Omega 8500 Caliber putting some pressure on Rolex...

[Mthwatch]

The specs on the new 8500 movement from Omega are pretty amazing....

Double barrel design (DLC coated) with a 60 hour power reserve
Dual directional winding automatic
Free sprung balance
Full balance bridge
39 jewels
202 parts
COSC certification

It looks to me as though Omega bench marked the now 20 year old 3135 and just upped it everywhere that it could.

What do you guys think? Should Rolex be worried? Should they fight back with an update or reworking of their base calibers or do you think that they just don't care?

Personally, I was really shocked by the difference in the Omega 2500 caliber that was beating inside my Planet Ocean and the 3130 inside my Submariner (which should arrive early next week - the waiting is killing me). I think Omega is just catching up with Rolex in the 8500 caliber and that Rolex should feel no immediate threat. It will take some time for people to realize that Omega is quickly closing the gap in quality (and entry level price) with Rolex and I suspect Rolex will continue on its technological tear - namely using new materials in both their cases and movements. I think it could end up being a pretty interesting war in quality - and if the prices don't become too astronomical we could all be in for some pretty amazing watches in the next few years!

[jimbo1mcm]

I also heard that the Grand Seiko had a new very high quality movement. Anyone know the specs?

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by Mthwatch

The specs on the new 8500 movement from Omega are pretty amazing....

Double barrel design (DLC coated) with a 60 hour power reserve
Dual directional winding automatic
Free sprung balance
Full balance bridge
39 jewels
202 parts
COSC certification

It looks to me as though Omega bench marked the now 20 year old 3135 and just upped it everywhere that it could.

What do you guys think? Should Rolex be worried? Should they fight back with an update or reworking of their base calibers or do you think that they just don't care?

Personally, I was really shocked by the difference in the Omega 2500 caliber that was beating inside my Planet Ocean and the 3130 inside my Submariner (which should arrive early next week - the waiting is killing me). I think Omega is just catching up with Rolex in the 8500 caliber and that Rolex should feel no immediate threat. It will take some time for people to realize that Omega is quickly closing the gap in quality (and entry level price) with Rolex and I suspect Rolex will continue on its technological tear - namely using new materials in both their cases and movements. I think it could end up being a pretty interesting war in quality - and if the prices don't become too astronomical we could all be in for some pretty amazing watches in the next few years!

The 2500 is a nice mechanizm, but its yet to be tried to proven reliability of the 3135 !
Nothing to worry about as far as ROLEX is concerned; OMEGA has more to worry with trying to still find its "face" for its various lines such as the "Seamaster" and encase the new movement to "payoffability" and yes, this does mean more price increases from OMEGA, hmm !

[Mthwatch]

Originally Posted by jimbo1mcm

I also heard that the Grand Seiko had a new very high quality movement. Anyone know the specs?

Not sure about specs, but the Spring Drive is something all its own. I think it is one of the most amazing pieces of watchmaking on earth.

[VisibleSpecter]

Pretty fascinating. I don't think Rolex is in any danger, especially due to how dogmatic its fans are. Personally, my one Rolex makes me happy enough, and I really want to get a PO for my next watch! I'm going to an AD over the weekend to try one on over the weekend. We'll see how it turns out!

[Lion]

Both watch brands have their followers with many people owning both. I really like the products that Rolex produces and will stay with them. As for pressure from Omega I do not believe it will occur. Customers will continue to buy both brands to fit their needs!!!

[Mthwatch]

Originally Posted by Lion

Both watch brands have their followers with many people owning both. I really like the products that Rolex produces and will stay with them. As for pressure from Omega I do not believe it will occur. Customers will continue to buy both brands to fit their needs!!!

I don't really mean "brand loyalty" or any of that stuff. I know Rolex will continue to have its many, many fans. You're definitely right there.

I really meant - will Rolex meet this challenge in quality and technology with even greater movements and more experimentation in materials? It reminds me of the automotive wars of the last decade or so. Audi really pushed BMW and Mercedes pushed them both to become greater and greater. I would hope that we're entering that era in the watch industry...

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by Mthwatch

I don't really mean "brand loyalty" or any of that stuff. I know Rolex will continue to have its many, many fans. You're definitely right there.

I really meant - will Rolex meet this challenge in quality and technology with even greater movements and more experimentation in materials? It reminds me of the automotive wars of the last decade or so. Audi really pushed BMW and Mercedes pushed them both to become greater and greater. I would hope that we're entering that era in the watch industry...

nope, their 3135/6 series are proven and with the advent of the Parachrom spring (a gimmick f u ask me, kinda like the He valve on the SMP) was its only innovation claiming impervious to magnetic fields. ROLEX wont IMO be changing this mvmt anytime soon, so no; no new technologies or materials as its not needed by their line model (design)...
ROLEX is not challenged in any way my OMEGA IMO...

[cody p]

one word: ball bearings. ok, that was two. rolex needs to update their rotor assembly with ball bearings. the sleeve bearing is a weak point. they did this with the daytona 4130, now they need to do it across the entire line.

[tomee]

some pics for you guys of my deville with the 8500

[DSJ]

Originally Posted by cody p

one word: ball bearings. ok, that was two. rolex needs to update their rotor assembly with ball bearings. the sleeve bearing is a weak point. they did this with the daytona 4130, now they need to do it across the entire line.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Rolex makes a fine movement to be sure, but they are not up to the cost of the watch.

Omega is making watches for timepiece enthusiasts. Rolex doesn't have to. 90+% of their watches are sold for one reason. ROLEX.

