32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[saxo3]

Your calculated average rate value for all 5 rest positions results in +1,7 s/d, which is way off from -3 s/d on your wrist. Strange!

I can only recommend what I already wrote in #2600 and #2636:

I would ask the AD for a full set of 5-position timegrapher data after full caliber winding, only to keep it as a reference data set for later.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Youngling

I didn’t do any major, if any, manual winding. I’ve been wearing it for at least 12 hours everyday.

Should be sufficient to keep the 3235 movement amplitudes high (based on many data)

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Your calculated average rate value for all 5 rest positions results in +1,7 s/d, which is way off from -3 s/d on your wrist. Strange!

I can only recommend what I already wrote in #2600 and #2636:

I would ask the AD for a full set of 5-position timegrapher data after full caliber winding, only to keep it as a reference data set for later.

Yes I’m really confused on how it becomes -3 spd when I’m wearing it since the resting rates in different positions is so far off, as you mention. +1.7 spd would be much more appreciated than the current -3.

I know I will go to an AD as soon as I can, I’m just currently out of town but when I’m back on Thurday I will try to get timegrapher numbers.

My current plan is to let the power run out so the watch stops to ”reset it” and give it 60 windings. Then I will see if it’s still -3. If it is, I will let it ”break in” for at least a month before I consider getting it regulated. Would much rather have it be a bit fast than slow. I find it a little annoying since it’s my only watch.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Youngling

My current plan is to let the power run out so the watch stops to ”reset it” and give it 60 windings.

After 40 full crown turns (360 degrees each) a 3235 caliber is fully wound, measurements you find in this thread:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1704

60 full crown turns are not needed to achieve maximum amplitude values, but it also does not harm.

[Youngling]

Got it! Thank you! Hopefully it will start running closer to the average of the positions - that meaning a little on the faster side!

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Youngling

Hello again everyone,

A little update on my new sub (with the 3235). This first week of ownership I’ve been tracking it closely with the WatchTracker app and I’m pretty confused with the results. When I’m wearing it, it is consistently going -3 spd so I decided to experiment with how it performs in different positions. They’ve been in each position a minimum of 12 hours on which the eqv spd is based on:

DU: +1.8
DD: +4.8
9U: +1.9
3U: -0.5
6U: +0.5

These results are of course not exact but I think it gives a rough picture of its performance in the different positions.
I didn’t do any major, if any, manual winding. I’ve been wearing it for at least 12 hours everyday.

Now, how come the rate when I’m wearing it (-3 spd) is so completely different from the rates in the different positions? How can it even be slowing down when it is fast in nearly all positions?

As I understand it, a watch at rest typically runs faster (until last 10-20% of PR) than one actively worn. It’s counterintuitive but your results indicate healthy Watch as it stands .

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by dannyp

As I understand it, a watch at rest typically runs faster (until last 10-20% of PR) than one actively worn. It’s counterintuitive but your results indicate healthy Watch as it stands .

Oh, didn’t know about that, thank you. But still, isn’t -3 strangely far from the average of +1.7 in resting?

[LaxActium]

Funny I got my hand on a timegrapher today and none of the reading coincides with real life usage of any of the watches I tested.
I did all different positions of course.
My month of DJ41 is about -0.8 to -1 second a day slow but none of the readings of various positions showed it was a minus value.

My SMP is +1.8 seconds a day but the readings were as bad as -4 seconds dial up.

My Pelagos is about -2 seconds a day but all positions showed a positive reading.
And I also tested all my other important watches.

Regardless, seemed like the timegrapher was more of a random number generator than a precise calibration aid!


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Youngling

Oh, didn’t know about that, thank you. But still, isn’t -3 strangely far from the average of +1.7 in resting?

Hey did you get the date or no date? I ask because my Dd really slowed over the time change over point. Think you where no date from memory.

You super active during the day? movement and shocks affect the timing as well.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Youngling

DU: +1.8
DD: +4.8
9U: +1.9
3U: -0.5
6U: +0.5

Now, how come the rate when I’m wearing it (-3 spd) is so completely different from the rates in the different positions?

