Saw Moser watches in person for first time— disappointing.

[debner4]

No disrespect intended for any Moser owners, but I have always admired them in photos, but seeing the brand in the metal today, I thought they were a slightly nicer and more refined Panerai. Certainly nice, but not worth $20k - $30k+.

The fume dials were nice, but again, not as good as in photos and the dial-side lacked the finishing level and appearance of other watches in its price range, especially, Patek, AP, Lange, Vacheron or Journe.

I thought they were nice, but they looked like $10,000 - $12,000 watches to me.

[tyler1980]

its subjective for sure. I happen to like them. In any case, production volume being tiny, and the in house nature of their work is a huge factor in unit price. It is also value add for the buyer in terms of exclusivity and that tradeoff does make sense.

[SROB]

Interesting. I've never seen them in person, but online, they appear to be great pieces. I'm hoping to see some soon on a trip.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Justindo]

I've tried on a couple Mosers and while I like them, I agree that they seem like $10,000-$12,000 watches. It would take a substantial discount for me ton consider one over a Lange, Vacheron, Journe, or Patek.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Justindo

I've tried on a couple Mosers and while I like them, I agree that they seem like $10,000-$12,000 watches. It would take a substantial discount for me ton consider one over a Lange, Vacheron, Journe, or Patek.

i get that taste is subjective but i dont understand the idea that its a PM watch we are talking about (most likely) and you are valuing it at a SS Rolex price point. Moser makes like 1500 watches a year and Rolex makes close to a million.

The ones i am interested in cost less than the ALS, FJP, or Pateks im interested in. VC has a sports chronograph in SS at 30K.

A SS moser pioneer is a great value at about 1/2 the price of a VC overseas time/date and 1/3 the price of a 5711. Its only marginally more than a Rolex Sub.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by debner4

No disrespect intended for any Moser owners, but I have always admired them in photos, but seeing the brand in the metal today, I thought they were a slightly nicer and more refined Panerai. Certainly nice, but not worth $20k - $30k+.

The fume dials were nice, but again, not as good as in photos and the dial-side lacked the finishing level and appearance of other watches in its price range, especially, Patek, AP, Lange, Vacheron or Journe.

I thought they were nice, but they looked like $10,000 - $12,000 watches to me.

Which Moser model were you checking out? I think the entry Moser fume small seconds can be easily had for around USD10K

[Justindo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i get that taste is subjective but i dont understand the idea that its a PM watch we are talking about (most likely) and you are valuing it at a SS Rolex price point. Moser makes like 1500 watches a year and Rolex makes close to a million.

The ones i am interested in cost less than the ALS, FJP, or Pateks im interested in. VC has a sports chronograph in SS at 30K.

A SS moser pioneer is a great value at about 1/2 the price of a VC overseas time/date and 1/3 the price of a 5711. Its only marginally more than a Rolex Sub.

Comparing apples to apples, one can purchase a ALS Saxonia for $11,000 or a VC Traditionnelle Small Seconds for $12,000 new from an AD. They're both 18k as well, so that doesn't make the Moser a good value to me. ALS produces around 5000 watches a year, more than Moser, but not exactly a lot. I don't know what VC's numbers are but I'd guess its far less than Patek's 50,000, and I'm not sure if that number includes 24s or not. What this does say to me is that Rolex is, comparatively speaking, way overpriced, even though I have a couple and plan to get a couple more.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Justindo

Comparing apples to apples, one can purchase a ALS Saxonia for $11,000 or a VC Traditionnelle Small Seconds for $12,000 new from an AD. They're both 18k as well, so that doesn't make the Moser a good value to me. ALS produces around 5000 watches a year, more than Moser, but not exactly a lot. I don't know what VC's numbers are but I'd guess its far less than Patek's 50,000, and I'm not sure if that number includes 24s or not. What this does say to me is that Rolex is, comparatively speaking, way overpriced, even though I have a couple and plan to get a couple more.

yeah ALS in particular has some good value watches as well.

