The Inconvenient Truth about the World's First Waterproof Watch

[LRF]

"The Inconvenient Truth about the World's First Waterproof Watch, the Story of Charles Depollier and his Waterproof Trench Watches of the Great War"



For years the writers in the watch industry, watch magazines, the most renowned auction houses in the world, major newspapers and online watch media outlets have been giving you incorrect information about the true origins of waterproof wrist watch technology. They could not have gotten this story more wrong by saying Rolex was the one who developed this technology in 1926 with the Oyster. Military records have always been considered the "holy grail" of documentation, the benchmark of evidence. There is simply no way to put a spin on the date stamped military documents I've discovered in the United States National Archives. How can Rolex possibly account for Depollier's watch being successfully independently tested for waterproof ability, approved by the 7 member U.S. Army Executive Board and purchased (10,000 units) by the U.S. government 8 YEARS before they released the 1926 Oyster? They can't. My allegiance is to horological history and giving credit to the individuals who actually changed the industry, not to perpetuating fairy tales and myths.



This book (341 pages) proves that Charles Leon Depollier truly created the world's first waterproof wrist watch with the 1918 Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch that did in fact feature a SCREW DOWN CROWN waterproof crown followed closely by the 1919 Waltham Depollier "THERMO" Waterproof Watch. The 4 different waterproof crown designs developed in the house of Depollier during the Great War years will be covered in detail. Evidence included is the complete trial transcript of the 1919 lawsuit between Charles Depollier vs Mortimer Golden. This is Charles Depollier's fascinating first hand account of how he developed waterproof wrist watch technology 8 years before Rolex in cooperation with high ranking officers of the United States Army Signal Corps Engineering & Research Division. Depollier's waterproof wrist watch case was independently tested in Washington D.C. by the United States National Bureau of Standards for its waterproof ability, it passed their tests with flying colors. The Bureau of Standard was America's first physical science laboratory, the proving grounds. All paper lawsuit exhibits from both parties are included, every page. Two official United States War Department reports corroborate Depollier's sworn court testimony. In one of these reports Two Star Major General George Squier informs the United States Secretary of War, Mr. Newton Baker, that the "watch could actually run for several weeks under water". Mr. Baker reported directly to President Woodrow Wilson. You will also read the correspondence of high ranking. U.S. Army officers discussing Depollier's waterproof wrist watch technology and how it would solve many of their problems in 1918. Also included are the Waltham Depollier trench watch advertisements and the non-waterproof Waltham Depollier military watches produced during the Great War era.



Now that this book has been published Rolex should remove their claim of creating the "world's first waterproof watch" with the 1926 Oyster from their webpage and marketing materials. It simply did not happen the way they tell the story.

[GB-man]

[brandrea]

Cue the Rolex legal crew

[Stan Cooper]

Listed by OP on ebay for only $36k.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234735939986

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

Listed by OP on ebay for only $36k.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234735939986

Outstanding detective work !

[Old Expat Beast]

Looks like an interesting book, but $100 seems a bit steep. Kindle edition in the works?

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Looks like an interesting book, but $100 seems a bit steep. Kindle edition in the works?

Thank you.

I'll consider an e-book version.

[bullies]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

Listed by OP on ebay for only $36k.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234735939986

And, being sold by the OP/author...
https://www.ebay.com/usr/lrf-antique...75.m3561.l2559

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by LRF

"The Inconvenient Truth about the World's First Waterproof Watch, the Story of Charles Depollier and his Waterproof Trench Watches of the Great War"



For years the writers in the watch industry, watch magazines, the most renowned auction houses in the world, major newspapers and online watch media outlets have been giving you incorrect information about the true origins of waterproof wrist watch technology. They could not have gotten this story more wrong by saying Rolex was the one who developed this technology in 1926 with the Oyster. Military records have always been considered the "holy grail" of documentation, the benchmark of evidence. There is simply no way to put a spin on the date stamped military documents I've discovered in the United States National Archives. How can Rolex possibly account for Depollier's watch being successfully independently tested for waterproof ability, approved by the 7 member U.S. Army Executive Board and purchased (10,000 units) by the U.S. government 8 YEARS before they released the 1926 Oyster? They can't. My allegiance is to horological history and giving credit to the individuals who actually changed the industry, not to perpetuating fairy tales and myths.



