The Whisky Thread

[logo]

Originally Posted by Mendota

What do you guys recommend for some good ryes to experiment with? I really enjoyed Bulleit and that seems to be the introductory bottle to get started. There are so many of them on the shelf that it's hard to even venture a guess as to what to pick. A lot of the distillers whose bourbons and whiskeys I like also make rye. Would those be good options to start with?

For example, everyone from Jim Beam to Jack Daniels, Heaven Hill, Michter's, Wild Turkey, Basil Hayden, etc. all make ryes. Then there's higher end Willett or Whistle Pig and offerings like that.

I saw an interesting one from High West called Double Rye? They take a 2 year old and blend it with a 16 year old that has a higher corn mash bill to smoothen it out.

I just picked up a Michters 10 year (haven’t cracked it open yet), but have had their other ryes and they are really good.

I LOVE High West Rendezvous Rye. Not too expensive, but miles better than their Double Rye IMO. Lots of people say it was better a few years ago before they started using more of their own blend, but even so I still enjoy the new stuff. My current bottle is a 19 batch I think. Also note this is the same juice used to make Midwinter Nights Dram (it’s just aged in port barrels after).

[TNT009]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PeqFB]

Originally Posted by TNT009

Haven't seen or read a bad review on that sucka yet!!!!

I was fortunate enough to get this, and like you I’ve only heard high marks from this. Can’t wait to crack this one open.

[FLGatorM5]

This thread clearly needs to be brought back to earth for those of us lesser folk.

[thedak]

Originally Posted by Mendota

What do you guys recommend for some good ryes to experiment with?

Michters Sib Rye - $42

Old Forrester 100 Proof Rye - $35

Angels Envy Rye - $94

Woodford Rye - $37

[ashbaug2]

Originally Posted by Mendota

What do you guys recommend for some good ryes to experiment with? I really enjoyed Bulleit and that seems to be the introductory bottle to get started. There are so many of them on the shelf that it's hard to even venture a guess as to what to pick. A lot of the distillers whose bourbons and whiskeys I like also make rye. Would those be good options to start with?

For example, everyone from Jim Beam to Jack Daniels, Heaven Hill, Michter's, Wild Turkey, Basil Hayden, etc. all make ryes. Then there's higher end Willett or Whistle Pig and offerings like that.

I saw an interesting one from High West called Double Rye? They take a 2 year old and blend it with a 16 year old that has a higher corn mash bill to smoothen it out.

I’m quite partial to Wild Turkey 101 Rye, and enjoy Jack Daniels Rye. If you want something a little higher proof, Pikesville is very good. Also, if you can find it (not sure which area you’re in) try Frey Ranch Rye


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TexasRedNeck]

133 proof single barrel Jack. Good everyday drink.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by FLGatorM5

This thread clearly needs to be brought back to earth for those of us lesser folk.

That's a great bottled in bond. I have a 1.75L of that right now. I like the black but this is much better.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by thedak

Michters Sib Rye - $42



Old Forrester 100 Proof Rye - $35



Angels Envy Rye - $94



Woodford Rye - $37

Great list. I'll start with these.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by ashbaug2

I’m quite partial to Wild Turkey 101 Rye, and enjoy Jack Daniels Rye. If you want something a little higher proof, Pikesville is very good. Also, if you can find it (not sure which area you’re in) try Frey Ranch Rye


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll try those too!

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[jsavoie88]

Originally Posted by thedak

Michters Sib Rye - $42

Old Forrester 100 Proof Rye - $35

Angels Envy Rye - $94

Woodford Rye - $37

I’d add a couple more to that list:

Rare Breed Rye - $60
Elijah Craig Rye - $35
Willett Rye - $75
Restoration Rye - $60


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

I had some of my Bell Meade last night. Very good.

Today I am stopping in at one of my local places that's running a big holiday sale to pick up some stuff for the holidays and for gifts.

