member of IWJG for over a decade - SO WHAT

2. He does millions of dollars worth of business each year

I do millions of dollars evey year too, you do not see or hear anyone asking me for their money back..?

3. Faber "carries a lot of weight in the watch world"

I go to many auctions, watch shows etc. here in America and in Europe
other than few watch shows here in the U.S. he is absent enywhere else
- a non entity.

4. "He is one of the most regarded watch enthusiasts in the world"

................So is Pavel ...and he wants his money back...NOW !

In regards to Pav wanting his money back that is completely understandable! And he is in a unfortunate but seemingly warranted legal battle which if warranted should return his money in full! If everything is as he says then there should be no reason to worry as all documentation of said transactions will clear this mess up. I am merely stating my dealings with a well known and respected business. I feel as though I should back out of this thread as it this is getting out of hand and my statements are being taken completely out of context!

Heres a similar example of my point:

Say there is a used luxury car dealership that I have been conducting business with for many years without a hitch. But you being a good friend say that you have had a very bad experience and lost a lot of money with them, will that make me discontinue my dealings? No it will not, because I have had several excellent experiences with said dealer. These types of things happen every single day in the world, the auction houses that you deal with im sure have had many a disgruntled customer themselves..... it happens as I said every day. As for you doing millions in business with no unhappy customers......congrats, you have got to be the only person in the world doing business on such a grand scale with 100% customer satisfaction!

[expensivetaste]

Originally Posted by Deep Sea

No, you're not a guest, you're a member. You're new, but nonetheless, you're a member just the same as the rest of us.

Regarding passing judgement, I don't think I have done so, as I already stated (not in so many words) that you're well written, and seem to have a deep appreciation of watches (with which knowledge is drawn from).

"Hopefully this Farber thread 'touched a nerve' for you, and it's not necessarily going to be your norm for posting" is a quote from my reply to you, which doesn't imply that I've already labeled you; quite the contrary, in my opinion.

As I said already, time will tell, so I'll go on the assumption that you wanted to make a point that you've had good dealings with Farber, and it snowballed from there.

Have a good Sunday, and welcome to the forum.

Regards,

mk

Much appreciated, you do the same sir!

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Welcome to TRF and rest assured that I read all you say
with great interest

1. Faber is a founding member of the IWJG

That does not mean a thing, I am a founding member of the Watch Traders
Association...As it happened ...I was ahead in line..lol.
Also a member of IWJG for over a decade - SO WHAT

2. He does millions of dollars worth of business each year

I do millions of dollars evey year too, you do not see or hear anyone asking me for their money back..?

3. Faber "carries a lot of weight in the watch world"

I go to many auctions, watch shows etc. here in America and in Europe
other than few watch shows here in the U.S. he is absent enywhere else
- a non entity.

4. "He is one of the most regarded watch enthusiasts in the world"

................So is Pavel ...and he wants his money back...NOW !

Thank you Tempo ... but I am sure the only was I will get refunded/paid is via legal pressure.

[expensivetaste]

As I stated I am not going to continue bickering endlessly on this thread I sincerely hope that you get this worked out ONKYO......

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

In regards to Pav wanting his money back that is completely understandable! And he is in a unfortunate but seemingly warranted legal battle which if warranted should return his money in full! If everything is as he says then there should be no reason to worry as all documentation of said transactions will clear this mess up. I am merely stating my dealings with a well known and respected business. I feel as though I should back out of this thread as it this is getting out of hand and my statements are being taken completely out of context!

I am sure I will ultimately be refunded and Mr. Faber acknowledges he owes me the figures I gave. He is simply electing not to pay me.

Heres a similar example of my point:

Say there is a used luxury car dealership that I have been conducting business with for many years without a hitch. But you being a good friend say that you have had a very bad experience and lost a lot of money with them, will that make me discontinue my dealings? No it will not, because I have had several excellent experiences with said dealer. These types of things happen every single day in the world, the auction houses that you deal with im sure have had many a disgruntled customer themselves..... it happens as I said every day. As for you doing millions in business with no unhappy customers......congrats, you have got to be the only person in the world doing business on such a grand scale with 100% customer satisfaction!