This book (341 pages) proves that Charles Leon Depollier truly created the world's first waterproof wrist watch with the 1918 Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch that did in fact feature a SCREW DOWN CROWN waterproof crown followed closely by the 1919 Waltham Depollier "THERMO" Waterproof Watch. The 4 different waterproof crown designs developed in the house of Depollier during the Great War years will be covered in detail. Evidence included is the complete trial transcript of the 1919 lawsuit between Charles Depollier vs Mortimer Golden. This is Charles Depollier's fascinating first hand account of how he developed waterproof wrist watch technology 8 years before Rolex in cooperation with high ranking officers of the United States Army Signal Corps Engineering & Research Division. Depollier's waterproof wrist watch case was independently tested in Washington D.C. by the United States National Bureau of Standards for its waterproof ability, it passed their tests with flying colors. The Bureau of Standard was America's first physical science laboratory, the proving grounds. All paper lawsuit exhibits from both parties are included, every page. Two official United States War Department reports corroborate Depollier's sworn court testimony. In one of these reports Two Star Major General George Squier informs the United States Secretary of War, Mr. Newton Baker, that the "watch could actually run for several weeks under water". Mr. Baker reported directly to President Woodrow Wilson. You will also read the correspondence of high ranking. U.S. Army officers discussing Depollier's waterproof wrist watch technology and how it would solve many of their problems in 1918. Also included are the Waltham Depollier trench watch advertisements and the non-waterproof Waltham Depollier military watches produced during the Great War era.



Now that this book has been published Rolex should remove their claim of creating the "world's first waterproof watch" with the 1926 Oyster from their webpage and marketing materials. It simply did not happen the way they tell the story.

Lol. Have you ever been in the military? Can’t speak of other countries, but the US military is horrible at keeping records!

Doesn’t mean your research didn’t turn up good information. There was a time when I worked on a project for a U.S. Army division trying to catalog combat information for their many deployments during the GWOT and it was a mess.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by BLACKHORSE 6

Lol. Have you ever been in the military? Can’t speak of other countries, but the US military is horrible at keeping records!

Doesn’t mean your research didn’t turn up good information. There was a time when I worked on a project for a U.S. Army division trying to catalog combat information for their many deployments during the GWOT and it was a mess.

The hardest obstacle to overcome was not the quality of the records it was actually being able to find them in the National Archives after figuring out who actually wrote them.

I knew what I was looking for but the records were not where they were suppose to be. The files were never put back in the proper boxes. They were put in a source material file for two separate official War Department reports in 1919. It took YEARS to track them down.

I live in Texas but the records are all over the country, not just in DC. Had to pay professional researchers by the hour to search through mountains of files page by page after I told them which boxes to search.

But, in the end I hit the jackpot, aka the "smoking gun" War Department documents/records that prove Rolex was not the world's first waterproof watch as they have claimed for the past 96 years.

[subtona]

History written by the winners…no surprise

Another monument we can tear down.

All in the pursuit of truth?

[powerfunk]

Does Rolex really claim to have the first waterproof wristwatch? I thought they only claim to have the first *automatic* waterproof wristwatch. The Oyster wasn't even Rolex's first waterproof wristwatch; the hermetic watches of 1922 are well-known.

Regardless an American screwdown crown in 1918 is news to me; thanks for sharing!

[LRF]

Originally Posted by subtona

History written by the winners…no surprise

Another monument we can tear down.

All in the pursuit of truth?

It most certainly is written by the winners, until somebody like me comes along and exposes how this technology was actually developed and by who.

One should not claim to have done something that one did not do, this can be a learning moment for them.

I'm sure "World's Third Waterproof Watch" will still look nice on the cake when Rolex celebrates the 100 anniversary of the Oyster in 2026.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Does Rolex really claim to have the first waterproof wristwatch? I thought they only claim to have the first *automatic* waterproof wristwatch. The Oyster wasn't even Rolex's first waterproof wristwatch; the hermetic watches of 1922 are well-known.

Regardless an American screwdown crown in 1918 is news to me; thanks for sharing!

You're welcome!

This screen shot was captured on the Rolex website as of this morning.



The 1922 Submarine was a design that ultimately would not work, case inside of a case technology was archaic when it was originally released. Rolex admits this on their website too.

[LRF]

Rolex didn't invent the first automatic watch either, that would be John Harwood.

[powerfunk]

Wow that's just egregiously untrue; they should get on that. First commercially successful waterproof watch maybe.

Originally Posted by LRF

Rolex didn't invent the first automatic watch either, that would be John Harwood.

Indeed! For posterity here's the ad that Rolex had to take out to acknowledge Harwood after Harwood successfully sued Rolex over the "first automatic" lie:



Hillary's Oyster never reached the summit and Rolex advertising cleverly lies-by-omission about that to this day. Rolex has always been a bit sneaky.

[LRF]

Agreed! Very untrue.

But how many watches would one have to sell in order for it to be "commercially successful"?

Depollier sold at least 10,000 (possibly more) to the United States War Department in 1918.

These watches were also available to the general public at Waltham Depollier ADs around the world.

[LRF]

Where do you think Hans got the idea for the Rolex/Everest advertisements?

The Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch flew higher and at more extreme temperatures 14 years earlier.

[LRF]

How about the fishbowl?

Seems like Hans couldn't come up with an original idea for a watch or a marketing campaign.

