Here today...gone tomorrow...

[Blansky]

When I started as a professional photographer back in the middle 1970s, obviously we all used film to take our pictures. But a number of years later the switch was made to digital recording of the images instead of a physical record such as film.

Amongst pros, one of the things that came up, was that soon not only our files from a few years ago could disappear on a crashed hard drive, but that there would not be a hidden long forgotten record of the billions of pictures that ordinary people had taken, and later found in basements and attics of recently deceased parents, for instance. The incredible archive of a family history.

This archive of long past memories would disappear as the hard drives of computers and old phones would eventually crash leaving nothing. So we paranoid professionals soon were backing up our thousands of images on various drives. (I used 5) Unfortunately amateur photographers were not doing the same thing.

A number of years ago a guy that was scouring auctions at storage facilities accidentally discovered an incredible find of thousands of pictures taken by a long forgotten Nanny. That story turned into a move/documentary called FINDING VIVIAN MAIER. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ury-180984665/

https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Vivia.../dp/B00LKURN1I

Had she shot her work on digital it would have undoubtedly disappeared into the ether.


This morning I read about how we are also losing our digital history from the internet, as past websites and pages are also disappearing.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...e-the-internet

[White Collar Boy]

Interesting topic and a reminder to print the good photos.

Re. losing online histories, I think it’s sad for writers and artists who might not have their work printed. Less sad for mediocre bands and teenage narcissists when a website like MySpace (in 2019) accidentally deletes everything uploaded prior to 2016… Some day, the YouTube video of MrBeast counting to 100,000 will be gone also. Good riddance to that!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by White Collar Boy

Interesting topic and a reminder to print the good photos.

Re. losing online histories, I think it’s sad for writers and artists who might not have their work printed. Less sad for mediocre bands and teenage narcissists when a website like MySpace (in 2019) accidentally deletes everything uploaded prior to 2016… Some day, the YouTube video of MrBeast counting to 100,000 will be gone also. Good riddance to that!

Couldn’t agree more Matt

Right now, we are in the process of printing photos of our favourite food moments. We are framing these and making a collage on our kitchen wall.

[Colorado_kid]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this.


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[Blansky]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Couldn’t agree more Matt

Right now, we are in the process of printing photos of our favourite food moments. We are framing these and making a collage on our kitchen wall.

Sounds like a good move.

But prints from film AND digital media, can deteriorate over time, which is why some of the most iconic images from the past are not necessarily the print, but access to the negative to make new prints.

The trick to this archival thing, is to have AND maintain backups of the originals even as the media changes over time. For instance floppy discs and DVDs moved to current media, etc.

The problem is it takes work to maintain, which is why so much of it will be lost, over the years/generations.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Sounds like a good move.

But prints from film AND digital media, can deteriorate over time, which is why some of the most iconic images from the past are not necessarily the print, but access to the negative to make new prints.

The trick to this archival thing, is to have AND maintain backups of the originals even as the media changes over time. For instance floppy discs and DVDs moved to current media, etc.

The problem is it takes work to maintain, which is why so much of it will be lost, over the years/generations.

Didn’t really think of how to preserve these memories beyond a nuclear holocaust

Point taken my friend. There is also something lovely about old film, particularly those projectors we used in grade school. The sound was also pretty cool


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[Stan Cooper]

I have several boxes of 35mm negative strips that would take weeks to look at frame by frame for those I'd like to digitize or print. There must be some way to scan through these strips to see what's on them without holding the up to a light and viewing them with a magnifying glass. Can anyone recommend an easier/faster way to see what's on them?

[subtona]

I really enjoy Vivian Maiers work.

Had a chance to see a galery exhibit about 5 years ago in los angeles

Reminds some of HCB- Henri Cartier Bressen

Agree with your concern digital data is susceptible to catastrophic loss.

Also of concern is the software used to access these files. I have a few files that can no longer be opened because the software doesn’t exist. .
at times a revolutionary idea comes along and the industry standard evaporates.
If your data software is no longer supported that becomes another way it can be lost.


I have been very diligent over the years trying to insure my data is backed up. Some years ago a software update compromised my data… after testing things for a week I then wrote over my backups (x3). The day after that I discovered missing data, followed by additional data loss discovered over the next few weeks.

Turned out The software update ran into a conflict and resolved it by backdating everything 6 months. At a glance it all looked good. I lost some valuable material and at that time acknowledged even with my determined efforts, sh&t happens

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

I have several boxes of 35mm negative strips that would take weeks to look at frame by frame for those I'd like to digitize or print. There must be some way to scan through these strips to see what's on them without holding the up to a light and viewing them with a magnifying glass. Can anyone recommend an easier/faster way to see what's on them?

