Czapek

[rag5178]

I hope that Czapek considers hiring an additional staff member whose only responsibility is to maintain regular contact with any customers who are approaching or past their original delivery windows. Proactive updates would avoid all of this frustration for customers and seems like it could be done for a very small price to Czapek in the long run with great benefit to their brand.

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by mikemargolis

Yes, I emailed Emma, and promptly crossed it off my to-do list, as I forwarded it to the only person who was capable of answering at the time.

We are trying to keep up with the requests and emails.

I apologize that the ball was dropped during my vacation.

I got the CEO involved in this today, and we will push as hard as we can to get your watch out asap. No date promises until the team is back in the office, but it shouldn't be too much longer.

Thanks Mike. Some attention is all I'm requesting.

[vitalsigns]

These ^^ circumstances just make me shake my head in light of the intervening limited editions that Czapek is able to pump out. Czapek cannot timely satisfy orders despite substantial down payments made in good faith, yet they can dedicate resources to multiple limited editions over the same time period. Sounds like they've intentionally chosen a particular business model...

[Gebbeth]

Originally Posted by golfer_john

So the watch had a stated lead time of 15 months that is now just over 17 months. The fact is they are a small company struggling with growing pains. Their partial direct to the consumer model might need rethinking given the communication breakdown you’re experiencing. In hindsight, buying from an AD might have added value to the process for you. Hope you get the piece soon.

Perhaps, but what guarantee is that? These boards and others are full of AD horror stories for other brands that are short of supply, and if anything, some people have been clamoring for getting rid of the AD system altogether. ADs can also be another layer of allocation....they make the decisions on top of the factory. So you are between a rock and a hard place.

I've had good and bad experiences with ADs (Rolex was awful...I had good and bad experiences with 2 different Grand Seiko ADs, ALS was "disinterested" but probably because they were losing their AD status, GO was very good), so I decided to do the direct route this time.

At the end of the day, it is what it is....as long as they are communicating that they are trying and on it, it's fine.

If you've seen my posts on Czapek and what they are offering, here and on other boards, I've been a big advocate for the brand, and still am.

At the end of the end of the day.......the watch you get matters. I have a blank space in my watch box for this watch.......I just want to fill that space.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

I haven't asked about a return. The thing is, I like the watch... I wouldn't really want to return it but for this series of unfortunate events. I'm leaning toward asking Czapek just to simply fix the issues so I can enjoy the watch, but that's probably an emotional and inexperienced response... so I'm vetting it here to get good advice from you guys who have had a similar experience.

I'm more curious about the timekeeping, I mean that makes it completely unwearable. was it just magnetized and once demag it was fine?

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I'm more curious about the timekeeping, I mean that makes it completely unwearable. was it just magnetized and once demag it was fine?

Perhaps... But I havent had it fixed yet. I will let you know when I find out.

[magicman]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

These ^^ circumstances just make me shake my head in light of the intervening limited editions that Czapek is able to pump out. Czapek cannot timely satisfy orders despite substantial down payments made in good faith, yet they can dedicate resources to multiple limited editions over the same time period. Sounds like they've intentionally chosen a particular business model...

It sounds like a lot of these limited editions were in the works for years and are just recently coming to fruition, so I see it as honorable that these were completed as agreed to instead of jumping ship to focus on other watches now that they have become newly popular.

If I'm reading the numbers properly (I have no special information...) it sounds like they are pre-selling smaller numbers for delivery in 2025 than their annual production is today (and that number is rising). So the wait should stabilize at some point and then start to decrease.

I hope that Czapek has a plan to expand a bit beyond the Antarctique, as it seems to have become their mainstay line. Kind of putting all the eggs in one basket for now, and as trends change I want them to stay successful and able to adapt and remain in business for a long time to come.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by magicman

It sounds like a lot of these limited editions were in the works for years and are just recently coming to fruition, so I see it as honorable that these were completed as agreed to instead of jumping ship to focus on other watches now that they have become newly popular.

AFAIK, those limited editions weren't pre-sold until after the edition announcement, so buyers then in line for regular editions had to suffer longer wait periods as a result of Czapek's decision made at that time.