[toxicavenger]

Very subjective. Most people who are not wis would not pay anywhere what others would pay for a watch.

[GB-man]

Didn’t float my boat either. No big deal.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

I'm sort of considering the Swiss Alps ("Apple watch") small seconds as a dress watch, the movement is pretty nice and has great fumee dials and it's a fun gimmick.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

I'm sort of considering the Swiss Alps ("Apple watch") small seconds as a dress watch, the movement is pretty nice and has great fumee dials and it's a fun gimmick.

I think that's the thing that draws me in as well. They might not have the build quality or finishing of ALS, but I love the way they run the company. It has a whimsical/fun, slightly rebellious attitude that I enjoy. ALS, VC, Patek are all too stuffy and serious for my taste. It's this same reason I love FPJ.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Justindo

…
ALS produces around 5000 watches a year, more than Moser, but not exactly a lot. I don’t know what VC’s numbers are but I'd guess its far less than Patek's 50,000, and I'm not sure if that number includes 24s or not.
…

Vacheron make circa 25K watches per annum.

[rolehex]

I think they are stunning in pics online but I've never seen them in person. They are out of my price range all together though.

[Justindo]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Vacheron make circa 25K watches per annum.

Thank you for that information. That's around what I was thinking.

[Jocke]

If you give the movement more attention than the dial it is more understandable the price range. A small brand that made their own hairspring
for example is very unique. Many people don't like "The less is more" that maybe give the watch not so expensive look.

I love both the Moser watches and the company and we all have different taste. For example I don't look much at AP or PP but that is just me.

[callmaster]

Big fan of Moser, waiting on the Perpetual 1 in Platinum.

[bigfatpauli]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

I'm sort of considering the Swiss Alps ("Apple watch") small seconds as a dress watch, the movement is pretty nice and has great fumee dials and it's a fun gimmick.

Bingo.

You just described the Moser philosophy.

I would take a JLC over a Moser any day of the week with regards to design and finishing, never mind Lange, VC, Patek etc.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Bingo.

You just described the Moser philosophy.

I would take a JLC over a Moser any day of the week with regards to design and finishing, never mind Lange, VC, Patek etc.

To each his own, but I own two JLCs and I would never put them on the same build quality scale as Moser.

I also think VC quality is somewhat overrated as well, at least on their modern watches.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Bingo.

You just described the Moser philosophy.

I would take a JLC over a Moser any day of the week with regards to design and finishing, never mind Lange, VC, Patek etc.

A JLC over a Moser, allow me to laugh a little.

JLC finish, ouups what happen to my screw? Maybe only finish at the things you see with the backcase on?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Bingo.

You just described the Moser philosophy.

Bollocks!

[vman]

Having handled a lot of JLC and Moser watches, I'd choose Moser any day. Why? They try harder.

JLC may be a watchmakers watch, but I prefer its movements in other brands' cases. JLC may offer good service, but there are enough stories about the brand that justify the poor second-hand retail value. Let me summarize: While I love the brand, I don't want to deal with their service department again. It is not about them. It is about my time. It is hard to say this because I love their watches... I really want to get a perpetual calendar, but I cannot imagine dealing with its service/issues.

Moser, Parmigiani, and the likes are so well priced now that I am willing to dip in.

[themaninblack]

Ultimately you have roughly 40mm of metal and glass. There is only so much to find in these things so if it isn’t a home run straight off the bat, it probably never will be. Look elsewhere.

[bigfatpauli]

Hello,

I didn't think what I said was funny, but laughing is good for the heart.

I'm sorry to hear about the damaged screw on that one JLC, but one damaged screw does not negate a brands finishing capabilities. After all, I'm sure if we checked every Moser we would find one damaged screw somewhere...

More to the spirit of my comment, let's really compare the two: Moser and JLC.

