Best value manual wind chronograph?

[japenney]

So, recently I have become interested in manual wind chronographs. I think a watch of this type might eventually become a realistic grail. I am planning to have around $50,000 in the watch fund given a couple of years of saving. I really enjoy manual wind watches when I've owned them and miss all the attention they need to stay ticking away . A chronograph / timing bezel + date are also my favourite complications. I also find power reserve and pulsometer useful to a lesser extent (work in a hospital).

One of the watches I have been reading about is the Patek 5070 & 5170 models. Priced at around $80,000 they are quite beautiful but expensive. I have been researching other watch brands and stumbled upon the Lange 1815 chrono for around $50,000...this is a bit closer to something I can realistically afford in the next few years. The Lange Datograph seems to have everything I need but it is SO EXPENSIVE . Watches like the platinum Daytona also become a tempting at this price range (although not manual wind).

In the lowest price range we have the omega moonwatch which seems to offer amazing value at only around $5000. Can you recommend other watches besides the ones I have mentioned? I am not biased when it comes to price and am open to any suggestions in a wide price range.

Thanks for reading :).

[locutus49]

Well, if you want to see the movement, that rules out Rolex. The ideal for you would be the 5170 if you could get one at a discount (5070 are hard to find and pricey).

[thomaspp]

5070, 5170 and 39mm dato are all great. You can get a Dato for a flat 40k if you look.


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[japenney]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Well, if you want to see the movement, that rules out Rolex. The ideal for you would be the 5170 if you could get one at a discount (5070 are hard to find and pricey).

Any idea of a realistic discount on a 5170, ballpark? I only have experience negotiating with Rolex watches from new...and I know the 5711 is not discounted, for example.

Originally Posted by thomaspp

5070, 5170 and 39mm dato are all great. You can get a Dato for a flat 40k if you look.


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That is really tempting, I will look into that. I really like the Datograph . Should I look on the for sale forums here? What would be a realistic discount at an AD?

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Well, if you want to see the movement, that rules out Rolex. The ideal for you would be the 5170 if you could get one at a discount (5070 are hard to find and pricey).

A 5070j just sold at auction for $58K. Prices have really fallen.

[el1125]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

A 5070j just sold at auction for $58K. Prices have really fallen.

The J "maybe" the least expensive of them all. Was that a complete set that you are referring to? Is it a mint example? Is that with the auction fees included?That seems like a "pretty good" price.

[el1125]

The Platinum Daytona (automatic and more sporty) or the 5070 (dressy and prob above your pricing requirements) would be my pics...

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by el1125

The J "maybe" the least expensive of them all. Was that a complete set that you are referring to? Is it a mint example? Is that with the auction fees included?That seems like a "pretty good" price.

It was the Christies May16 auction in Geneva. Most of the gold 5070 models are around that price, give or take.

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by el1125

The Platinum Daytona (automatic and more sporty) or the 5070 (dressy and prob above your pricing requirements) would be my pics...

It includes the buyers premium. Even the 5970j just sold for $99K. Wow!

[soundserious]

Your timeframe is 2 years? Patek 5070j sounds like your watch. Beautiful watch.

[japenney]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Your timeframe is 2 years? Patek 5070j sounds like your watch. Beautiful watch.

Prefer white gold in this reference. I assume that would cost a bit more.

[soundserious]

Originally Posted by japenney

Prefer white gold in this reference. I assume that would cost a bit more.

Oh certainly, white gold is a great choice...but we're looking for best values aren't we? And the premium for metal color has to be factored in.

[japenney]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Oh certainly, white gold is a great choice...but we're looking for best values aren't we? And the premium for metal color has to be factored in.

Looking more like its between the previous version of the lange datograph at around $40,000 vs a new 1815. Going to be hard to stretch a 5070.

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by japenney

Looking more like its between the previous version of the lange datograph at around $40,000 vs a new 1815. Going to be hard to stretch a 5070.

Only the boutique 1815 chrono has the pulse scale, the regular issue has none. The previous version does though which I much prefer.

The boutique one is nice but I'd always buy these pieces pre owned as the resale value takes a drop. You can pick up an older 1815 for around 30k. I'd say that is good value for the best chrono movement around. I'm biased perhaps as I have the WG 1815.


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[busytimmy]

I would actually prefer the 1815 chrono (old or new version) over any datograph


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[lapince]

Lange 39mm datograph, platinum, great looking, incredible manual movement, and according to Dufour, the best chrono in the world, even he has one, that for me is the obvious choice, and like was said is obtainable for around 40k, I saw the movement in real on the dato perp, and it is just amazing, like a micro city... I like the 5070p but in pt or wg...

