Good example of fake 5513 Submariner

[springer]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Another example of these professional fake vintage Rolexes. Be careful out there. This has a fake band, case, dial, and who knows what else.

Note the font on the case numbers, and the appearance of the case - it looks brand new. The band links are way too thick and the crown on the clasp bears the ever present nonoval opening in it. The seller says the dial was relumed, I say it is fake. The inside of the caseback font is wrong also and it is missing the year and quarter the watch was made.

[tudorman8276]

....John...SPOT ON!!!!!! This may be one of those from that web site I told you about.

....we need this one TERRYNIZED.

Stan.

[springer]

Stan, I totally agree. The movement looks genuine but I can't be sure on that either.

[gingi310]

Gents: I started a topic about this same watch earlier this evening but it hasn't been approved by the mods as I am a new member. I corresponded with the seller "Wally" extensively when it was first for sale on the 'bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140246486135

He had previously listed it on TZ (where he has almost 1000 posts) with better photos: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=3816033&rid=0

I went through this guy's history and he really seemed legit; he gave his phone number and everything.

I can't believe I almost bought this watch....

[stevemulholland3]

movement is most likely correct,but the rest I wouldnt wipe my ass-ets with..

[Terry Newton]

WOW is that ever scary. His sales pitch is also frightening. He makes it out like he is a great seller on all of the forums and everyone knows him. He should be looked up on the other forums as well.

I reported this watch. Let's see what E-Bay does with it.

Terry Newton

[arttay10]

Note the difference in shading in the movement and the caseback photo's - looks like they maybe borrowed??

If he is a member here 'as said' perhaps 'Wally' could step forward and reveal himself ?

Personally and being honest - I would not have a clue on the authenticity of this piece, but I'm glad there are people like you guys to help those - like me who are less knowledgable !!

[gingi310]

...who is an eBay watch dealer. According to him, it has an aftermarket dial, hands, case, and crown. The movement is genuine and so is the bracelet, but that is it.

When confronted, the seller issued a no-hassle refund.

Question is, why is it being listed again as genuine after the seller has been informed that it is not?

I had extensive correspondence with the seller myself during the original auction. He has almost 1000 posts at TZ and tons of Rolex sales over there. Being a newbie, I was "buying the seller" and almost purchased this piece. Scary.....

Check out these better photos from the first purported sale on TZ: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=3816033&rid=0

[Lol-x]

Wow nice eye for detail guys

[jmk1]

I'm not 2 familiar with buying on eBay or any other web site. But if I was to consider it, is it possible to get a real watch on any of those sites? It seems ridiculous that you can't even trust anyone any more!

[Orchi]

Err buddies...Orchi cannot stress enough...but wishes to reiterate again...

IF anyone sees a 50 yo...40 yo...30 yo or even 20 yo...watches with near perfect looking Cases n Dials...WATCHOUT!!!

ahem...or looking like original virgin watches are near impossible to come in these days n ages...

...n if ever there is such a thing as true original virgin watches anywhere...eBay would be one of the last places on face of this earth...where it would be made available for...public auctions?

Who are the Sellers trying to fool??????...

[springer]

Two things quick:

First, JMK1, yes there are legitimate sellers on ebay.

Second, the band on the sub 5513 is 100 % fake. The seller never mentions that the case or anything else is fake in the auction, just that it is redialed. More appropriately, he should have said counterfeited dial to make it look vintage and original.

[DSJ]

Seems to be gone now...

[pwrslider]

Originally Posted by DSJ

Seems to be gone now...

Good!

[tudorman8276]

....with Springer (months ago before ever becoming a mbr here), Orchi, and SteveM.

....anyway, this web site will make UNBELIEVABLLY near perfect repro-cases, dial, etc. They WILL ENGRAVE ANYTHING on them you want, ie ser# (this one can be a GENUINE ser# again), mod#, case back engravings, etc, etc, etc. They produce everything from Monte Carlos, no guard Subs, you name it!!!! In most, they use GENUINE Rolex mvmts!!!!!

....now, IF this does NOT make you more aware to what is happening on this planet, nothing will. SCARY STUFF!!!!!!!!!

....BE VERY, VERY, VERY, careful out there.

....personally, I have recently seen a couple of purported NOS Monte Carlo dials available on eBay, one of which fetched about $5K.....I WONDER if they were actually produced at this fake factory.

Stan.

[Tombstone]

I agree you almost have to buy from an AD anything else has a risk. The fakes are getting better and better.

