Thinking about vintage, what things to check for?

[watchstuff]

Hi All,

Am thinking about going down the vintage route. I know I will first "buy the seller", but any advice on what questions to ask of the watch, especially vintage. Things that come to mind include:
Any box or papers with the watch - unlikely?
Serial number still present
Is the dial original or has it been repainted
Original bracelet
Does it keep to time

Any advice appreciated.

[DrLindaPhD]

Sounds good to me. For me, when I buy a vintage Rolex (or Rolex Tudor) I have to "fall for" the look. That's just me. It speaks to me. I don't like a lot of looks and wouldn't wear one if someone gave it to me for free. I want to wear the ones I am attracted to or that make me get lost in their potential history. So, for me the first item on my list is DO I LOVE IT?

I like to make sure everything is original
I like to make sure it works
I like to get it for a great price
I

[DrLindaPhD]

Sounds good to me. For me, when I buy a vintage Rolex (or Rolex Tudor) I have to "fall for" the look. That's just me. It speaks to me. I don't like a lot of looks and wouldn't wear one if someone gave it to me for free. I want to wear the ones I am attracted to or that make me get lost in their potential history. So, for me the first item on my list is DO I LOVE IT?

I like to make sure everything is original
I like to make sure it works
I like to get it for a great price

[Jollyclub]

Originally Posted by DrLindaPhD

DO I LOVE IT?

This is what always makes me pull the trigger.

Do lots of homework too.

There are so many pitfalls out there, but with a bit of research you can lessen the risk.

Dial archive on VRF will turn you into a 'spot the difference' champion in no time.

Don't rush.

Grail isn't singular.

[joe100]

Search search and search. Once you find the model you like, research it here, read all you can and become an expert. This takes time and patience. This way you will be able to spot a good one or more importantly a bad one.

Don't be one of those guys who buys something, posts a pic here and finds out its completely unoriginal.

Vigilance!

[C6MMVI]

For me it's a balance between heart and head.

Find the watch that appeals to your soul and do as much research on it that you can possibly do to avoid making a costly mistake.

Don't find a watch and let emotions take over and take a back seat to common sense.
I've collected vintage watches for quite a few years but never Rolex.
So when I decided I wanted a vintage Submariner, this forum was my college that I attended for quite a few months before feeling confident enough to pull the trigger.

There are quite a lot of knowledgeable people here that are willing to share.

If you're looking for a Rolex, Breitling, Omega, or any other watch brand listed on this forum, this is a great place to be.

[Pete17]

Pick a model to hunt down....and do your research.

and then do some more research.

Use the search function here and elsewhere.

And be patient! So many people rush in and get burnt.

[Goiguidoc]

I would chose a vintage model with original or service papers.
Also, avoid over polishing.
Beware of Frankenwatches.

[Pete17]

Imho papers are over rated. Easily faked and can't be worn. Especially of late...
Get the best WATCH you can afford. No point buying a crappy watch with full B & P.

Honestly, the current fad of unpolished cases is rubbish. We are talking about 40yr old watches! They are not mint. Not even close to it.
Thats why we like them!
EVENLY polished cases and lugs are a better and more realistic fund.

The heart of the watch is in the dial.
If you like NOS watches buy a new one from an AD.

Sorry for the rant...



Sent from my Droid.

[springer]

Originally Posted by watchstuff

Hi All,

Am thinking about going down the vintage route. I know I will first "buy the seller", but any advice on what questions to ask of the watch, especially vintage. Things that come to mind include:
Any box or papers with the watch - unlikely?
Serial number still present
Is the dial original or has it been repainted
Original bracelet
Does it keep to time

Any advice appreciated.

That is a good start. As a novice, you might want to get some photos and post them here, along with the answers to your questions, then others here will be able to help you in your evaluation. This seems to work for others here on TRF.

[RACER_X]

?, will a RSC service a vintage watch?

will they warranty it?

[vintagewaferthin]

Originally Posted by RACER_X

?, will a RSC service a vintage watch?

will they warranty it?

yes they will service vintage watches, however they do have an age cut off age as to what they will service(i am not sure what that cut off age is). also dont send your vintage rolex to a rsc if you dont want any exterior parts changed, such as dial, hands bezel, etc.

