The Official Formula One Thread!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Andad

With 5 laps to go LH was 5 seconds ahead and MV was losing time.

Then there was an incident.

Next thing we see is MV with soft tyres alongside LH with one lap to go.

This was a complete travesty and MV had no right to claim a win.

The stewards and the race director should be tossed out.

The end of this race was a joke and.made a fool of everyone who watched it and all who follow F1.

Wrong! It was even worse: 5 laps remaining and when the accident happened HAM was 11.962 s ahead of VER.







And at that moment (screen shot below but difficult to see) VER was about one wheel length ahead of HAM, not allowed and should have been penalized.

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by Andad

With 5 laps to go LH was 5 seconds ahead and MV was losing time.

Then there was an incident.

Next thing we see is MV with soft tyres alongside LH with one lap to go.

This was a complete travesty and MV had no right to claim a win.

The stewards and the race director should be tossed out.

The end of this race was a joke and.made a fool of everyone who watched it and all who follow F1.

Agreed. It’s like winning a football game 5-1 with one minute to go and the referee suddenly blows his whistle and says “for the last minute we’re going to restart at 0-0 for laughs”. Will put me off watching this “sport”. The rules are a nonsense.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Wrong! It was even worse: 5 laps remaining and when the accident happened HAM was 11.962 s ahead of VER.







And at that moment (screen shot below but difficult to see) VER was about one wheel length ahead of HAM, not allowed and should have been penalized.

My typo E, I remember saying to my wife with 5 laps to go that MV needed to pick up more than two seconds a lap to even catch LH.
Next thing they were side by side with one lap to go an MV had new soft tyres.

Go figure that one out?

The race ending was joke and I would be surprised if rule changes are not made for future races.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

While i don’t agree with a few parts, i do agree with LH being at least 5 seconds ahead and the race essentially over. I’m a max fan and i didn’t see any way he was getting in done with just a few to go. But, Lewis has every opportunity to make a tire change and decided against it. Obviously the SC changed everything.

It does seem that a crash in the last 10 laps or so could derail a leader that’s substantially ahead. You get a full SC and that gap disappears instantly. I think that portion of the sport needs work. An insider that’s in the back of the pack and derails the entire race should have have a substantial impact on the leaders, IMO.

Did you mean shouldn’t?

[Oxfordian]

Sad for Lewis to lose the race in the way that he did but he has been the beneficiary of safety car luck on quite a few occasions in the past, so in many respects what goes around comes around, and on this occasion Lewis didn’t have the luck.

Irrespective of who you support neither driver was at fault, the teams threw their respective dices and made their choices, when the decision was made to get the lapped cars out of the way, as they have done on many many occasions, and then get the race going the two drivers had jobs to do, Lewis stop Max getting past, Max to overtake Lewis. This time Max got the job done without issue and won the race and became WDC as a result, congratulations Max.

The decision cannot be overturned as neither team or driver did anything wrong in the safety car period or on the last lap.

What needs to happen is for F1 to sort out what happens with lapped cars in a safety car situation. If you the leader, have built up a 10 second lead, have 3 or 4 cars between you and the car in second place and there is an incident which requires a safety car why are those lapped cars allowed to pass the leader? For me if you have done all the hard work getting past back markers why is your rival allowed to have these cars removed and their job made easier?

Lewis should have won and been champion for the 8th time, F1 needs to look at itself and work out how it got so many decisions wrong over the course of 2021, but the result must stand, the drivers did what they should have over that last lap, they raced, Max won and won fairly, no appeal should be allowed to overturn that decision otherwise what little credibility F1 has left will disappear and make them a laughing stock.

Congratulations Max enjoy the moment you are the Champion. Unlucky Lewis - maybe next year for your 8th title, if George allows you to win it.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

If you the leader, have built up a 10 second lead, have 3 or 4 cars between you and the car in second place and there is an incident which requires a safety car why are those lapped cars allowed to pass the leader? For me if you have done all the hard work getting past back markers why is your rival allowed to have these cars removed and their job made easier?

Aye, there's the rub.

[daveathall]

The first 57 laps were made irrelevant by the decision. They may as well have had a 1 lap race between 2 cars, one with brand new slick tyres, the other with hard tyres 30 laps old and see who wins. It was a ridiculous decision. The decision to wave past only 5 back markers made the work done during the previous 50 odd laps pointless.

I still think the result should stand though.