[Terry Newton]

Steve:

That is really frightening.

Terry Newton

[cAPSLOCK]

Guys,

I am an enthusiastic (if not expert) Rolex collector. I had this watch checked out exhaustively by two different "certified" Rolex service experts. I actually sold it on eBay and the buyer, unsure of its provenance, asked for a refund. His refund was processed within 15 minutes of me getting the watch back. I relisted on ebay and the listing was pulled. I have listed the watch on TZ again with every expert opinion noted in my listing (even the ones I was personally skeptical about).

To be characterized as a fraudulent seller on this board is shocking and discouraging. This seller has officially stepped forward.

-wally

[springer]

Send it to me, I'll get you an expert opinion and it won't be from a Rolex technician either. They are the last "experts" I'd have verify a highly deceptive counterfeit. They are not trained to detect, nor are they experts in deceptive counterfeits. I've heard many stories about the Rolex experts within Rolex. As an example, if you threw out a few model names from some of the vintage Rolex models from the 30's and 40's, they'd tell you no such Rolex was ever made even though they were genuine Rolex models. Same principle on fakes.

I haven't seen one opinion here, or on VRF that the watch is genuine. I'm sure we all feel some of your anguish, and wish it were genuine for your benefit, but that is not the case. Sorry.

[tudorman8276]

Originally Posted by springer

Send it to me, I'll get you an expert opinion and it won't be from a Rolex technician either. They are the last "experts" I'd have verify a highly deceptive counterfeit. They are not trained to detect, nor are they experts in deceptive counterfeits. I've heard many stories about the Rolex experts within Rolex. As an example, if you threw out a few model names from some of the vintage Rolex models from the 30's and 40's, they'd tell you no such Rolex was ever made even though they were genuine Rolex models. Same principle on fakes.

I haven't seen one opinion here, or on VRF that the watch is genuine. I'm sure we all feel some of your anguish, and wish it were genuine for your benefit, but that is not the case. Sorry.

...well stated John.

Stan.

[stevemulholland3]

agreed john,
sorry buddy-but nobody is buying it..

[pwrslider]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

agreed john,
sorry buddy-but nobody is buying it..

literally!

[gingi310]

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...04#msg_3886168

[Orchi]

Err buddies...in the latest listing in TZ highlighted by buddy Gingi310...although the Seller has since attempted all means to find truth about the authenticity of the watch which he has in possession...n he has since revised the descriptions of the watch...Orchi feels the Seller should instead be convinced whether the watch may have a faked case...to begin with.

Secondly...the Seller should know that 5513 did not come with 7836/358 bracelet assembly...which was originally meant for 1016...1019...1675...1601..1625 etc etc...instead...it should have 7206 or 9315 bracelet setups...

He should also get the watch checked out by a more experienced watchmaker or collector...to further determine the facts about the 5513 that he has...

That said...Orchi is no expert...but here's what Orchi believes is the key issue about the case being either service replacement case(yes in early days some RSC would stamped on the actual serial nos on new replacement case)...or in the worst scenario...a fake case.

So here's what Orchi thinks...

First up...Orchi sees the fonts n the type of the stamped references between the lugs to be a fairly recent job...1973 onwards...for a 5513 case that is said to be made in 1966...the Arabic nos...n "ORIG ROLEX DESIGN" are being fairly recent marking.




An older watch case should have the following fonts on the stamped references between the lugs...

These pictures are taken from a case dated back to late 60s...or early 70s...n one would clearly see the difference in fonts n type of markings of the case references...example "REGISTERED DESIGN" n wider Arabic fonts.

One would also see that...an older vintage case should almost always have wear n tear marks caused by the endlinks of the bracelet...which is NOT present in the case of the 5513...

[dakarsydeom]

Wow, there is quite a bite knowledge on this site.

Maybe you guys can give me your opinion. I recently bought a 5513 from a private collector/dealer who seems trust worthy. It didnt appear illegitmate to me but i brought it to Rolex to have it authenticated anyway. However, after reading through these posts im not sure anymore. Can you please give me your opinion on this? Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320275352678

kurt

[gingi310]

...to get all of the auctions for fake watches on eBay pulled while at the same time not doing anything about this fake advertised on TZ waiting for an unsuspecting buyer....

Is TZ immune from the reach of the enforcers on this board??

[Terry Newton]

I have no pull over there but somebody does from this board. Someone here posts at both places and can report this to the moderators there.

Terry Newton