There have been hitches..... which I was informed of later. No hitches for YOU maybe. But hitches for others. My experience is that Mr. Faber is unethical with deceptive business practices.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

As I stated I am not going to continue bickering endlessly on this thread I sincerely hope that you get this worked out ONKYO......

It will.... I have everything in place for exactly that to happen.

[expensivetaste]

How many times do I have to say that if that is the case, then I am saddened by the news, and hope that you have a speedy and favorable outcome?

[expensivetaste]

I can stand comfortably on the fence, and not jump to either side! Good day gentleman..........

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by expensivetaste

How many times do I have to say that if that is the case, then I am saddened by the news, and hope that you have a speedy and favorable outcome?

It is the case ..... both sides acknowledge it.

July 2010 email and response from Mr. Faber.


From: P ***[mailto:****@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 10:04 PM
To: Ed Faber; Jerri
Subject:



Hi Ed,

A quick reminder.... I hope you have not forgotten about me. I will call you tomorrow.

Best regards,

Pav


No I haven’t forgotten about you I hope your summer’s going well. I just returned from an extraordinary brief hike in the eastern alps in Switzerland. Working on a deal that will get us out of your/ our watch it should culminate in the show in NY starting on the 21st (there are actually 2 shows, 1 watch , 1 watch & jewelry). These fairs are major international dealer collector events, so I am very optimistic that we can conclude this matter soon and move forward.

All the best,



Edward Faber



AARON FABER GALLERY

666 Fifth Ave.

New York, NY 10103

T.212.586.8411

F.212.582.0205

efaber@aaronfaber.com

www.aaronfaber.com

[BarkMaster]

So he's holding on to your money until he sells the watch?

[esm]

whats 2 watch shows got to do with Aaron Fabrr Gallery needing to refund Pav's money when they were the one done the dodgy deal?

[BarkMaster]

Looks like Aaron Faber Inc was involved in an oft-quoted case regarding rendering a trademark counterfeit by modification (Cartier, Inc. v. Aaron Faber, Inc.)

Something tells me he's not respected in the watch MAKER community. At least not by Cartier.

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Very hard to believe that a seemingly reputable company would indulge in such business practices .
As Stevo correctly points out the "legal" conditions and terms used on their website are to say the least intriguing . I'm not a lawyer and even less in NYC , but can only assume that the wording would have been advised by Faber's legal councilor .
A bit like insurance companies , we very often sign a contract without having read the 14 pages small print because we trust our broker .

Why would Faber just not return Pavel's deposit and pay out the proceeds from the sale of the watch , when Faber seems to acknowledge the error ?

30K is a lot of money for most individuals but if it was a cash flow problem with the Faber gallery we could expect to have heard of similar cases , especially that this seems to have been going on for over six months . I can accept that there could have been a misunderstanding or mistake made even not directly by the hand of Faber . We could even suspect that Pavel somewhere acted or reacted in a way that could have delayed the solution . BUT .. SIX MONTHS !! ???

Very surprised that after a weekend of bashing Faber on the net , no official reaction has come out of it . We have seen a couple of new members coming to his defense , some arguments can be considered as valid . But none claimed to have been from Faber himself .

The post of Anastasios really hits the nail on the head . If Faber is all that what he seems to be known for .. why does he not defend it ? The reason more so to put it right and not wait six months and counting . Customer satisfaction is still sound business practice in my opinion and a good reputation takes years to build up and very little to destroy . So if this what is happening to Pavel is true , and I believe we have here no reason to doubt that this is not the case , Faber should react at once as he is ruining even more what is left of his reputation .

Still , I must admit that I'm puzzled

Really interesting to see the outcome of this , especially if we could establish if this publicity would prove to have been a catalyst in speeding up the outcome ... or let's hope not have made things worse .

Anyway , more important : Pav , I hope this gets sorted very soon for you !

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by 777

So he's holding on to your money until he sells the watch?

Yes... that what he says. But now its been 6 months after my deposit.... how long was I supposed to wait. I warned him time was up.