[cervantes]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

It includes the buyers premium. Even the 5970j just sold for $99K. Wow!

That's because it's a J. G or R with box and papers sell way higher than that - 135 - 155.
And the 5070G goes for 60k and up.

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by cervantes

That's because it's a J. G or R with box and papers sell way higher than that - 135 - 155.

And the 5070G goes for 60k and up.

5070g is closer to $58K. Either way, it's a far cry from what they used to go for and what PP is asking for a new 5170.

[cervantes]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

5070g is closer to $58K. Either way, it's a far cry from what they used to go for and what PP is asking for a new 5170.

A good version goes for over 60, closer to 67,68. A new 5170 could be had for a bit under 60 if you have a good relationship with the dealer. 60 and change normally.

[Slider817]

If you are comfortable going for a bit older model, the Vacheron 47101 and 47111 Chronographs use the same base movement as the Patek 5070 and cost about a 1/5th the price. Just a gorgeous and classic watch.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by lapince

Lange 39mm datograph, platinum, great looking, incredible manual movement, and according to Dufour, the best chrono in the world, even he has one, that for me is the obvious choice, and like was said is obtainable for around 40k, I saw the movement in real on the dato perp, and it is just amazing, like a micro city... I like the 5070p but in pt or wg...

That would be a pre 2005 model at that price and definately not a perpetual

[RUK]

Best value manual wind chrono - look no further than a Speedmaster Professional. You can get a Speedmaster with a clear back. Timless watch. cant go wrong. I would but that first and then go to more high end watches if you feel the need.

[mps354]

All the best options have been mentioned imo. The Speedmaster I think is the best value, and you could pick one up for $3-$4k. The vc 47101 is also great, with a Yg probably costing you $10-$14k. I love my old version of the 1815 chrono in wg, and I believe they go for $30k ish. As for the 5170 and 5070, more expensive but beautiful watches. I really like all versions of both references and hope to pick one up eventually. Other options would be the vacheron traditionnelle and the jlc duometre

[subtona]

if you are feeling the speedy, the older versions had the more serious/interesting movement vs the newer.

as mentioned the 1815 is another great option.

sounds like you have some time before purchase, so you have the luxury of patience to find what ever you like at the right price.

5170 can be had for under 60k… how much under will be the negotiating part

my experience would say be sure to see them and try them on in person, for example the 5070 really looks different from pictures in most cases and fits on the wrist better than its size would indicate.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by subtona

if you are feeling the speedy, the older versions had the more serious/interesting movement vs the newer.

as mentioned the 1815 is another great option.

sounds like you have some time before purchase, so you have the luxury of patience to find what ever you like at the right price.

5170 can be had for under 60k… how much under will be the negotiating part

my experience would say be sure to see them and try them on in person, for example the 5070 really looks different from pictures in most cases and fits on the wrist better than its size would indicate.

I echo the above.

I also would add that you should determine if you truly are looking for the best value or if you, deep down, want a higher end piece (ALS, PP, VC, for example). If the latter, then even more reason to remain patient for longer and save to get the "grail" piece. It will be cheaper in the long run.

[benlee]

How about the Lange 1815 Chronograph? Good value and has the same amazing movement finish as the much more expensive Datograph.

[watchucallit]

I really like the Lange 1815 chronograph but you stated date function is important so perhaps the datograph is a better choice for you. I like the fact that some of the datographs have a PR indicator. The datographs are not as comfortable to wear for some so you really need to see how it feels on your wrist.

[KarlS]

Just be aware the Dato does tend to sit like a hockey puck on your wrist as it's quite thick!

[murcielago_boy]

Originally Posted by cervantes

That's because it's a J. G or R with box and papers sell way higher than that - 135 - 155.
And the 5070G goes for 60k and up.

May I politely disagree.
5970 in J was lowest production out of R, J and G.

5070 also coming off IMO.

Strange times.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by subtona

if you are feeling the speedy, the older versions had the more serious/interesting movement vs the newer.

as mentioned the 1815 is another great option.

sounds like you have some time before purchase, so you have the luxury of patience to find what ever you like at the right price.

5170 can be had for under 60k… how much under will be the negotiating part

my experience would say be sure to see them and try them on in person, for example the 5070 really looks different from pictures in most cases and fits on the wrist better than its size would indicate.

Gus, you're talking about a pre-owned 5170 for under 60K, right?