AP price increase again?

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

15407st is up to $57,900 (5% increase). There have been 3 price increases in the last 12 months (if my memory serves me correctly) ...

~$43,000 --> $51,500 --> $55,100 --> $57,900

That's a ~35% overall increase. Pretty wild.

Totally insane. I hope they don't become Panerai from 10 years ago. I bet many people thought back then that this trend and demand is "here to stay"

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by Jgives

Website updated in Vietnam too.
528,818,250 Dong! That’s a whole lotta Dong!

This cracked me up. I’ll admit it!

[Vipes]

It’s getting insane. I bought a 39mm ROC a few years back for 17-18K after discount. My ROC 26315 is now 30K before tax.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Jgives

Website updated in Vietnam too.
528,818,250 Dong! That’s a whole lotta Dong!

I know of no one slingin that kind of dong.

[dauster]

so my ROO 42mm went up by over $4k ?!?! over 16% - a watch that's not even popular. how does that make any sense?

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by Jgives

Website updated in Vietnam too.
528,818,250 Dong! That’s a whole lotta Dong!

Or as Leslie Phillips used to say Ding Dong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0awJf7OWMmo

[ap1]

I guess this is them taking back some from greys. I think these increases are nuts and maybe AP isn’t for me. It’s bad enough you have to beg the boutique/AD. They better hope the music doesn’t stop. I’ve basically been laughed at from dealers and that is WITH the attempt to bundle with a 42roo and what not. My 38roc has gone from 23.8 to 29.6 in the 13 months I’ve owned it

[macrowatch]

Looks like we're culling from top 5% of earners to top 1% to .09% to .08%....

It's getting pricey except for Tesla and Bitcoin holders!

[PBJ1925]

Wow, some of the % increases are wild. It'll be interesting to if it curbs any demand (which I don't believe it will).

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Looks like we're culling from top 5% of earners to top 1% to .09% to .08%....

It's getting pricey except for Tesla and Bitcoin holders!

Yup, AP is too rich for me.

[chiscott_29]

I find the RO increases "reasonable" given the state of the market. However, the increases on some Offshores and the Code line is genuinely concerning. Not sure I understand the philosophy here, but once again I don't see any email from Le Brassus asking for my opinion :-)

[huncho]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

15407st is up to $57,900 (5% increase). There have been 3 price increases in the last 12 months (if my memory serves me correctly) ...

~$43,000 --> $51,500 --> $55,100 --> $57,900

That's a ~35% overall increase. Pretty wild.

and anyone would still buy it in a heartbeat for that lol

[dauster]

Originally Posted by huncho

and anyone would still buy it in a heartbeat for that lol

I agree and I think it's fine to raise prices on the super hot models. but like someone else mentioned on codes and ROO 42mm ??? I don't get it.

Lange 1 vs Code time only ?!?! what a joke - code might actually be more expensive now.

[supersam80]

MSRP on the 26331st has increased by around 25% in USD in the 15 months I've owned it. Insane.

Having said that though the grey price seems to be a few thousand above msrp

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by huncho

and anyone would still buy it in a heartbeat for that lol

Until they won't.

Someone mentioned Panerai in this thread. Feels pretty much the same. I remember during the Panerai hype days everyone said it would never slow down, never drop in price, etc., etc.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by wiswrist

15407st is up to $57,900 (5% increase). There have been 3 price increases in the last 12 months (if my memory serves me correctly) ...

~$43,000 --> $51,500 --> $55,100 --> $57,900

That's a ~35% overall increase. Pretty wild.

Indeed. What kind of madness is this.

And *two* of the increases came within less than 7 weeks of each other.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by dauster

I agree and I think it's fine to raise prices on the super hot models. but like someone else mentioned on codes and ROO 42mm ??? I don't get it.

Lange 1 vs Code time only ?!?! what a joke - code might actually be more expensive now.

Indeed.

There's no planet on which I would place a basic CODE 11.59 above a Lange 1.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Until they won't.

Someone mentioned Panerai in this thread. Feels pretty much the same. I remember during the Panerai hype days everyone said it would never slow down, never drop in price, etc., etc.

i posted this earlier in the thread but these brands today are controlling the frenzy right now, this isn't "natural" anymore. it started off that way but they realized what it could be if they kept it up themselves and how much more money they could make if they make this last. obviously no one knows the future but it's a bit different this time. look at birkin bags, demand has always outweighed supply because hermes controls who can and can't buy them. if a brand keeps a sense of "prestige" around a product it's different than a fashion cycle linked to hype

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by huncho

i posted this earlier in the thread but these brands today are controlling the frenzy right now, this isn't "natural" anymore. it started off that way but they realized what it could be if they kept it up themselves. obviously no one knows the future but it's a bit different this time. look at birkin bags, demand has always outweighed supply because hermes controls who can and can't buy it

I don't know anything about handbags, but you're right... and at the same time, I think it's a strategy based on flawed information.

