Guidance on vintage blue Tudor 9411/0 Snowflake

[Tobiasr]

Hello vintage Tudor/Rolex cognoscendi,
I am looking to your guidance on the authenticity of a vintage Tudor snowflake 9411/0 that I am considering buying. I think it is very nice, but I am not sure on
a) the model number between the lugs - looks a bit "handwritten", but I recognize this problem is with many vintage Tudors.
b) the movement. Have not seen such a rotor on such a Tudor.
Perhaps you have other observations too.

Thank you in advance!
Tobias

[TuRo]

Not keen on case :

9411/0 should have to help other buyers too:

A) An Isosceles (equal length side) right angle triangle in the upper part of the 4. This is different lengths.

B) The slash should be at firm 45° , this one is at about 30-33°

Loads of other things too....

Here's one to compare - page 11/16 of photos

Tudor Submariner
£11,804
https://chrono24.app/tudor/tudor-sub...GB&SETCURR=GBP
B) The

[antrolexsub]

It’s no good. Movement is a standard eta, hands are fake, insert is fake, case is fake etc.

[996marty]

Lots of things aren’t quite right
Hand’s don’t look right
Looking at your photos it looks like a dealer selling it with the watches in the background and if so maybe they should know better

[Tobiasr]

Thank you all - very very helpful - yes this is from a dealer, that potentially should know better...

[TuRo]

Most Welcome - That's what we are here for...and Antrolex knows his onions, and others Marty996 etc who input too also and...occasionally a pearl or two from me...

But Hmmm ...A dealer...that's really not splendid at all, as this isn't a close call fake....it's off-the-chart-bad.

Care to name the dealer pls ? Munich? I know many dealers/collectors there.

[linesiders]

Lots of right calls in this thread from the people that have posted. The engravings are wrong as TuRo states (plus has the same caseback fonts we discussed two weeks ago) , the hand sizes incorrect as per Marty, the movement is a cleaned up eta as per Antrolexsub.

Other tells: those are pretty thick crown guards but somebody mainly worked them and did a decent enough job that some people will be fooled. I don't like the lug profile, and is that a black dial with a blue insert? There's a couple font issues on the dial.

Well done everyone

[996marty]

I forgot to mention the cyclops it looks like it was put on in the dark

[Tobiasr]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Most Welcome - That's what we are here for...and Antrolex knows his onions, and others Marty996 etc who input too also and...occasionally a pearl or two from me...

But Hmmm ...A dealer...that's really not splendid at all, as this isn't a close call fake....it's off-the-chart-bad.

Care to name the dealer pls ? Munich? I know many dealers/collectors there.

That was a Italian dealer, from Milano, on the Munich watch fair, early February. I can share the name in a private message.

[Dom9]

The scary thing is that the movement engraving is getting good now (or they got a correct rotor and bridge). It's usually just the generic Black Bay replica rotor on a standard ETA.

You can even get an ETA2824 off the shelf with a 'gold' KIF assembly now, which means post-Snowflake (e.g. 79090) models are going to get more and more difficult to assess at a glance.

Snowflakes/2784s will remain easier, I suspect, as I don't think there is a big aftermarket for 2784 movements.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Tobiasr

Thank you all - very very helpful - yes this is from a dealer, that potentially should know better...

Lots of dealers don’t mind selling fakes these days…..buyer beware

[996marty]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Lots of dealers don’t mind selling fakes these days…..buyer beware

For me anyone selling something that they know isn’t correct and trying to pass it off as original should be flogged, it’s a shameful act. Especially a dealer that should be able to pick a good one from a bad one and that particular watch was a shocker.

[CarlOver]

The knowledge base on this forum is incredible. I’m always impressed when when a member looks at a watch and calls out numerous issues, service oarts or straight up fake parts.