[Beaumont Miller II]

I have been buying and collecting watches for quite awhile now, and I still learn something from time to time when I make a purchase. Here are some questions that I would ask and also some things to keep in mind when considering a purchase.

1. Sure do your homework on a particular reference as people have suggested. After all, its your money. You need to make sure you spend it wisely. But, I can't overemphasize enough what Springer said. Let those on TRF help you once you have narrowed down your selection to a few examples. It's unlikely that you could spend a hours a day staring at vintage dials like some on this forum do. Many on this forum will help you on your vintage "journey", and thats one of the things that makes this forum great.

2. You will also need to set a budget for yourself. The budget will also in a way determine the condition and level of "correctness" of the watch you will be buying. I try to stay within my budget, however I have been known to "stray" from the budget when circumstances dictate and something special is available.

3. Consider for yourself how you intend to wear the watch. If it is going to be a daily wearer for instance, I would not be as worried about buying a watch with little dings and scuffs on the case because after six to eight months into ownership you will likely have accumulated some of those on your own. If it is going to be worn just on the weekends or less, your desire for the condition might change.

4. Trust in the dealer is one of the most important aspects of this hobby. High pressure sales tactics and evasive answers are a red flag.

5. You have to remember that dealers are not the original owners of a watch and consequently are answering some of the questions to the best of their knowledge. When I use the term original, I mean it came from Rolex that way when new. This is different than authentic which to me means that Rolex made the part. Some people will try to use the terms interchangeably...be careful. Unless the person selling you the watch is the original owner, it is very difficult for them to say with 100% certainty that it is all original with no parts changed out. Originality is important, but perhaps more important is whether the watch is all period correct. By this I mean that the dial is correct for the serial number on the case, that the hands and bezel and insert are correct for the time period, and that the bracelet is correct as well. An early serial 1675 GMT with a later dial should be priced differently than one with the correct dial if condition is the same. The degree to which a person desires the watch to be all period correct is a personal preference. That is one reason watches are priced differently. Just make sure you are getting what you are paying for.

6. Once you have determined whether the watch meets your desire for the level of correctness, a realistic evaluation of the condition needs to be done. If you are not going to be handling the watch personally prior to purchase, its important to look at several pictures from different angles to evaluate the condition. It drives me crazy when I see multiple pics from the same angle only a little bit closer...not helpful. Start with the dial and make sure there is no flaking lume plots which may be problematic down the road. Once you're happy with the dial, move on to the case. A picture with a shiny watch case with some glare can hide problems. Remember that macro pics make everything look big. Every little ding or nick is going to look large. I compare the scuff or ding to the size of the lug hole to get an idea of the actual size of the "blemish". If it's one-tenth the size of a lug hole, you might not even notice it on your wrist. One more thing, condition is subjective. Some like a watch to be more polished others like them as they are found. No right answer here.

7. If its in your budget, looks great, and satisfies your other desires as well, there are a few other things to think about. When was the last service? The dealer might not know, but he can tell you whether it is clean inside and keeping good time. Also good to know whether it passed a pressure test. While I don't going swimming with my vintage watches, it good to know if they get wet that its not the end of the world. If it will need a service figure on $350.00 to $750.00 for an uncomplicated movement.

8. If you are considering a complete set, meaning box and papers and accessories, ask to see in the photo everything that is in the set you are buying. If you are not buying it, it does not need to be in the photo. For example if its a head only purchase, but the pic has a 93150 bracelet on the watch, this can lead to confusion.

9. Be sure to ask about their return policy and the conditions for return. Many dealers have a 3 day no questions asked return policy. Others have a return policy only if the watch was "misrepresented". Ask about who pays for shipping and whether thats included in the price. One more thing to consider is if you do return the watch for whatever reason, will the dealer fax you a shipping label at your expense? If you ship on his label it may save you money on insurance and a headache if the watch is lost.

Certainly this is not all inclusive, but it should give you some things to think about. Good luck.

[watchstuff]

Thanks everyone for all their input, I have taken on board all your helpful hints. I guess now part of the fun is tracking down a vintage model that I like.

Thanks again everyone for their kind advice.
Cheers.

[cruvon]

Also have a look at this list forum members here have helped create
http://rolexforums.com/showthread.ph...highlight=list

[vintagewaferthin]

There are many many different things to look for when buying g a vintage piece, but that's just part of the fun of finding the perfect vintage.