[RolexCat]

I was on the all in house kick last year. I had looked at a 8500 Omegas as i already had a SMP. I really think the 8500 is going to be a super watch, but at the increase in price for the 8500 i had to think. For me the cost for the 8500, and the Sea Dweller was close. So i have always wanted a Rolex, so i did just that. I belive my SD will hold its value better then a 8500, and along that i wanted a SD it made my choice easy. Ron

[mldaytona]

Yes, Omega's 8500 is an amazing movement. Truly state of the art.

[Andad]

Has it changed much in 2.5 years?

[dysondiver]

if the new rolex had a timex movement in it , it would still sell and people would buy it .
its more the marketing than the movement.
yes you have to have something to market , but as much as i hate to say it , your average seiko will do the same jobas a rolex 99%of the time. ....
its all about percieved value over actual value..... thats what most pay for.

[htc8p]

what is the bhp of 8500 movement?

looks like the new PO has caught my eye! i think this is going to be THE dive watch. the sub has serious competition

[LeOnfromtheblock]

Public perception of the 2 brands is still day and night. You ask anyone who doesnt know much/anything about watches which brand out of Omega and Rolex they think is held in higher regard and I guarantee the majority percentage would say Rolex. That gap may close in the coming years with Omegas push to 'compete' with Rolex but who knows...

[Dweller of the Sea]

Rolex 31xx is great movement, as is Omegas 8500, but it is not a threat. Most common consumers don´t buy the movement first, they buy brand and look.
Both brands have a great and rich history.
If Rolex is threatened by Omega, I would then say it is the design. Many find Rolex´s design old fashion, Omega has a much more modern design. Omegas design is still, like Rolex, full of dna from their old models.

The biggest threat to Rolex, is Rolex themselves. They have become too overpriced. They have been overprized for long, but now it is just crazy. You an buy several other brands at the same price, with far superior quality.

Omega has prized themselves pretty good with their new in-house models. They are (as all high end brands) overprized, but not crazy.

Omega has, and have for many years, a good marketing. They also have the money. They will create a brand like Rolex within a decade, to the ordinary consumer. Just look at Nicole Kidman, George Clooney, James Bond and astronauts.

[xjeeunitx]

I can see Omega taking some Rolex customers but Rolex should not be worried as people will continue to follow and buy the brand.

[Gagebuilder]

Originally Posted by htc8p

what is the bhp of 8500 movement?

looks like the new PO has caught my eye! i think this is going to be THE dive watch. the sub has serious competition

8500 is 25,200 bph, 7 per second.

The only people who know about the Omega improvements are WIS. Rolex marketing and brand recognition are still firmly in the lead.

[firstOwatch]

Originally Posted by DSJ

I wholeheartedly agree.

Rolex makes a fine movement to be sure, but they are not up to the cost of the watch.

Omega is making watches for timepiece enthusiasts. Rolex doesn't have to. 90+% of their watches are sold for one reason. ROLEX.

[The Joker]

.

[asadtiger]

8500 is a great movt...and I must add this is important not in that people buy for movts..you guys are right in that people buy the brand...but 8500 with its amazing accuracy is making Omega the brand that it was...so thats why 8500 is so important and will give its competition quiet a tough time, I think...because remember, Rolex became synonymous with durability due to its reliable movts, and thats what Omega are now building upon too...and ofcourse 8500 is absolutely amazing in all respects, so its a force to reckon with

[The GMT Master]

The four year guarantee the latest 8500s come with is a very strong selling point too!

[dsio]

Originally Posted by xjeeunitx

I can see Omega taking some Rolex customers but Rolex should not be worried as people will continue to follow and buy the brand.

Its going to be interesting how this fares in the years to come, especially as the buying power of asian markets continues to expand while that of the US shrinks. At present Rolex losing to Omega (and others) in China and other emerging markets.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/busines...nt_9617366.htm

The current Omega Constellation seems to be the Chinese equivalent of the Rolex Datejust, and if the American's aren't buying as many Datejusts...

[donq]

The whole James Bond tie in with Omega seems a bit low class to me. A movie tie in promotion is not in step with the "luxury" image Omega seems to cultivating. And after all the promotion more people still associate the Submariner with Bond than the SMP, and that with no support from Rolex!

[Deepsea Florida]

movement, shomevement......all these watches tell time.

The Rolex looks good, and the Omega is looking pretty good also.

[trilapis]

I think the whole thing goes down to exclusivity...hence my question: how much of the 8500 movement is based on the ETA mechanism? I read and read and read on the internet, i had long discussion with the dealer but it still isn't clear. and i think this is a crucial point: rolex makes a movement that is available in that watch and that watch only. omega is taking parts from fabrication lines and is part of a huge corporate group that owns swatch and several other brands. it's a bit like a porsche cayenne: it is a vw touareg with better finish...but still a vw. it goes back to even rolls royce ghost: a bmw 7 series with a different body. i think omega is in this territory. as for rolex, i think they are like a 911, a unique car that hasn't changed much over the last 40 years but it's still amazing.

Please feel free to challenge my point. i love both the submariner and the planet ocean, the only problem with the latter is this ETA movement that you can find in Gucci watches.

thank you.

[Rashid.bk]

based on means nothing. the 8500 movement is a totally independent from the ground up in-house movement.
now the 2500 is a reworked and rebuilt eta movement with all the improvements omega had to offer.
so the 8500 is comparable to and just as much "in-house" as the 3135, in many aspects I think it's better. it just needs to do one thing.....perform reliably for over a decade, then we can really do some comparing. for now it's just full of a lot of promise.

the eta movement found in a gucci is nothing, nothing like what can be found in an omega.


nice thread resurrection though........

[Perdu]

Omega and swatch keep gaining market share - the're taking it from someone., but I don't think Rolex will sit on its hands. - the 3135 can be improved and I'm sure Rolex will have some surprises in the coming years.