[JonaG]

Gutting. Was doing well avoiding seeing the result as I couldn’t catch it live but got a glimpse of max on the train monitor on the way home so I guessed. Just watched it and thought I must’ve seen wrong. Unbelievable. Why do merc always insist on keeping Lewis out? It’s their MO. Granted, the SC debacle threw a spanner in the works but if Lewis had had fresher boots…

Well, F1s owners got what they wanted: a new WC…congrats!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Andad

My typo E, I remember saying to my wife with 5 laps to go that MV needed to pick up more than two seconds a lap to even catch LH.
Next thing they were side by side with one lap to go an MV had new soft tyres.

Go figure that one out?

The race ending was joke and I would be surprised if rule changes are not made for future races.

A typo?
But one could argue that 5 x 2 is approx. 11,9
Everybody who saw the race knew that VER had new tyres, check yourself?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

The decision cannot be overturned as neither team or driver did anything wrong in the safety car period or on the last lap.

That is not fully true. F1 has very strict rules and VER did one error in round 57, which should have had consequences:
VER slight overtook HAM when the SC phase was ending, which is against the rules.
See last photo in #2911, or watch again the end of the race.

I'm neither pro nor contra HAM or VER, but the outcome (and how it happened) of this race, and therefore the entire F1 season, was very weird to me.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by saxo3

That is not fully true. F1 has very strict rules and VER did one error in round 57, which should have had consequences:
VER slight overtook HAM when the SC phase was ending, which is against the rules, see last photo in #2911, or watch the end of the race again.

I'm neither pro nor contra HAM or VER, but the outcome (and how it happened) of this race, and therefore the entire F1 season, was very weird to me.

It was fixed, FIA were desperate to have a different winner.


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[1st amg]

How come no one talks about the first lap? Yes yes the stewards said no investigation….bla blah blah, but Hamilton gets away with that running wide MV a few races ago and MV has to give that position back. Seems like the Hamilton gang conveniently forgets this.

Max was ahead of Hamilton in turn one. Period.


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[AshAP]

The trouble with MV is that all year he drove his car like he stole it. At turn 1 Max pushed Hamilton off the track and was fortunate that Hamilton managed to avoid any contact. Anyway the result stands.


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[Speedbird-1]

The 'result' stinks, and will always stink.
The organizers screwed up, big time.
Whatever the outcome of any protest, it will forever be smeared with the mismanagement by the FIA and its officials.

A hollow victory indeed, whomever ends up with the crown.

I have actually been to a p**s-up in a brewery, (at Fuller Smith & Turner's fine Griffin Brewery) and can happily confirm that it was better organised than that last lap.

[Oxfordian]

The biggest issue this season has been the inconsistency of the stewarding of the races, rules have not been applied the same way in all instances the lap one incident being a classic example.

F1 has only itself to blame for the mess that it finds itself in, too many rules open to different interpretations and therefore different decisions are made, in many cases the racing has taken a back seat to the off track arguments and that cannot be right, races and titles should be won by the driver on the track not in a court room.

The arguments/protests/appeals for this season need to stop now and F1 needs to move on and start prepping for 2022 otherwise no one will know who is the defending champion when the season kicks off in around 16 weeks time.

This season has been very good in the main with the championship lead swinging one way then the other before a one lap shoot out gave the WDC to Max, but within that there have been too many off track arguments, arguments that have dragged the sport down.

Will this make 2022 any better? I have my doubts but remain hopeful.

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by Uggi

Agreed. It’s like winning a football game 5-1 with one minute to go and the referee suddenly blows his whistle and says “for the last minute we’re going to restart at 0-0 for laughs”. Will put me off watching this “sport”. The rules are a nonsense.

It is no longer a "sport". It is "entertainment" just like wrestling. Fake and fixed for ratings. Masi should be replaced by Vince McMahon at least he would make it more entertaining.

[Tricolore66]

I agree that Hamilton seemed to gain an unfair advantage, but sticking your nose in doesn’t mean you‘ve won the corner. Lewis had no choice to run off or both of their races likely end right there. I’m happy for Max though. I think Lewis largely had a better car this year but Max’s aggressive driving ultimately was the difference, and that’s what the drivers championship should reward. The ending does feel a bit like winning a World Cup on penalty kicks though, and that never feels entirely satisfying. I’m sorry to see Mercedes is trying to litigate the result.

Originally Posted by 1st amg

How come no one talks about the first lap? Yes yes the stewards said no investigation….bla blah blah, but Hamilton gets away with that running wide MV a few races ago and MV has to give that position back. Seems like the Hamilton gang conveniently forgets this.