The frenzy is fueled by greys hoarding supply (see my many posts with photos from Instagram and elsewhere in TRF showing the hoarding that's going on). This drives up list prices, and yes, sale prices. Brands are keying off that, and it's wrong in my opinion. Eventually the bubble that the greys have created will pop.

I would very much prefer if AP raised prices, controlled supply, and ensured that vetted loyal collectors received the "grey market hyped" pieces, and there were repercussions for said collectors if they flip (say, in less than 12 months since purchase).

Unfortunately, that's a lot of work, and none of the brands seem to care to do that.

So, we still have pieces going to greys that collectors wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for (only to see their MSRP increase 4 or 5 times before they receive the piece, *if* they ever receive it).

That's not how you maintain loyalty in a business where long term loyalty from a medium sized pool of recurring buyers is critical to the longevity of your business.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I don't know anything about handbags, but you're right... and at the same time, I think it's a strategy based on flawed information.

The frenzy is fueled by greys hoarding supply (see my many posts with photos from Instagram and elsewhere in TRF showing the hoarding that's going on). This drives up list prices, and yes, sale prices. Brands are keying off that, and it's wrong in my opinion. Eventually the bubble that the greys have created will pop.

I would very much prefer if AP raised prices, controlled supply, and ensured that vetted loyal collectors received the "grey market hyped" pieces, and there were repercussions for said collectors if they flip (say, in less than 12 months since purchase).

Unfortunately, that's a lot of work, and none of the brands seem to care to do that.

So, we still have pieces going to greys that collectors wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for (only to see their MSRP increase 4 or 5 times before they receive the piece, *if* they ever receive it).

That's not how you maintain loyalty in a business where long term loyalty from a medium sized pool of recurring buyers is critical to the longevity of your business.

i agree and i feel bad for anyone that wants a watch that's impossible to get, but regardless giving it to greys only makes these watches more elusive. worst case the grey bubble pops like you say and AP can still control supply directly to customers

[dauster]

Originally Posted by huncho

i posted this earlier in the thread but these brands today are controlling the frenzy right now, this isn't "natural" anymore. it started off that way but they realized what it could be if they kept it up themselves and how much more money they could make if they make this last. obviously no one knows the future but it's a bit different this time. look at birkin bags, demand has always outweighed supply because hermes controls who can and can't buy them. if a brand keeps a sense of "prestige" around a product it's different than a fashion cycle linked to hype

I agree to a certain extent but I think it's also hype about certain hot models and if celebs and IG jump on another brand in a few years maybe panerai and lange will be on top (again). At the moment Cartier is getting a lot of traction and I see iced-out Santos models everywhere - 6 months ago these rappers were wearing skeletons and 5980s iced out. Not that only rappers are responsible for everything but just an example.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by dauster

I agree to a certain extent but I think it's also hype about certain hot models and if celebs and IG jump on another brand in a few years maybe panerai and lange will be on top (again). At the moment Cartier is getting a lot of traction and I see iced-out Santos models everywhere - 6 months ago these rappers were wearing skeletons and 5980s iced out. Not that only rappers are responsible for everything but just an example.

it's definitely hard to predict and i do believe rappers are the main reason all of this started years ago, but just another example, even though it's a bit of a different system, is the sneaker market. you see cycles of fashion brands getting a lot of hype (gucci, lv, dior, etc) but jordans forever stay hyped and everyone always ends up coming back to them once cycles end. again, it's a bit different because they drop once at a limited supply and that's it, but it's still all about scarcity and perceived value

[SMD]

I actually turned down a piece I was supposed to get before the holidays but got delayed into the new year. It's not the money, but something about two price increases on a piece in less than 6 months that makes me want to take a break from the current madness. Bought another Patek instead.

[chiscott_29]

Interesting conversation for sure. A few points from my perspective:

- I agree Lange 1 vs CODE isn’t a hard decision. That said, I’m once again going to go to bat for the CODE. All of the slack these models have gotten is from the same engine that fuels the 15202/15500/5711/116500 hype. It’s just the other end of the spectrum. The CODE is a beautiful watch...but you’re right it is no Lange :-)

- I don’t know if I agree with the Panerai analogy. Panerai flat out flooded the market and also had to ensure somewhat of a style shift in that many of their watches were simply gigantic. There is zero chance of AP flooding the market...even with CODEs. I also don’t think any significant part of their catalog caters to what may be a short term trend.

