TT Submariner - AD or Grey Market?

[Ranman]

Hello everybody. New to the forum. I've done some searching here but still have a question or two.

My wife just bought me a 16613 Sub at a local AD. She received a 6% discount making the watch $8507 + 6% MI sales tax.

On ebay, what looks like a reputable grey market dealer (topnotch-watch) is offering the same M series Sub for $7395.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...QQcmdZViewItem

Now I am faced with the decision of what to do.

Realizing that with the GM I will forgo the warranty, but considering the savings, it seems like a no brainer. The local AD says they will refininsh the watch for free for life. I take this to be cleaning and polishing. Is there value to this service? Is this something that is acceptable for a Rolex AD to do?

Can anyone offer some sound advice on the ebay seller, lack of warranty and what ther opinion on what they would do? I know it's a mouthful, but thank you for the replies.

~R

[SLS]

I doubt it includes cleaning/servicing the watch, it probably means just polishing the watch. In regards to the price of the TT Sub, there are much cheaper ones available here on this site and other's. I will leave that decision up to you.
~Scott

[toph]

i always prefer the AD for peace of mind. But if something comes up preowned at a very attractive price then you just never know.
welcome to TRF

[kcmo]

Welcome to TRF!

I have not dealt personally with the ebay seller but have heard he has a great reputation. For the almost $2k savings, I'd definitely go grey on this one!

As for the value of the lifetime refinishing, it's not worth $2k to me. Rolex will polish your watch during each service (5yr intervals) which is fine. I don't think it's wise to polish the watch often anyway as both steel and gold will be removed each time it's polished.

Good luck!

[Ranman]

Originally Posted by SLS

there are much cheaper ones available here on this site and other's. I will leave that decision up to you.
~Scott

Would someone kindly steer me towards those options? I see one in the FS section from TempoKing, but that's the only one I spotted.

[Tools]

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.....

You have a gift of a brand new TT Sub from an AD and someone you love, along with the 2 year Rolex warranty and all the bits, plus some established rapport with a Dealer.. Now you want to insult her and her purchase for you...

Apparently you want to take it back and buy a used watch on E-bay instead..... It doesn't matter what topnotch says, it is a resell... no warranty, unknown condition, unknown follow-up such as sizing, general cleaning, repairs, mail-order back and forth hassles......

For what purpose.....to show her that you can get a better "deal" and make her feel that her gift means nothing. In a few months you won't even notice the difference monetarily..

(read this in a gentle and kind fatherly tone)

[SLS]

Originally Posted by Tools

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.....

You have a gift of a brand new TT Sub from an AD and someone you love, along with the 2 year Rolex warranty and all the bits, plus some established rapport with a Dealer.. Now you want to insult her and her purchase for you...

Apparently you want to take it back and buy a used watch on E-bay instead..... It doesn't matter what topnotch says, it is a resell... no warranty, unknown condition, unknown follow-up such as sizing, general cleaning, repairs, mail-order back and forth hassles......

For what purpose.....to show her that you can get a better "deal" and make her feel that her gift means nothing. In a few months you won't even notice the difference monetarily..

(read this in a gentle and kind fatherly tone)

I was going to say something similar, but chose to delete it! My wife gave me a TT Blue Sub for Christmas one year, it is one watch that will never be flipped, traded or sold!

~Scott

[SLS]

Originally Posted by Ranman

Would someone kindly steer me towards those options? I see one in the FS section from TempoKing, but that's the only one I spotted.

PM Sent
~Scott

[2careless]

I'm with Larry here.

[rmilian]

My wife gave me a Daytona TT for my birthday two months ago and I would not trade it or sell it and I don't even want to know how much she paid for it. I love it!

[tutone]

This watch was a gift, plus the AD will treat you right from now on. Save the GM purchase for your next one. Some of them offer warranties too, but then there is that mailing hassle.

[gmt master x]

Grey All The Way, just my opinion......