Max was ahead of Hamilton in turn one. Period.


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[1st amg]

With all due respect, and I sincerely mean it as we have a great group here….we are all arm chair racers and our opinions are what get is in trouble. But when two world champions in Jenson Button and Nico Rosberg both cannot believe that in lap one Hamilton was not asked to give the spot back, I tend to side with two world champions. They both were beside themselves. Race gods gave the victory to who they believe deserved it.


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[NAVY]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

How come no one talks about the first lap? Yes yes the stewards said no investigation….bla blah blah, but Hamilton gets away with that running wide MV a few races ago and MV has to give that position back. Seems like the Hamilton gang conveniently forgets this.

Max was ahead of Hamilton in turn one. Period.


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Lewis fans have short memories!

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

With all due respect, and I sincerely mean it as we have a great group here….we are all arm chair racers and our opinions are what get is in trouble. But when two world champions in Jenson Button and Nico Rosberg both cannot believe that in lap one Hamilton was not asked to give the spot back, I tend to side with two world champions. They both were beside themselves. Race gods gave the victory to who they believe deserved it.


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I believe there were 3 former world champions - forgot Damon Hill ...

[enjoythemusic]

Maybe Hamilton will learn to better protect the 'inside'.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Maybe Hamilton will learn to better protect the 'inside'.

Finally someone said it!!

Hamilton hasn't had to drive defensively for nearly 9 years because the Mercedes has been such a rocket, but he hasn't protected the inside all year. Why not make Max or Checo for that matter go around the long way?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Maybe Hamilton will learn to better protect the 'inside'.

If he'd done that, Max would of sailed round the outside.

Someone said of Hamilton's tires, it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight

[AshAP]

Hamiltons car next year needs those James Bond retractable wheel spikes imo.


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[TswaneNguni]

For me ,who usually find F1 extremely boring,this was one of the most dramatic few minutes in sports history .Amazing !!

What do you experts want ? The dramatic season to end behind a safety car ?
He made the right call ...let them race !!!

Red Bull took the chance ...new hard tyres..then new softs ..and it worked at the end .


BTW the 2022 cars look amazing ,much better than 2021's designs .
All changes for closer racing .

Looks like Ferrari are also waking up ...Red Bull/Mercedes/Ferrari tussle ? ..with exciting new drivers .

Verstappens win is the best thing that could have happened for F1 .
I'll be watching !

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by Andad

Did you mean shouldn’t?

Haha yes, thanks.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by AshAP

It was fixed, FIA were desperate to have a different winner.

Exactly. And not only that, please note that if HAM were to win the championship it would have been the only one with 8 titles, one ahead of MSC.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by The Joker

If he'd done that, Max would of sailed round the outside.

Someone said of Hamilton's tires, it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight

ahhhh no. Hamilton could have covered the inside on lap 1 when everyone had fresh tires but he left the door open for Max. Perez was able to defend against Lewis on old soft tires and Lewis on new tires with no issues because he knows how to drive defensively. All year, Hamilton's not been defending and yet another reason why Lewis is not the best driver on the grid, but certainly has the best car.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

For me ,who usually find F1 extremely boring,this was one of the most dramatic few minutes in sports history .Amazing !!

What do you experts want ? The dramatic season to end behind a safety car ?
He made the right call ...let them race !!!

Red Bull took the chance ...new hard tyres..then new softs ..and it worked at the end .


BTW the 2022 cars look amazing ,much better than 2021's designs .
All changes for closer racing .

Looks like Ferrari are also waking up ...Red Bull/Mercedes/Ferrari tussle ? ..with exciting new drivers .

Verstappens win is the best thing that could have happened for F1 .
I'll be watching !

It was amazing drama, which is good for the sport and gaining new fans - agreed.
Max is an incredible driver, worthy of a world championship - agreed
A change to who usually wins is welcome - agreed

But this is a 'sport' not WWF and the rules/regulations have to be defined and be consistent. A ref can't just add an extra 10mins to a football game because it's 3-3 and a winner would be great.

With hindsight Mercedes would off pitted, but Max would of stayed out, and if this race ended under the safety as it should of, Mercedes come 2nd.

The stewards and Masi need to be replaced for next year and the rules/regulations need tightening up.

[SDGT3]

I kept waking up in the middle of the night with the voice in my head of a man in heavy German accent saying, "No, no Michael this isn't right".