John, with + 4.8 s/d in dial down overnight and -3 s/d during daytime on your wrist, a very simple calculation shows that it should be possible to fully compensate the daytime losses during 9h 14min in DD position overnight, theoretically!
Try a few days to rest your 126610LN Submariner Date always in DD overnight (for example 10 h) and continue with Watch Tracker. I would reset the Submariner time, do a full winding, and start a new WT logging for 1 week at least.
Two WT data points per day are sufficient: one in the evening when you placed your watch at rest and one in the morning before you put the watch onto your wrist.

[CharlesN]

I would like a little more information before I start to make my thoughts ….

Youngling (John) Firstly you have a great watch and you have nothing to worry about . That’s important for you to know and remember.

Your watch is a classic, Wear and enjoy it in the very best of health.

If you watch is “Sick” and at present that has NOT been shown at all, Rolex will fix the problem and you have 5 years of warranty for the possible fault to show itself.

No onto the case in hand.

Please can you give us more information …

How active are you during the day ?
Are you active all day or just for short periods of time ?
Do you sit at a desk or table for long periods ?
What is the ambient temperature around you during the day and when your watch is at rest at night ?
What surface do you rest your watch on at night ? (Wood, Glass or a cloth etc ?)

All of the above questions can have a bearing on the timekeeping of your watch.

I am currently wearing an Explorer II This has the 3285 movement .. Very similar to yours except for the extra hand.
My watch also has the “Swings” between day and night timekeeping but with night positioning I am managing to keep my watch running with a very acceptable error.

I have attached here a copy of my current WatchTracker graph. It has been running for 141 days now. The figures speak for themselves i think.

I can say that the "Swings" are consistant to my timegrapher findings.

Saxo3 has suggested you get your local AD to place your watch on a chronoscope, i totally agree, But ... Please ask for a full winding, followed by 15 mins at rest and then the 5 positions test (NOT 12 up). Those figures will hopefully tell us everything we need to know.

[George58]

you guys must be a blast at a party

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Hey did you get the date or no date? I ask because my Dd really slowed over the time change over point. Think you where no date from memory.

You super active during the day? movement and shocks affect the timing as well.


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3235 = date. I’m pretty sure it is now slowing down drastically when changing date, and my watch is also faster when rested.

I would say normally active. Since it’s summertime I tend to take it a bit easy but it always runs -3, even if I’m out all day (with one hour tennis). This movement should be pretty shock resistent and the timekeeping hasn’t changed at all after a few tennis sessions.

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by saxo3

John, with + 4.8 s/d in dial down overnight and -3 s/d during daytime on your wrist, a very simple calculation shows that it should be possible to fully compensate the daytime losses during 9h 14min in DD position overnight, theoretically!
Try a few days to rest your 126610LN Submariner Date always in DD overnight (for example 10 h) and continue with Watch Tracker. I would reset the Submariner time, do a full winding, and start a new WT logging for 1 week at least.
Two WT data points per day are sufficient: one in the evening when you placed your watch at rest and one in the morning before you put the watch onto your wrist.

Yes I’m sure I can achieve nearly perfect timekeeping by adjusting resting positions since they’re all positive, for example the DD as you meantion is nearly +5. The only problem is I want to be able to wear my watch as much as I want without worrying about timekeeping (maybe +0 to +2 on wrist). Maybe that is too much to ask for hahah

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Youngling

3235 = date. I’m pretty sure it is now slowing down drastically when changing date, and my watch is also faster when rested.

I would say normally active. Since it’s summertime I tend to take it a bit easy but it always runs -3, even if I’m out all day (with one hour tennis). This movement should be pretty shock resistent and the timekeeping hasn’t changed at all after a few tennis sessions.

Yeah this is categorically what was happening with my DD. Unfortunately not that uncommon but it's not a hard fix from what I can tell.

For me I verified this but leaving the watch on a timegrapher during the change period, as dial up during the day the watch was +2 yet always ended up slow for a 24hr period...

In the absence of a timegrapher try taking a measurement every 8 hours or so pin point if it's a change friction issue.

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I would like a little more information before I start to make my thoughts ….

Youngling (John) Firstly you have a great watch and you have nothing to worry about . That’s important for you to know and remember.

Your watch is a classic, Wear and enjoy it in the very best of health.