They have Knob Creek Rye at $22.97

George Dickel Rye at $19.97

Redemption Rye at $19.97

Whistle Pig 6 year Piggy Back Rye $39.97

Whistle Pig 10 year Straight Rye $59.97

Out of those, which would be good ones?

I was thinking of getting two of the Knob Creek and giving one/keeping the other, then maybe trying the Redemption?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Treble Treble]

I suggest the thread name be changed to the Whisky and Whiskey thread, both amazing in their own right but not the same thing..sorry , whisky comes from Scotland everything else is Whiskey including the Irish and Japanese versions of the grain…that said this is one of my favourite threads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by Treble Treble

I suggest the thread name be changed to the Whisky and Whiskey thread, both amazing in their own right but not the same thing..sorry , whisky comes from Scotland everything else is Whiskey including the Irish and Japanese versions of the grain…that said this is one of my favourite threads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Samuels family that produces Maker's Mark (American bourbon distillery) originally chose to use the spelling "whisky" to honor their family's Scotch/Irish heritage.

https://vinepair.com/articles/makers...isky-spelling/

[Treble Treble]

Thanks Mendota, could be a nice debate this one..let’s see who nails their colours to the mast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jsavoie88]

Originally Posted by Bourbon

Here’s my 5 minute-stab at understanding Willett. Please note there are always going to be some “bottles” or “barrels” that fall outside these ranges and ideas. But generally… 90% of what I say is accurate.

There are 3 generations Willett. We will focus on the third generation, which is all about the purple tops that people go crazy over these days.

Generation 1 “old Willett from the 1930’s through the 1970’s” before they switched to producing ethanol gas. Which, shut down in the 1980’s and was dormant for about 25 years”.
Generation 2 “kinda-new Willett that was re-started by Even Kulsveen (married into the Willett family) in the mid 80’s and was named “Kentucky Bourbon Distillers” (KBD)” where they sourced a bunch of bourbon and released it as an independent bottler.
Generation 3 “New Willett is know as the 2012+ era where they began distilling again. Run by Even’s son Drew. To where, in early 2022 their own distillate will reach 10yrs in age. This is the era I am going to write about.

Generation 3 is also complex. Because, when they began distilling, they also began sourcing whiskey (new and aged) from other distilleries. People get confused when they see an 8yr Willett for sale today. Because they don’t know if it’s sourced OR their own distillate.

Let’s dig into Generation 3. First, the sourced stuff. Back in 2012 they began releasing sourced whiskey that was anywhere between 4-23 years old. Most of these had wax tops. And, in 2012/13 there were some released in cognac (shaped) bottles. It’s safe to say that Willett gained huge popularity early on in the resurgence of the bourbon craze (2013-14) due to having stellar (and aged) products. When I say this I am talking about the “B Barrels” and “C barrels”. Things like B58, C10, C67A, and so on. These (and others that aren’t B/C barrels) are noted as “epic Willetts”. Beyond that (call it 2013-2017 as concentration point) they released a bevy of 9-14 year old sourced barrels that were also known as “epic” because of their profile. And, it’s rumored that they are Brown Forman (and others) in 2 specific barrel-number-runs. It’s quite common for Willett nerds to talk about the 7xx-8xx and 13xx-14xx runs (that are over 122 proof) to be some of the best whiskey on earth. To boil that down further, a Willett nerd may say “808 (126.6 proof) is far superior to 702 (120.8 proof)” due to profile AND assuming the two are different distillates. That nerd may assume that 808 is BF, and that 702 is HH. No one knows for sure (Drew does). But, that’s the general gist of how people “value” these bottles. To boil it down further. 808 may sell for 3K on secondary whereas 702 may sell for 1.5K on secondary because the community deems it “that much better”. But, it’s all about perspective, because... 702 is probably better than 95% of whiskeys out there. In the past 4 years (call it 2017-present) Willett was releasing 2 primary ranges of sourced stuff. There were things that were 7 years old (that are now 11yrs). And, there were 14 year old things that are now 18/19 years old). Many newer folks who want to jump down the “sourced Willett rabbit hole” want to get into “THE BEST” and focus on B/C barrels AND the 7xx-8xx/13xx-14xx that are above the proof that the community deems “epic”. Additionally, there is a WHOLE OTHER story about “epic Willett ryes” (20+ years in age, typically 22-24) like “Doug’s green Ink”, “Black ink”, Bitter Truth, Red Hook rye, rathskeller rye, and a host of others that fetch 20-40K per bottle. It’s wild.