About ten years ago I sent all my negatives and prints to a company in Chicago that digitized everything. IIRC, there were quite a few companies at the time that provided this service. Once the entire library was built I edited the keepers from the scrap and organized the digital library.

You should be able to find a service near any large city, I would think.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by subtona

I really enjoy Vivian Maiers work.

Had a chance to see a galery exhibit about 5 years ago in los angeles

Reminds some of HCB- Henri Cartier Bressen

Agee. It's pretty amazing work, and the story behind it is absolutely fascinating.

Not just the discovery of her work but the detective story trying to figure out who the hell she was......someone who could have made a fortune as a photographer but died unknown and penniless.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Maleg

About ten years ago I sent all my negatives and prints to a company in Chicago that digitized everything. IIRC, there were quite a few companies at the time that provided this service. Once the entire library was built I edited the keepers from the scrap and organized the digital library.

You should be able to find a service near any large city, I would think.

If you wanted to go through the trouble, there are scanners that can do a sheet at a time as well.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by subtona

Also of concern is the software used to access these files. I have a few files that can no longer be opened because the software doesn’t exist. .
at times a revolutionary idea comes along and the industry standard evaporates.
If your data software is no longer supported that becomes another way it can be lost.


I have been very diligent over the years trying to insure my data is backed up. Some years ago a software update compromised my data… after testing things for a week I then wrote over my backups (x3). The day after that I discovered missing data, followed by additional data loss discovered over the next few weeks.

Turned out The software update ran into a conflict and resolved it by backdating everything 6 months. At a glance it all looked good. I lost some valuable material and at that time acknowledged even with my determined efforts, sh&t happens

Yup. Murph’s Law. Whatever can go wrong will….

I’ve always had multiple backups, some offsite as well. But still no guarantees.

But even in the film days, you could lose stuff, have a fire or flood or whatever.

I remember the instance where I was shooting weddings in the 70s and the processing lab would pickup our film to be processed, and the guy/driver would run into your studio grab the bag and run back to his car and on to the next place.

It was winter and he’d leave his car running and on that particular Monday, someone jumped into his car and took off. With the work of a number of studios in the car. A number of studios lost around 12 weddings they’d shot on the previous Saturday. Gone. Luckily I wasn’t one of them.

Some things you can’t control but others you try to cover your bases.

[AzPaul]

Had some prints made from digital images just yesterday. They weren't terrible but nowhere near as sharp as the prints I used to get from negatives.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by AzPaul

Had some prints made from digital images just yesterday. They weren't terrible but nowhere near as sharp as the prints I used to get from negatives.

There is a lot that goes into getting good prints from digital files.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Maleg

There is a lot that goes into getting good prints from digital files.

Yup.

Like a negative, a raw digital file is just a recording of the possibilities that are available to the photographer to manipulate. But almost always it needs some sharpening.

If you shoot in JPEG, then the camera is making the decisions and choices for you and tossing away other possibilities.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yup.

Like a negative, a raw digital file is just a recording of the possibilities that are available to the photographer to manipulate. But almost always it needs some sharpening.

If you shoot in JPEG, then the camera is making the decisions and choices for you and tossing away other possibilities.

Exactly. And the raw file needs to be edited on a decent quality calibrated monitor.

[Blansky]

Actually the possibilities were there with film as well only most people didn't know how or didn't have access to the means of manipulation.

Ansel Adams....Moonlight Hernandez.

[Speedbird-1]

I've heard it said that more digital photo's are taken, every day, than were ever, taken on film.

Given that, it seems most snaps these days are the ubiquitous, 'selfies', my response to the great loss of digital pix, would be...."meeah, no great loss really.

The creators of some of the oldest known, 'man-made' images, made by Troglodyti in prehistoric caves, that have survived the millennia would, I think scorn the very fleeting nature of the imagery, we now worship.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Actually the possibilities were there with film as well only most people didn't know how or didn't have access to the means of manipulation.

Ansel Adams....Moonlight Hernandez.

I still have my dark room equipment. I haven't used it in years.

[East Bay Rider]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

I've heard it said that more digital photo's are taken, every day, than were ever, taken on film.

Given that, it seems most snaps these days are the ubiquitous, 'selfies', my response to the great loss of digital pix, would be...."meeah, no great loss really....

In my house it's the dog and cat.