One company has a 180 years of innovation, has supplied movements to nearly every major high end manufacture, invented the keyless watch and was the first to measure with accuracy to a micron. The other made a watch out of cheese.

There isn't much point comparing pedigree, innovation or heritage...

So let's look at finishing. Moser, without a doubt puts a good deal of effort into their finishing but, honestly, I don't see it being that superior to what is in a modern Master Control with their finely made gold rotor weights - And the JLC in this case is about a 1/3 of the price. But that's not really what JLC's finishing is about - let's consider things like the Duometer (which is closer in MSRP to many Mosers). Or their complicated watches - read a Gyrotourbillon or anything from the Hybris line and Moser is left comfortably in the rear view mirror.

Finally, let's talk about design. The Reverso is, in many ways along with a Cartier Tank, the definitive rectangular watch. Moser, unable to come up with an original idea, knocked off the most ubiquitous watch of this decade. I can't help feel all but certain at one point they considered making a Moser Submariner with fume dial...

But Moser - they are a real trailblazer! They poked fun at all the Swiss iconic watches in one fell swoop! And they are good company because they were going to donate all the proceeds to charity!

Yeah, instead of doing something like Only Watch - with real creativity and donating the money - they just made fun of a the best designs out there and the FLAKED on donating to charity because they didn't make the watch. That's both a case of sour grapes and an obvious grab at free marketing at the expense of those in need. They could never hope to make a watch that is even a shadow of one of the icons they tried to knock off. And, frankly, I don't believe they ever intended to make, much less sell the watch (knowing intellectual property and patent laws) which means they never planned to give the money to charity, only get the free press.

This is just one mans opinion - and you don't have to agree or like or agree with it.

Yes, their prices are good - preowned. They fall in value so sharply on the secondary market for good reason. I've see a Moser Monard Ltd edition in 18k red gold with a black enamel Dial with a 7 day power reserve that was BNIB go for under $10kUSD - a watch with a sticker over $30km. That's not an exception for Moser.

Again, that's me. That's how I see it. To each their own. I won't buy a Moser. But you can.

All the best,

-Paul

[tng11]

Tried on a couple of Mosers in person at the AD in London last month. I wasn't a huge fan of the dials - they were too empty and lacked warmth, depth and the detailing that I had expected. Overall, I was left underwhelmed considering the price tag. The only one I liked was the ceramic perpetual calendar, which doesn't have a traditional Moser dial on it.

[ap1]

Glass needs anti reflective

[endo]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Yeah, instead of doing something like Only Watch - with real creativity and donating the money - they just made fun of a the best designs out there and the FLAKED on donating to charity because they didn't make the watch.

Except they have done Only Watch, several times over.
Not only that they've previously auctioned of prototypes of the Swiss Alps, and Swiss Mad watch for charity.


As for the Swiss Icons, a working version does actually exist, during SIHH there were live videos of the watch being unboxed/handled on instagram, however pressure from the big boys of the industry put a stop to it pretty quick, they probably avoided seriously legal trouble as it never made for a profit.

[benlee]

They need to do something about their pricing strategy, both MSRP and value retention. Right now, I can walk into my AD and get a 30 to 35% off, even more for one of those higher end pieces like Perpetual Calendar. This means their MSRP are way over-price to start with. And even at these discounts, one can still loose another 50% on resale. Basically even with a small production of 1,000 pieces and "very rare", they have a hard time moving inventory.

The brand is not well known beyond the WIS community, maybe that's why the need for the publicity stunts we saw.

I owned a Moser once and won't rule out buying another. I quite fancy the Pioneer RG with a fume chocolate dial. They do make lovely watches.

Comparison with JLC is a moot point IMHO as one is a horological powerhouse with one of the broadest product offering among Swiss brand while another basically just focus on churning out dressy watches with minimalist design. They are rather different.

[TRM]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

Very subjective. Most people who are not wis would not pay anywhere what others would pay for a watch.

That is a very valid point!