Czapek could have slowed down the limited editions due to the regular order backlog, but it's probably a better financial decision for them to keep releasing them: the limited editions sell out quickly while Czapek still holds (and uses) the deposits from those who are still waiting.

How to self-finance a watch business 101.

Good for Czapek, bad for the customer.

[GB-man]

Ice blue split sold on LT recently. Good looking watch.

[usmc_k9_vet]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Ice blue split sold on LT recently. Good looking watch.

Seems like a pretty good price for what you get with that watch too.


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by usmc_k9_vet

Seems like a pretty good price for what you get with that watch too.


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Agreed. Add 10% for buyers fee but still a lot of watch for the money.

[INC]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Ice blue split sold on LT recently. Good looking watch.

I think this looks like co-branding with Tommy Hilfiger

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by INC

I think this looks like co-branding with Tommy Hilfiger

Could just as soon be cobranding with Uncle Sam

[Yobrooks]

Originally Posted by Lukla

Drama continues. I am sorry to hear these problems from high-end luxury product. I've been wondering lately that there is over hype in independents as there are so many popped up in the last 3-4 years. They may be great watchmakers but they don't make watches from start to finish (with some exceptions that makes 10 or so watches a year) and someone not as skilled maybe performing final finish and assembly. Being a new company (like a startup), their customer service may not be suitably staffed either.

Having said that, I still think independent watches are pretty cool and gets my attention over Rolexes.

The high end independent companies are truly worth the wait with respect to the watches. The issue surrounds the back end service, quality control and responsiveness. I have a Grönefeld and Moser which thankfully have been perfect in their execution, build and accuracy. Unfortunately I had the opposite experience with Fpj when my watch would stop randomly. It's was a nightmare getting this taken care of and I ended up selling it for a patek and have never looked back. The moral of the story is.. Back end support is just as vital as the watch itself in order to sustain a brand longterm, imo. Love Czapek watches and will one day own one, but not right now.

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[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

AFAIK, those limited editions weren't pre-sold until after the edition announcement, so buyers then in line for regular editions had to suffer longer wait periods as a result of Czapek's decision made at that time.

Czapek could have slowed down the limited editions due to the regular order backlog, but it's probably a better financial decision for them to keep releasing them: the limited editions sell out quickly while Czapek still holds (and uses) the deposits from those who are still waiting.

How to self-finance a watch business 101.

Good for Czapek, bad for the customer.

Those LEs have been in the making for at least 2-3 years. Way before the hype and the extended order book. Once you agree with a partner for a LE, you cannot really go back on it because they have committed financially.

This has nothing to do with Czapek taking advantage financially. On the contrary, having more LEs actually overburdens their supply chain and lowers their efficiency. If they wanted to really maximize profits, they could just be pumping out Antarctique Glacier Blues for a couple of years.

Deposits are in place to ensure the client is serious about their order. Its not to finance the business. Czapek has never had financing issues even when they sold under 150 watches a year. Their investor portfolio is robust and they can raise money on a moments notice if its really needed. Kind of dishonest of you to suggest they are doing something wrong with deposits. Actually, your whole post is trying to discredit the brand, rather than trying to find the truth.


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[S’portEye]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Those LEs have been in the making for at least 2-3 years. Way before the hype and the extended order book. Once you agree with a partner for a LE, you cannot really go back on it because they have committed financially.

This has nothing to do with Czapek taking advantage financially. On the contrary, having more LEs actually overburdens their supply chain and lowers their efficiency. If they wanted to really maximize profits, they could just be pumping out Antarctique Glacier Blues for a couple of years.

Deposits are in place to ensure the client is serious about their order. Its not to finance the business. Czapek has never had financing issues even when they sold under 150 watches a year. Their investor portfolio is robust and they can raise money on a moments notice if its really needed. Kind of dishonest of you to suggest they are doing something wrong with deposits. Actually, your whole post is trying to discredit the brand, rather than trying to find the truth.


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Unfortunately, you do not have any more insight than he does on the inner workings of this business. You could be wrong, he could be wrong, or, more than likely, y’all are both a little bit right.