[Talon84]

I do a photo book every couple of years. Great to have on the bookcase to thumb through and safe from digital wipeout.

https://www.bobbooks.co.uk/

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Talon84

I do a photo book every couple of years. Great to have on the bookcase to thumb through and safe from digital wipeout.

https://www.bobbooks.co.uk/

Those photobooks are great.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Maleg

I still have my dark room equipment. I haven't used it in years.

I spent sooooo many hours in the darkroom that I was pretty happy when I finally made the switch to digital.

I had a color darkroom first for about 10 years, then later on when I only shot black and white, just that one.

Sold all my darkroom stuff soon after I could trust digital/inkjet to be archival.

[gnuyork]

I still shoot and develop film (and scan). It's a hobby though. I do actually have 4 enlargers - 35mm, MF, and 2 LF. The last 3 were given to me (one is a Leitz focomat II) and I've never used them. I'd love to get back to making silver prints. One day.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

I still shoot and develop film (and scan). It's a hobby though. I do actually have 4 enlargers - 35mm, MF, and 2 LF. The last 3 were given to me (one is a Leitz focomat II) and I've never used them. I'd love to get back to making silver prints. One day.

When I was converting over to digital, and using an Epson 24 inch printer I kept doing silver prints until I mastered the ability to not be able to see the difference between silver prints and inkjet prints from about 3 feet away. (My standard viewing distance for a 16x20 and larger print. Most of what I printed was 24 x whatever which has a viewing distance of maybe 5-6 feet.

That was my criteria at the time to make the switch. I know Greg Gorman was saying at the time that his prints you could not tell the difference between a silver print and his inkjet stuff. Obviously holding it in your hand you can tell the difference between the surface of a silver vs inkjet but viewing from a small distance you couldn't.

I know some people love darkroom work but it was never what I really wanted to do, it was just what I had to do to get the results I wanted. I hated using labs. So I did my own darkroom work for about 16 years.

[scarlet knight]

I took a photography course in high school in the BC era. We developed film. We have shoeboxes filled with printed pictures. Don’t look at it much.would not throw them out.

[Old Expat Beast]

I remember reading articles warning about likely future lost digital content 20+ years ago. It's not just photos, either. I spent several months on a very remote South Atlantic island in the late 1990s and foolishly kept all my notes and diaries on one floppy disc, which died after a couple of years. All gone. All I have left of those times is a couple of magazine articles I wrote when I got back. Many dozens of my articles from the mid 90s to mid 00s were lost in a similar way, or when laptops died. Accompanying photos, too. I occasionally come across one online, though.

[77T]

My thought is all data are fleeting.

I began in the '60's, 35mm - then through college, then teaching darkroom, then to medium format.

Always kept the contact sheets and the negatives in Mylar with a filing system so never a problem finding things.

Sold all the cameras, enlargers, tanks trays and the rest, also the light tables and scanners in the late '90's. I stuck with Nikon and Beseler products so wasn't hurt by selling.

Then did it all over again with video...
Beta, then VHS, then backed it all up, then did DVD backups.

Here's the thing - when I'm taking the eternal celestial dirt nap, and the kids are my age, this media will be meaningless to the 3rd gen down the line.

If you are conservation minded then build a website of your own, pay for a production server and a backup server using a media bin with AWS and backed up on a Google site.


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[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by Blansky

When I was converting over to digital, and using an Epson 24 inch printer I kept doing silver prints until I mastered the ability to not be able to see the difference between silver prints and inkjet prints from about 3 feet away. (My standard viewing distance for a 16x20 and larger print. Most of what I printed was 24 x whatever which has a viewing distance of maybe 5-6 feet.

That was my criteria at the time to make the switch. I know Greg Gorman was saying at the time that his prints you could not tell the difference between a silver print and his inkjet stuff. Obviously holding it in your hand you can tell the difference between the surface of a silver vs inkjet but viewing from a small distance you couldn't.

I know some people love darkroom work but it was never what I really wanted to do, it was just what I had to do to get the results I wanted. I hated using labs. So I did my own darkroom work for about 16 years.

Yes definitely ink jet printing is pretty great now (and has been for a while) especially with the Baryta fine art papers . I started experimenting with the MIS ink tone system and custom curves in the early days when inkjet just couldn't do Black and white, but now it's pretty amazing. I've since had a few Epsons 2880, R2400 and now the P800 (which is fantastic). I also have a 44" Canon Prograf, that's now a motorcycle sized paperweight. I didn't use it enough and something went wrong with it mechanically, and overheat error of some sort, and a tech said the repair estimate was going to cost nearly what I paid for the printer (I got it on some sort of rebate deal)... so it now sits.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Those photobooks are great.

They really are!

Completely customisable and really good quality. Give my parents one as a Xmas present every year. Nice keep sake for them