Beyond their sourced stuff, Willett began releasing their 4 year old distillate in 2016. And, their distillate is approaching 10 years old (Q1 of 2022). Their own distillate is super high proof in some cases (130-140 proof) and absolutely a spice-forward oil-bomb. Early on, when their distillate was reaching about 6-7 years old (2018-ish) there was a run of 19x-20x that caught fire on secondary values. Their own distillate has really grown in profile and popularity as it gets to 6-7-8 years old. Below is the Willett distillate mashbill breakdown. I tend to learn towards the OG mashbill. As of today, it can be somewhat confusing because Willett releases both sourced and primary distillate. Willett releases sourced bourbon in that 16-19yr range. Willett releases their own distillate in a 6-8 year range (soon 9, then 10 next year).



High Corn Bourbon (79/7/14 usually goes in at 103)
Original Bourbon (72/13/15 usually goes in at 125)
Wheated Bourbon (65/20/15 usually goes in at 115)
High Rye Bourbon (52/38/10 usually goes in at 125)
High Rye Rye (74/11/15 usually goes in at 110)
Low Rye Rye (51/34/15 usually goes in at 110)

9x-12x are low rye rye
18x-20x are original mashbill
40x are original mashbill
42x are low rye rye
60x-63x are low rye rye
65x-72x are high corn, low entry proof
98x is high rye rye
14xx are low rye rye
19xx-21xx are high corn high entry proof
22xx-24xx are high rye rye
26xx are original mashbill
27xx-28xx are high rye bourbon
30xx-31xx are original mashbill bourbon
32xx-33xx are wheated mashbill bourbon
36xx are high rye rye
42xx are original mashbill bourbon
47xx-48xx are high rye bourbon
52xx are high corn, high entry bourbon
60xx are high rye rye
11243 is an experimental wheater

Would love to hear your opinion regarding the Willett Wolves collaboration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FLGatorM5]

Originally Posted by Mendota

I had some of my Bell Meade last night. Very good.

Today I am stopping in at one of my local places that's running a big holiday sale to pick up some stuff for the holidays and for gifts.

They have Knob Creek Rye at $22.97

George Dickel Rye at $19.97

Redemption Rye at $19.97

Whistle Pig 6 year Piggy Back Rye $39.97

Whistle Pig 10 year Straight Rye $59.97

Out of those, which would be good ones?

I was thinking of getting two of the Knob Creek and giving one/keeping the other, then maybe trying the Redemption?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Can’t comment on the others, but I don’t think you will be disappointed with KC @ $23. My experience is that it is “less rye” than others so it makes for a nice drink without a wintergreen branch hitting you in the face.
Find a KC SB Rye or barrel pick and I’ll take those home all day long for <$40.

I only have a 12yr Pig but my understanding is that there are better picks for less $.

[TNT009]

Sherry Bomb


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by jsavoie88

Would love to hear your opinion regarding the Willett Wolves collaboration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What’s this collaboration of which you speak?


Never mind just read about it. I’d like to find out some more about that. I need to do some snooping around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TNT009]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

So this sucks. One of the little local shops that I have been trying to work with just called me and said they received a bottle of Blanton's but because of all the demand, they are selling it for $150. He said he has a whole line of people waiting to get it at $150 and if I were to go online it would be even more, so basically I can take it or leave it. I didn't even bother calling him back.

I guess I am not surprised, but I am a little miffed that he's effectively doing exactly what Buffalo Trace said they are trying to stop. They literally issued a press release before Covid saying they are trying to stop liquor stores from buying their products at wholesale and then selling it out the back door at 2x or 3x retail prices just because they can.