[GB-man]

He could well be one of the numerous investors.

[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by S’portEye

Unfortunately, you do not have any more insight than he does on the inner workings of this business. You could be wrong, he could be wrong, or, more than likely, y’all are both a little bit right.

Im a shareholder…


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[rag5178]

Forgive my ignorance, but why is a 30% deposit required purely to confirm interest? I purchased from an AD that needed a much lower deposit for my order. If cash flow has nothing at all to do with the deposits, then surely Czapek could collect a much smaller good faith deposit, right? I’m truly asking, not meaning to say you’re not being truthful.


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[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by rag5178

Forgive my ignorance, but why is a 30% deposit required purely to confirm interest? I purchased from an AD that needed a much lower deposit for my order. If cash flow has nothing at all to do with the deposits, then surely Czapek could collect a much smaller good faith deposit, right? I’m truly asking, not meaning to say you’re not being truthful.


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Its standard for indies. Some other brands require even more.


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[rag5178]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Its standard for indies. Some other brands require even more.


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My question is why that is standard though if not for cash flow purposes?


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Its standard for indies. Some other brands require even more.


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It’s 100% for cash flow purposes lol free loan.

[Heinb]

My experience with Czapek.
I ordered an Antarctique in March of 2022.
I choose a manufacture date of 17 July 2023.
Through the course of the year I made contact a few times about dial color and strap changes on my order. I always got a response. Some times I had to wait a week or 2 and other times the response was the same day or the next.

In June 2022 I canceled my order and asked my deposit back. Why you may ask. Because I got cold feet. Its is a substantial amount of money for me, I earn an average income and buying a 19500 euro watch takes some saving up.

In December 2022 I regretted that I canceled my order. I thought a lot about it and decided to contact Czapek again, and ask them if I can have my order back. I didn’t think I had a chance with the backlog that already existed, but I had nothing to lose in asking.
Tree or four days went by an no response, so I thought that is it. At least I tried.
Seven days later I received an email that informed me that I had my order back, and best of all my manufacture date will stay the same. I paid my deposit, and there I was, waiting and watching videos of Czapek watches again.

June 2023 Pierre contact me to double check the custom engraving I requested.

Early July I contacted Czapek again to check on the progress .My manufacture date being the 17th of July.

Pierre informed me that my watch will be done in September and that I will be contacted early in September to be informed about the ETA. He also mentioned that the watchmakers will be on vacation for three weeks starting on the 21st of July.

Up to date I am really satisfied with my Czapek order experience.

[Marinapark]

The deposits are refundable, so no, its not a very reliable way to finance a business.


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[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

The deposits are refundable, so no, its not a very reliable way to finance a business.

I have no dog in this fight, but a refundable $6k - $10k deposit IS a great way to fund a business, small or large. This is by no means unique to Czapek, and is even employed by some ADs. I had a $6k deposit at an AD for maybe 2 1/2 years for a white Daytona. I theoretically made my way up the list to number 1 where I sat for perhaps a year. They were getting a white and a black Daytona once a month. I finally realized that they just weren't that into me. Let's say they demanded a $6k deposit from all of those on the list. You don't think that would go a long way to financing their business? Multiply $6,000 by "number of people on waitlist" by "number of models with a waitlist" and see if you don't get a big number!

Sure, a deposit is a way to separate the dreamers from the committed buyers, but it is not like having a 30% deposit from every buyer expected for the next two years does not add up to "reliable way to fund a business" too.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Those LEs have been in the making for at least 2-3 years. Way before the hype and the extended order book. Once you agree with a partner for a LE, you cannot really go back on it because they have committed financially.

Sorry, just don't buy it. I think the limited editions *followed* the hype, not preceded it, even at the planning stage, because the many limited editions and higher (?) prices are made feasible by the hype.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

On the contrary, having more LEs actually overburdens their supply chain and lowers their efficiency.

Yes, exactly my point. More limited editions = fewer fulfilled regular orders, including the many regular orders that preceded the limited editions.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

If they wanted to really maximize profits, they could just be pumping out Antarctique Glacier Blues for a couple of years.