[lhanddds]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

I have been buying and collecting watches for quite awhile now, and I still learn something from time to time when I make a purchase. Here are some questions that I would ask and also some things to keep in mind when considering a purchase.

1. Sure do your homework on a particular reference as people have suggested. After all, its your money. You need to make sure you spend it wisely. But, I can't overemphasize enough what Springer said. Let those on TRF help you once you have narrowed down your selection to a few examples. It's unlikely that you could spend a hours a day staring at vintage dials like some on this forum do. Many on this forum will help you on your vintage "journey", and thats one of the things that makes this forum great.

2. You will also need to set a budget for yourself. The budget will also in a way determine the condition and level of "correctness" of the watch you will be buying. I try to stay within my budget, however I have been known to "stray" from the budget when circumstances dictate and something special is available.

3. Consider for yourself how you intend to wear the watch. If it is going to be a daily wearer for instance, I would not be as worried about buying a watch with little dings and scuffs on the case because after six to eight months into ownership you will likely have accumulated some of those on your own. If it is going to be worn just on the weekends or less, your desire for the condition might change.

4. Trust in the dealer is one of the most important aspects of this hobby. High pressure sales tactics and evasive answers are a red flag.

5. You have to remember that dealers are not the original owners of a watch and consequently are answering some of the questions to the best of their knowledge. When I use the term original, I mean it came from Rolex that way when new. This is different than authentic which to me means that Rolex made the part. Some people will try to use the terms interchangeably...be careful. Unless the person selling you the watch is the original owner, it is very difficult for them to say with 100% certainty that it is all original with no parts changed out. Originality is important, but perhaps more important is whether the watch is all period correct. By this I mean that the dial is correct for the serial number on the case, that the hands and bezel and insert are correct for the time period, and that the bracelet is correct as well. An early serial 1675 GMT with a later dial should be priced differently than one with the correct dial if condition is the same. The degree to which a person desires the watch to be all period correct is a personal preference. That is one reason watches are priced differently. Just make sure you are getting what you are paying for.

6. Once you have determined whether the watch meets your desire for the level of correctness, a realistic evaluation of the condition needs to be done. If you are not going to be handling the watch personally prior to purchase, its important to look at several pictures from different angles to evaluate the condition. It drives me crazy when I see multiple pics from the same angle only a little bit closer...not helpful. Start with the dial and make sure there is no flaking lume plots which may be problematic down the road. Once you're happy with the dial, move on to the case. A picture with a shiny watch case with some glare can hide problems. Remember that macro pics make everything look big. Every little ding or nick is going to look large. I compare the scuff or ding to the size of the lug hole to get an idea of the actual size of the "blemish". If it's one-tenth the size of a lug hole, you might not even notice it on your wrist. One more thing, condition is subjective. Some like a watch to be more polished others like them as they are found. No right answer here.

7. If its in your budget, looks great, and satisfies your other desires as well, there are a few other things to think about. When was the last service? The dealer might not know, but he can tell you whether it is clean inside and keeping good time. Also good to know whether it passed a pressure test. While I don't going swimming with my vintage watches, it good to know if they get wet that its not the end of the world. If it will need a service figure on $350.00 to $750.00 for an uncomplicated movement.

8. If you are considering a complete set, meaning box and papers and accessories, ask to see in the photo everything that is in the set you are buying. If you are not buying it, it does not need to be in the photo. For example if its a head only purchase, but the pic has a 93150 bracelet on the watch, this can lead to confusion.

9. Be sure to ask about their return policy and the conditions for return. Many dealers have a 3 day no questions asked return policy. Others have a return policy only if the watch was "misrepresented". Ask about who pays for shipping and whether thats included in the price. One more thing to consider is if you do return the watch for whatever reason, will the dealer fax you a shipping label at your expense? If you ship on his label it may save you money on insurance and a headache if the watch is lost.

Certainly this is not all inclusive, but it should give you some things to think about. Good luck.

Great writeup John, this should be a sticky note up top

[SPARTAN2161]

Originally Posted by joe100

Search search and search. Once you find the model you like, research it here, read all you can and become an expert. This takes time and patience. This way you will be able to spot a good one or more importantly a bad one.

Don't be one of those guys who buys something, posts a pic here and finds out its completely unoriginal.

Vigilance!

Couldn't of said it better myself. Plus half the fun is finding your watch. Good luck!