If you watch is “Sick” and at present that has NOT been shown at all, Rolex will fix the problem and you have 5 years of warranty for the possible fault to show itself.

No onto the case in hand.

Please can you give us more information …

How active are you during the day ?
Are you active all day or just for short periods of time ?
Do you sit at a desk or table for long periods ?
What is the ambient temperature around you during the day and when your watch is at rest at night ?
What surface do you rest your watch on at night ? (Wood, Glass or a cloth etc ?)

All of the above questions can have a bearing on the timekeeping of your watch.

I am currently wearing an Explorer II This has the 3285 movement .. Very similar to yours except for the extra hand.
My watch also has the “Swings” between day and night timekeeping but with night positioning I am managing to keep my watch running with a very acceptable error.

I have attached here a copy of my current WatchTracker graph. It has been running for 141 days now. The figures speak for themselves i think.

I can say that the "Swings" are consistant to my timegrapher findings.

Saxo3 has suggested you get your local AD to place your watch on a chronoscope, i totally agree, But ... Please ask for a full winding, followed by 15 mins at rest and then the 5 positions test (NOT 12 up). Those figures will hopefully tell us everything we need to know.

Thank you Charles for such an extensive reply! I appreciate you and your compliments. Yes, I still love my watch but want to get a good understanding of its timekeeping first :)
Here’s the answers to your questions in the same order:

Pretty active I would say. I walk alot, drives a bit and played one hour of tennis per day.
There are of course times during the day when I’m less active and just reading a book or reading threads here :)
No.
Around 20 degrees celsius.
Wood or one of these Rolex Service Pouches I think you call them.

Yes as I said to Saxo, I’m certain I can achieve nearly perfect timekeeping by resting it differently during night but I’m one of those weirdos that would want to sleep with the watch on. When I tried that it STILL was -3 even though when you’re sleeping it’s like resting it just that the position changes.

Are your positional rates, according to your timegrapher, close to the rate when wearing?

Got it, but why is it better to test the watch on a timegrapher 15min after full wind? Just curious since I’m not that experienced.

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yeah this is categorically what was happening with my DD. Unfortunately not that uncommon but it's not a hard fix from what I can tell.

For me I verified this but leaving the watch on a timegrapher during the change period, as dial up during the day the watch was +2 yet always ended up slow for a 24hr period...

In the absence of a timegrapher try taking a measurement every 8 hours or so pin point if it's a change friction issue.

Oh sorry!! My bad! I must have completely miss-typed. I was meant to write ”not”, not ”now”. I missed that. I don’t think mine has the same error.

Sorry!

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Youngling

Oh sorry!! My bad! I must have completely miss-typed. I was meant to write ”not”, not ”now”. I missed that. I don’t think mine has the same error.

Sorry!

no worries at all, but if the timing doesn't match your static results keep an eye on this as a possible reason.

Overall basically all of my watches, (omega, nomos, patek, rolex) run 2s per day slower than my dial up timing give or take. Now my level of activity is likely different from yours. Do you have any other mechanical watch you can compare to where you compare resting timing vs wearing?

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Youngling

Yes I’m sure I can achieve nearly perfect timekeeping by adjusting resting positions since they’re all positive, for example the DD as you meantion is nearly +5. The only problem is I want to be able to wear my watch as much as I want without worrying about timekeeping (maybe +0 to +2 on wrist). Maybe that is too much to ask for hahah

The thing you have to remember is that Rolex's +2/-2 spec is intended as an average, over the course of days/weeks/months. It's not necessarily intended to be the spec in any one position. If you just wear it 12hrs and leave it DD for 12, you'll average +0.9, which is pretty good if you ask me.

My personal suggestion:

1. Buy a second Rolex
2. Alternate days you wear the two
3. Wear each for 12hrs/day
4. Leave your Sub DU/9U when not worn

By my calculations, your Sub will be running at an average of -0.15 to -0.3 S/D (and assuming similar for the other). Most importantly: You have an excuse to buy a second Rolex .

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Youngling

I’m pretty sure it is now slowing down drastically when changing date

I have an idea but what do you mean exactly?
How did you measure the "slowing down drastically"?

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by saxo3

I have an idea but what do you mean exactly?
How did you measure the "slowing down drastically"?