This is absolutely not how the watch world works now, and surely you know it. Artificially constrained supply is orchestrated intentionally to keep prices high and maintain demand. Same reason other independents and big players don't oversell their most sought after stainless sports watches. The artificial supply constraint is exactly a profit-maximizing effort.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Kind of dishonest of you to suggest they are doing something wrong with deposits. Actually, your whole post is trying to discredit the brand, rather than trying to find the truth.

Dishonest? Tell me, does Czapek place the deposit funds in a segregated escrow account and/or record them as unusable restricted cash? Are the funds completely unused, whether directly or indirectly as balance sheet support?
I'm not saying that deposits must be handled in any particular way, but if they aren't handled akin to escrowed funds, then they are probably funding the business.

I'm not trying to discredit the brand at all. I'm reacting the the apparent facts and of course drawing inferences based on them. My inferences could be wrong. Your assertions, however, don't seem very obviously correct.

As a shareholder with a vested interest, why should you be trusted?

[Loosetoe]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

The deposits are refundable, so no, its not a very reliable way to finance a business.


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They used to be refundable, but the terms changed on the Czapek site. I think they are still more than fair, bu tthey did build in leeway for themselves for cancellations.

CANCELLATION

Should you change your mind and cancel your order within 14 days, we will refund the full amount.
If you decide to cancel your order later, part of your deposit will no longer be refundable according to the following scale:

After 14 days, your deposit minus 10% and inherent banking fees is refunded.
6 months before your manufacturing date: 50% of your deposit minus inherent banking fees is refunded.
3 months before your manufacturing date: your deposit is forfeited.

To cancel your order, you must contact us at customercare@czapek.com

[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Sorry, just don't buy it. I think the limited editions *followed* the hype, not preceded it, even at the planning stage, because the many limited editions and higher (?) prices are made feasible by the hype.



Yes, exactly my point. More limited editions = fewer fulfilled regular orders, including the many regular orders that preceded the limited editions.



This is absolutely not how the watch world works now, and surely you know it. Artificially constrained supply is orchestrated intentionally to keep prices high and maintain demand. Same reason other independents and big players don't oversell their most sought after stainless sports watches. The artificial supply constraint is exactly a profit-maximizing effort.



Dishonest? Tell me, does Czapek place the deposit funds in a segregated escrow account and/or record them as unusable restricted cash? Are the funds completely unused, whether directly or indirectly as balance sheet support?
I'm not saying that deposits must be handled in any particular way, but if they aren't handled akin to escrowed funds, then they are probably funding the business.

I'm not trying to discredit the brand at all. I'm reacting the the apparent facts and of course drawing inferences based on them. My inferences could be wrong. Your assertions, however, don't seem very obviously correct.

As a shareholder with a vested interest, why should you be trusted?

By your 1st statement alone you clearly dont know how the watch world works so no need for extended discussions. Making an LE from inception, design, procurement, 1st prototype, debugging, more prototyping etc does not take weeks or months but years. The Antarctique was in development since 2015. You can assume im biased but you cant argue that as an insider, i know far more than you do.


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[dpap]

I have had only a positive experience with czapek. At some point in 2021 I placed a deposit for a dark blue antartique. About a year later, when the smaller models were released, I asked if they could switch my order to a salmon S. They agreed without any fuss. A few weeks ago I finally received my watch and I love it. I think the smaller model fits my wrist perfectly. My only gripe is that the tiny bracelet screws are easy to lose but that’s probably on me.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

By your 1st statement alone you clearly dont know how the watch world works so no need for extended discussions. Making an LE from inception, design, procurement, 1st prototype, debugging, more prototyping etc does not take weeks or months but years. The Antarctique was in development since 2015. You can assume im biased but you cant argue that as an insider, i know far more than you do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really? A special dial takes not weeks or months, but years? Give me a break!

I don't have to assume you're biased when it's self-evident from this nonsense. And your shot at me looks like a weak attempt to avoid responding to my other points. How convenient for you yet pathetically transparent.

But you're right. No need to continue to the discussion, and I truly hold no axe to grind against Czapek. I wish them the best. They obviously have many satisfied customers; others, not so much.