- Where I do feel AP is skating on thin ice is the perceived combination of favoring celebrity/influencers with aggressive price increases. It feels like the hot watches go to the same people. Maybe that’s not really fair but it’s just a feeling I have. I wouldn’t say AP is anywhere near Richard Mille in terms of blatant exclusivity, control of all supply, and outrageous pricing. It just feels a bit “dangerous” to me as a strategy. I am not quite sure how to best describe it...and maybe I’m smoking something. I dunno...


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by huncho

it's definitely hard to predict and i do believe rappers are the main reason all of this started years ago, but just another example, even though it's a bit of a different system, is the sneaker market. you see cycles of fashion brands getting a lot of hype (gucci, lv, dior, etc) but jordans forever stay hyped and everyone always ends up coming back to them once cycles end. again, it's a bit different because they drop once at a limited supply and that's it, but it's still all about scarcity and perceived value

sneakers and jordan brand is a good analogy but then again once they made the 11 concord models (super hyped before) accessible and released a lot of them everybody was wearing them and now they are perceived as "lesser".

[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

- Where I do feel AP is skating on thin ice is the perceived combination of favoring celebrity/influencers with aggressive price increases. It feels like the hot watches go to the same people. Maybe that’s not really fair but it’s just a feeling I have. I wouldn’t say AP is anywhere near Richard Mille in terms of blatant exclusivity, control of all supply, and outrageous pricing. It just feels a bit “dangerous” to me as a strategy. I am not quite sure how to best describe it...and maybe I’m smoking something. I dunno...


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Hard to make the comparison to RM in my opinion, they make so few watches (3,500) and their entry level watches are 100k or more, I feel like they are kind of an outlier.

Re AP I agree with you and that they are skating on thin ice with this strategy but I am also wondering if there ever planning to grow their current production levels.

40-50k watches is not a lot and if they are planning on keep making the same amount of watches each year the current state might stay the same for a while.

But if they decide to double production (still not a lot of watches actually) and the hype dies down I think the situation could normalize again.

My biggest problem with AP is that "it's not really worth it" for a small time guy that buys one watch a year to invest in the brand.

There is really nothing in sight that they can offer other than a blue 15500ST and maybe a 15202 which is essentially the same watch (yes I know it's not but still). They don't make any other hot model available that I could actually purchase with a history of let's say 3-4 watches bought at the same boutique.
On top of that they actually discontinue a ton of watches that might have been enticing but they no longer make - POG, black CE ROO 44mm.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by dauster

Hard to make the comparison to RM in my opinion, they make so few watches (3,500) and their entry level watches are 100k or more, I feel like they are kind of an outlier.

Re AP I agree with you and that they are skating on thin ice with this strategy but I am also wondering if there ever planning to grow their current production levels.

40-50k watches is not a lot and if they are planning on keep making the same amount of watches each year the current state might stay the same for a while.

But if they decide to double production (still not a lot of watches actually) and the hype dies down I think the situation could normalize again.

My biggest problem with AP is that "it's not really worth it" for a small time guy that buys one watch a year to invest in the brand.

There is really nothing in sight that they can offer other than a blue 15500ST and maybe a 15202 which is essentially the same watch (yes I know it's not but still). They don't make any other hot model available that I could actually purchase with a history of let's say 3-4 watches bought at the same boutique.
On top of that they actually discontinue a ton of watches that might have been enticing but they no longer make - POG, black CE ROO 44mm.

Good point and I agree. The only watches that I’m interested in is the 15202 and the RO perpetual. I recently bought the 38mm ROC and I don’t see myself buying 2 or 3 more APs to qualify for the 15202 and perpetual. Even if I do get the chance, 80k is hard to stomach for the perp.

[Ryann24]

It makes sense kinda.. if you raise the prices on peices people don't want, then the Grey's have to take a bigger loss to get the blue chip pieces..

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Vipes

Good point and I agree. The only watches that I’m interested in is the 15202 and the RO perpetual. I recently bought the 38mm ROC and I don’t see myself buying 2 or 3 more APs to qualify for the 15202 and perpetual. Even if I do get the chance, 80k is hard to stomach for the perp.

Totally agree with you here. The SS Perpetual is probably off my list, too. That hurts because it was definitely an object of affection to me and it’s probably the one model that got me infatuated with AP.

$80k absolutely gives me pause.


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[GreenLantern]

At $60-65k the SS RO QP was a relative bargain.

Now? Eh.