I interpreted that to mean a temporary slow-down that happens as the date wheel engages.

I wonder whether there's significantly less friction as that happens in the DD position, hence the substantial difference noted in the timegrapher results? I would have thought that the DD and DU would be a little closer to each other.

Something else he could try, just to see: Set the watch 12hrs off, then try different rest positions at night, so that the watch is being rested without any movement of the date mechanism.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by dannyp

I interpreted that to mean a temporary slow-down that happens as the date wheel engages.

Thanks Danny, I am interested in what John meant.

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Thanks Danny, I am interested in what John meant.

It was a typo, I’m sorry! I was meant to write ”not”, not ”now”.

”It is NOT slowing down drastically” during date change

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by dannyp

The thing you have to remember is that Rolex's +2/-2 spec is intended as an average, over the course of days/weeks/months. It's not necessarily intended to be the spec in any one position. If you just wear it 12hrs and leave it DD for 12, you'll average +0.9, which is pretty good if you ask me.

My personal suggestion:

1. Buy a second Rolex
2. Alternate days you wear the two
3. Wear each for 12hrs/day
4. Leave your Sub DU/9U when not worn

By my calculations, your Sub will be running at an average of -0.15 to -0.3 S/D (and assuming similar for the other). Most importantly: You have an excuse to buy a second Rolex .

Hahahah, thank you for the great suggestion! You forgot about one step though:

0. Save enough money for a second rolex

[Youngling]

Originally Posted by amanbra

no worries at all, but if the timing doesn't match your static results keep an eye on this as a possible reason.

Overall basically all of my watches, (omega, nomos, patek, rolex) run 2s per day slower than my dial up timing give or take. Now my level of activity is likely different from yours. Do you have any other mechanical watch you can compare to where you compare resting timing vs wearing?

Interesting that you’re experiencing something similar - wearing rate doesn’t match with static rates. I unfortunetaly don’t have any other mechanical watches for comparison

[saxo3]

It makes no sense to compare timegrapher dial up rates with watch accuracy on a wrist. Or does anybody keep his watch during a whole day in dial up position? More realistic is to compare with the average rate (X) measured for 5 positions. In your case it is the comparision -3 vs +1.7 and not -3 vs +1.8 s/d, which is by chance nearly the same.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Youngling

Interesting that you’re experiencing something similar - wearing rate doesn’t match with static rates. I unfortunetaly don’t have any other mechanical watches for comparison

Wear rate never matches static generally so it’s not a reason to be concerned in isolation. The watchmakers can only really regulate for static and have no idea how will wear it.

I find dial up to be a good proxy for me without bogging down in silly amounts of testing. It’s a very consistent proxy for me.

There is one other aspect I think you should explore and this is one where you will need timegrapher results as others have mentioned. You may have large variances between your positions and you might be in that position for a long time with how you wear it. Also amplitude I’d imagine could have a large bearing on stability during wearing the watch.

You appear to be interested enough in all this to buy a timegrapher. Even a iPhone timegrapher maybe, it’s a rabbit hole but some people do enjoy this stuff so consider it.


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

It makes no sense to compare timegrapher dial up rates with watch accuracy on a wrist. Or does anybody keep his watch during a whole day in dial up position? More realistic is to compare with the average rate (X) measured for 5 positions. In your case it is the comparision -3 vs +1.7 and not -3 vs +1.8 s/d, which is by chance nearly the same.

It’s worked for me for 14 watches now as a quick proxy. Working in finance appears that it’s a position the watch is in a lot and yields very accurate real world approximations for me. It’s very common in the finance world to find indicators that correlate well real world results and use them as a proxy. Guess it’s not in yours hey?

If it doesn’t work for you that’s fine.


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[illiguy]

Apologies for not reading the first 89 pages. Is there a correlation, for those that experienced movement issues, having early generation 32xx movement watches? Or folks finding issues in 2022 released watches?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Apologies for not reading the first 89 pages. Is there a correlation, for those that experienced movement issues, having early generation 32xx movement watches? Or folks finding issues in 2022 released watches?

Tad early to tell for 2022. The problem take a while to manifest. We have had reports of some falling Ill but don’t know the rate.

The latest issue I had was a 3255 Nov 2021.


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