[yallr]

Grey is ok. Be sure to check references.

How about a picture of your new watch.

Sure a nice gift to give up.

Thank You

[Atlanta]

AD for me.

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by Ranman

Hello everybody. New to the forum. I've done some searching here but still have a question or two.

My wife just bought me a 16613 Sub at a local AD. She received a 6% discount making the watch $8507 + 6% MI sales tax.

On ebay, what looks like a reputable grey market dealer (topnotch-watch) is offering the same M series Sub for $7395.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-Submariner...QQcmdZViewItem

Now I am faced with the decision of what to do.

Realizing that with the GM I will forgo the warranty, but considering the savings, it seems like a no brainer. The local AD says they will refininsh the watch for free for life. I take this to be cleaning and polishing. Is there value to this service? Is this something that is acceptable for a Rolex AD to do?

Can anyone offer some sound advice on the ebay seller, lack of warranty and what ther opinion on what they would do? I know it's a mouthful, but thank you for the replies.

~R

If you saw a watch at TRF that is described UNWORN buy it because the owner of the watch (ME) will only sell such a factory fresh watch that is still wrapped with the factory protective plastics to TRF members ONLY.

The price is the lowest YOU will ever get from anyone else in the PLANET ...period.-

The above suggestion is from me (a Rolex vintage watch Collector who has dedicated his time and effort to supply his fellow TRF members with the lowest priced modern Rolex watches when ever possible) to you.

No Fraud..OR.. Profiteering here.

[Ranman]

Thank you everybody for the feedback (including Tools'). I want to expand a bit on our particular situation.

My wife has known for several years how much I admire the TT Sub and for our 5th anniversary, she decided that it was time to get me one. Now she went out and looked around the stores a bit and found what she thought was an OK deal. Now, we're not rich by any means and $9K is a lot of money to us She also knew that I had spoken in the past of ways to get a Sub at a better price outside of an AD. The watch she picked out and brouight home was something for me to open (and potentially keep). We then discussed the possibility of finding a better deal and what that meant with respect to the price, service, etc.

After reading some of the comments above (particularly Tool's) I began to have a change of heart. I actually sat her down and showed her this thread and told her I was thinking of keeping the watch she picked out. Her response? "I was hoping you'd be able to find a better deal than I got." I was able to find a member from this site who I am working a deal with and at a $1500 to $2000 savings, I'm willing to sacrifice a little "service" and accept some risk on the warranty end. The wife is happy with saving the money as well (will help to save up for a lady Datejust)

I am a buyer by profession and the wife and I love hunting for a good deal. She isn't the least bit insulted and we are both very excited to get a nice deal on a non-AD BNIB "M" 16613.

Thanks to TRF. This is a nice forum with a lot of good info that made my research rather enjoyable. I'll be sure to post some pics when my deal is complete.

~R

[improviz]

If you buy grey, *insist* that the person from whom you purchase it allow you to verify authenticity and proper functionality. Watches can be damaged, and there are phenomenal frauds available out there, and with this type of investment, you need to be sure of what you're getting.

If somebody refuses to let you do this, I'd take my businesses elsewhere. There is no good reason not to allow someone to verify the authenticity and condition of a watch.

[Z-Sub]

with confidence with Tempoking.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

with confidence with Tempoking.

I won't. I enquired about a sub he had, and he refused to make any arrangements to allow me to authenticate it. Deal over.

There are plenty of retailers who, as SOP, allow you a day or two to check the watch out, and I see no good reason not to allow it.

[Ranman]

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

with confidence with Tempoking.

Thanks!

[Tools]

Well, sounds like you have good direction.

I recommend either Alan Furman ( www.alanfurman.com ), whoalso has a Brick and Mortar store in MD.

Or www.SwissLuxury.com that others have spoken highly of..

[ashu2289]

Originally Posted by Z-Sub

with confidence with Tempoking.