I would never pay that much for this, anyway. For that price point there are much better options out there.

[jsavoie88]

Originally Posted by airchitect

What’s this collaboration of which you speak?


Never mind just read about it. I’d like to find out some more about that. I need to do some snooping around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I picked it up on a whim. It’s the first batch, so might be collectible one day. And I love Willett. So there’s that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sgarrity]

Originally Posted by Mendota

.....I would never pay that much for this, anyway. For that price point there are much better options out there.

I just paid that for a bottle of Blanton's. The main place I go has 100 people in line for a bottle at retail. That's insane!

What I don't understand is why these distilleries aren't raising their prices.....

[dkg1616]

Broke into 2019 GTS (don’t be a proof hater) tonight followed by a Stagg jr Store pick. Finishing off with a 12 year F6 Russell’s reserve. Cheers all

[Old Farmer]

[II just purchased a bottle of Macalan 18 YO as O do every year, getting to be very expensive now,[/I]

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

I just paid that for a bottle of Blanton's. The main place I go has 100 people in line for a bottle at retail. That's insane!



What I don't understand is why these distilleries aren't raising their prices.....

Because pricing is never a good variable to mess with. It's not worth that price and they know it. It would be devastating to their businesses long term because once all the man-bun wearing millennial hipsters move on from bourbon to the next spirit, prices will come back to Earth and then the distilleries would be stuck with average quality product set at astronomical prices. It would be a no-brainer for customers to simply buy the bottle next to it at the same price that's actually worth that.

Besides, Buffalo Trace said in their press release that they were increasing production to try to meet demand and stop this nonsense. They added a new rickhouse and at the time of printing they had already distilled and put all of that extra juice into the barrels for aging. It takes years of aging though, so we can't expect any of those additional bottles to hit the market for several more years.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

I just paid that for a bottle of Blanton's. The main place I go has 100 people in line for a bottle at retail. That's insane!

What I don't understand is why these distilleries aren't raising their prices.....

Because those prices are only sustainable for a small portion of the population and just like every other boom (other bourbon, tequila, vodka….) it will end….. well with the widespread growth of the middle class worldwide maybe it just slows down a bit, but it will slow and they know it…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sgarrity]

Originally Posted by airchitect

Because those prices are only sustainable for a small portion of the population and just like every other boom (other bourbon, tequila, vodka….) it will end….. well with the widespread growth of the middle class worldwide maybe it just slows down a bit, but it will slow and they know it…..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're still leaving money on the table. LOTS of it!

What's retail for Blanton's? $60 a bottle? Which means they're selling it to distributors for what? $30-40 a bottle? You're telling me that this market can't handle a $10-20 a bottle increase?

This is an aged product with high demand and a finite supply.

[airchitect]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

They're still leaving money on the table. LOTS of it!

What's retail for Blanton's? $60 a bottle? Which means they're selling it to distributors for what? $30-40 a bottle? You're telling me that this market can't handle a $10-20 a bottle increase?

This is an aged product with high demand and a finite supply.

Oh they prob could but the impact wouldn’t simply be higher profits. Most of the distillers are unionized meaning increased profit equals increased demand from the workforce for their cut etc etc…. But 10-20 per bottle is a 16.5-33% increase…. That’s pretty hefty percentage wise….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by sgarrity

They're still leaving money on the table. LOTS of it!

What's retail for Blanton's? $60 a bottle? Which means they're selling it to distributors for what? $30-40 a bottle? You're telling me that this market can't handle a $10-20 a bottle increase?

This is an aged product with high demand and a finite supply.

They decided to address this with more supply. They want more people to be able to buy and enjoy their products while keeping the price point the same.

Google the Buffalo Trace press release and you can read all about their thoughts on the current market and what they decided to do about it as a business with their Blanton's product, specifically. They were very transparent and touched on everything that's going on.

If you are a product manager for a major corporation and you personally disagree with their decision on how to market their product, please feel free to write, call, or email them with your suggestions. Over at Maker's Mark, Bill Samuels will actually personally respond to you.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk