5167 Question

[The Argonaut]

Afternoon TRF,

What do many of the experienced hands on this site think is the current "market price" for a grey 5167? Before launching a broadside and advising the price is "whatever you're prepared to pay," "whatever the grey is selling the watch for," "5% more than last month," U.S. grey prices vary between $30k-$40K, with most landing around the $33-35k mark. I'm curious as to whether TRFers think the average grey 5167 is selling for less than the advertised prices, and how much negotiating room is present? I acknowledge that Greys are looking to push the price up by advertising them at higher prices. After all, if DSW sell 2-3 for $36k, then that's his price (and others to).

I've read some good posts on the PP Bubble, acquiring a 5167, etc, and am looking to get one this year. I've a broad strategy in mind to acquire one through an AD, but acknowledge that without the buying history, I need quite a bit of luck. I've a good relationship with a local PP AD, established through many and continuous visits to talk watches. Interestingly, the chap I talk to admits that buying a PP SS piece is not about buying power anymore, but which is clearly still a pretty relevant factor. His AD gets 2-4 5167s per year, and when one comes in, the senior manager and client advisers sit down and work out who gets it. He advised that the ADs prime concern is avoiding someone who will flip the watch, as they want to give it to a buyer who will really value it and buy into the PP brand--and this can be emotional as well as economic. When I asked what "flipping" actually means, he advised that someone who will ideally have the watch for a few years before moving it, and if moved within the first 6-12 months, the AD considers it flipped. He did state that if a buyer is a VVIP, exceptions can be made at the AD level but PP will scrutinize the subsequent sale of a PP SS piece by an AD to the same buyer within the same year (they had a VVIP ask for a second 5711 within a year, and the AD was advised the buyer had to wait 24 months to get the second one as he flipped the first one within two months.). I know from conversations with the AP boutique in Geneva and New York that AP does this with their 15202s (unless you're Tom Cruise giving them out to friends!).

Any thoughts?

Best,
TA

[cascavel]

Here's what I know, for certain, about the grey market price for the 5167/1A: two full set examples in excellent condition, lots 817 and 821, both with reserves which appeared to be $30K, did not sell. Which means no one was willing to pay $36K plus sales tax for them. A similar example at Christies sold for $25K plus sales tax. I cannot comment on the condition of that one because I did not personally examine it.

[DeeTee]

Naked $27-29
Early/polished ones $30-32
Newer/unpolished $35-37
Unworn $38-40

[locutus49]

Condition and age is critical. By age I mean when was it originally purchased. The new the more expensive, and the better condition the more expensive.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Here's what I know, for certain, about the grey market price for the 5167/1A: two full set examples in excellent condition, lots 817 and 821, both with reserves which appeared to be $30K, did not sell. Which means no one was willing to pay $36K plus sales tax for them. A similar example at Christies sold for $25K plus sales tax. I cannot comment on the condition of that one because I did not personally examine it.

Interesting. I do wonder whether many 5167s “actually” sell for $35K plus. I wonder how many buyers actually want the watch as opposed to being caught in the SS bubble, and who really want a 5711 and see the Aquanaut as a cheaper alternative.

The Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are qualitatively very different, and PP treats them differently I think.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by DeeTee

Naked $27-29
Early/polished ones $30-32
Newer/unpolished $35-37
Unworn $38-40

Interesting. Appreciate the insight.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Here's what I know, for certain, about the grey market price for the 5167/1A: two full set examples in excellent condition, lots 817 and 821, both with reserves which appeared to be $30K, did not sell. Which means no one was willing to pay $36K plus sales tax for them. A similar example at Christies sold for $25K plus sales tax. I cannot comment on the condition of that one because I did not personally examine it.

And, because I stink at proof reading my own posts: the two 5167/1A that passed were at Sotheby's in Dec 2019, the Christie's 5167/1A also Dec 2019.

[Erson]

Originally Posted by DeeTee

Naked $27-29
Early/polished ones $30-32
Newer/unpolished $35-37
Unworn $38-40

reference?