X2!!!!He's really really trustworthy

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by improviz

....I enquired about a sub he had, and he refused to make any arrangements to allow me to authenticate it.

I do not think that this was what you wanted from me, maybe that's what you meant to say.
Your example was....When I buy a shot gun the manufacturer or the retailer of the shot gun allows you to try the gun out before you make a decision such as to keep it or return it....With Rolex watches...This does not work for many reasons, please ask the moderators to explain why, as I do not want you to think that I am biased.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

I do not think that this was what you wanted from me, maybe that's what you meant to say.
Your example was....When I buy a shot gun the manufacturer or the retailer of the shot gun allows you to try the gun out before you make a decision such as to keep it or return it....With Rolex watches...This does not work for many reasons, please ask the moderators to explain why, as I do not want you to think that I am biased.

??? Perhaps you're thinking of someone else; what I had asked you was the following:

Hello -

Interested in this, although I was looking for a black/gold two tone...still, have a few questions:

1. what forms of payment will you accept?

2. as w/any such transaction, I'll want to take it to a local appraisor and verify authenticity. Do you offer a window to do this? Not anticipating any problems, of course, but as RR said, "trust and verify".

Thanks in advance....

Your response:

"Trust, but verify"
You are absolutely correct.
Let me assure you that I understand totally your reservations with such a transaction.
If I may suggest to you, that for total peace of mind your local authorised Rolex dealer is the best choice.
Thank you very much for your kind interest.
Best regards
Anastasios

This left me puzzled, as I saw no reason that one could have any objections to verification of proper functionality and authenticity.

And I still don't.

Anyway, if you somehow gleaned from that that I was wanting the right to wear the watch for a few weeks and return it, well, now all I can say is that I'm even more puzzled. I thought I was very clear....no?

[sleedawg]

Tejas,

I think what Anastasios is trying to express is that for some people, there's no peace of mind unless they buy from a dealer. That's why he's expressing a sugestion that you might want to just go through the dealer.

Anastasios is a well respected seller on the Rolex Forums and would never sell anything that wasn't authentic.

Me personally, I was fearful the first time I bought outside an AD so I understand your concern. Most private sellers don't want to talk about return policy time periods just because of the fear of buyer's regret. But, I'm sure that Anastasios or other respected sellers will stand behind their product if there's ever an issue such as authenticity.

Steve

[TempoKing]

Dear Improviz
Sometimes among fellow members at TRF might be a misunderstanding of intent.
I guess I misunderstood your intent.
Anyway not to worry, we have thousands of deals to make in the future...

[improviz]

Originally Posted by sleedawg

Tejas,

I think what Anastasios is trying to express is that for some people, there's no peace of mind unless they buy from a dealer. That's why he's expressing a sugestion that you might want to just go through the dealer.

Possibly, but I hardly think that asking to verify the authenticity of a $5,000+ watch qualifies me as a primadonna. Anyhoo...

Originally Posted by sleedawg

Anastasios is a well respected seller on the Rolex Forums and would never sell anything that wasn't authentic.

Me personally, I was fearful the first time I bought outside an AD so I understand your concern. Most private sellers don't want to talk about return policy time periods just because of the fear of buyer's regret. But, I'm sure that Anastasios or other respected sellers will stand behind their product if there's ever an issue such as authenticity.

Steve

I would hope so. Perhaps it was a simple misunderstanding, then.

[improviz]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Dear Improviz
Sometimes among fellow members at TRF might be a misunderstanding of intent.
I guess I misunderstood your intent.
Anyway not to worry, we have thousands of deals to make in the future...

Indeed.

[MikeV]

Good luck with your search. If you can get a better deal go for it, just be careful of where you get it. I don't think a better deal takes anything away from the the thought your wife put into it...i'm glad that you ran the idea by her though.

[HKperf]

I've done a GMT deal with tempoking and we still keep in touch..he is one good guy to know in our community..