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by LRF

Depollier sold at least 10,000 (possibly more) to the United States War Department in 1918.

Do you think 10k units were in fact delivered? It seems like there should be more "around" if there were that many. Maybe I'm just not looking for them though!

[brandrea]

Interesting work Stan, thanks for bringing this to the forum.

Hope to see a kindle version as well

[LRF]

Yes, they were delivered.

And when I said "possibly more" I have a letter signed by Brigadier General McKinzie Saltsman of the U.S. Army dated December 30, 1918.

In this letter he asks for an additional 5,000 but I could not confirm that this happened, could not find a War Department contract for that so I kept it at 10,000.

When they switched over to the double screw down crown just before the USA entered WWII it is possible that the 20 year old waterproof watches were discarded as size 3/0s movements were not being made any longer. They stopped size 3/0s in 1933, maybe 1934, I believe.

[z_charger]

Originally Posted by BLACKHORSE 6

Lol. Have you ever been in the military? Can’t speak of other countries, but the US military is horrible at keeping records!

Doesn’t mean your research didn’t turn up good information. There was a time when I worked on a project for a U.S. Army division trying to catalog combat information for their many deployments during the GWOT and it was a mess.

That’s actually a misinformed statement. Having accessed records at the national archives and multiple war colleges I can say with certainty the US Military keeps fantastic records. One of many issues is access and cataloguing. There is so much info and access to it isn’t easy. Combine that with digitizing older records and you can see why people think our military can’t keep good records. Just because you can’t find it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Back on topic, interesting find OP. I would be interested in first hand source material. How did you come by it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Old Expat Beast]

The advertisement examples above are very interesting. Did you ask Rolex for a comment for your book? Even a "no comment" response, or no response at all, would be interesting, too.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

For posterity here's the ad that Rolex had to take out to acknowledge Harwood after Harwood successfully sued Rolex over the "first automatic" lie:



Hillary's Oyster never reached the summit and Rolex advertising cleverly lies-by-omission about that to this day. Rolex has always been a bit sneaky.

Mercedes Gleitze didn't complete that much-advertised cross-channel swim, either

[LRF]

Originally Posted by z_charger

That’s actually a misinformed statement. Having accessed records at the national archives and multiple war colleges I can say with certainty the US Military keeps fantastic records. One of many issues is access and cataloguing. There is so much info and access to it isn’t easy. Combine that with digitizing older records and you can see why people think our military can’t keep good records. Just because you can’t find it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Back on topic, interesting find OP. I would be interested in first hand source material. How did you come by it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did I come by the source materials for the reports?

In 1919 two annual reports were written for the year 1918.

"The Report of The Chief Signal Officer to the Secretary of War"

(Two Star Major General Squier's report to the Secretary of War, Mr. Newton Baker)

"America's Munitions 1917 - 1918 Report of Benedict Crowell The Assistant Secretary of War, Director of Munitions"

(Benedict wrote this report to Newton)

None of the waterproof watch files I was looking for where they were suppose to be. The files weren't missing but the entire box they were housed in was missing making things 100X more difficult.

I read the two reports mentioned above several years ago and then a few more clues clicked in my head. I started thinking that there HAD to be some sort of "source material files" for these two official government reports. Where did THEY gather all of this information from? Took me about 6 more months to figure that out. And like I mentioned above I hired professional researchers (record pullers) at the Archives to start searching thru boxes page by page. After striking out MANY times we FINALLY hit the jackpot! I found the source material files and my jaw hit the floor when I started reading. How all of this happened is right there in black and white.

It's like doing a 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle. The beginning is tough but when you start to see what the picture will look like MUCH better research decisions can be made.

Every single page was put in the book, NOT one page was omitted.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The advertisement examples above are very interesting. Did you ask Rolex for a comment for your book? Even a "no comment" response, or no response at all, would be interesting, too.

Tried, thru email but never got a response.

Tried thru SM, my comments were ignored.

Rolex pretty much makes it impossible to speak with anybody, very secretive company.

I know others who have tried as well, no direct answers were given, just a response that said "we are looking into it" and then nothing.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by z_charger

That’s actually a misinformed statement. Having accessed records at the national archives and multiple war colleges I can say with certainty the US Military keeps fantastic records. One of many issues is access and cataloguing. There is so much info and access to it isn’t easy. Combine that with digitizing older records and you can see why people think our military can’t keep good records. Just because you can’t find it doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Back on topic, interesting find OP. I would be interested in first hand source material. How did you come by it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Plus, these records get moved around the country. Everything is NOT housed in Washington DC. There are many other records depots around the country. Boxes get misplaced, accidently shipped to other depots, records are put into source material files for other reports and so on. I'm SO glad I did not give up! Took me almost 15 YEARS of research but the job got done and the book has been published.

[Doood]

Fascinating, OP.

[enjoythemusic]

Very interesting, and we know history is not always as we're told.