32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

So if your watch is keeping great time and a machine says it has low amplitude you're going to... sell it? Service it? What's the benefit of having a machine even tell you? It's much more likely the machine is wrong, you'd service a perfectly good watch and it could come back running worse than before if it were already keeping good time and you're out $ and time.

OP41 with the 3230

The thing is, that the only entity that's probably able to service a 32xx equiped watch, which one suspects is running lower amplitudes than is normally accepted is going to be an RSC.
In that event, they will assess the performance of the movement on their own terms and then make a determination accordingly as to how to proceed.
In Rolex we must trust.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

I used an extremely low tech/real world approach to precision.

I just checked my watch to my computer's clock at about the same time each day and wrote down in an Excel spreadsheet what the + or - was.

I'd rest the watch in a few different positions and keep track of them in the same way.

I found very consistent results after a month of collecting the data.

It gains about 1 second a day dial up, and loses 1 second a day crown up.

Now I use those 2 resting methods each night when I take it off depending on it's current accuracy.

It keeps the watch within +1/-1 second from accurate consistently.

Last time I set the watch was 3-4 weeks ago after it ran out of power and it's +.5 seconds fast as of right now and that's generally where it sits.

My advice would be to skip the machines and just take real world data samples. Find out how your individual watch reacts to resting position. See if you can correct inaccuracy with resting position. If you can't, it probably needs a service.

A great old school approach
The KISS principal in practice where one simply enjoys their watch and manages it in a proficient manner based on common sense.
Sometimes it doesn't pay to pick things apart too much and over analyse

Of course, some people may enjoy disecting every aspect of something until they kill it, and so be it.

[thenewrick]

I think there's 2 different objectives going on here.

1 is to have a precise watch and the other is to get numbers to show up on a machine that make someone happy.

Reminds me of dyno numbers in the car world. Doesn't matter how powerful or how fast the car is, the dyno numbers are what matter. My car had low dyno numbers but was hella fast because the machines were only a tool to help understand things but they weren't the end goal.

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Welcome Andy!

As I wrote already, the 3235 has a lift angle of 53 degrees, not 52.

It would be good if you can follow the following procedure with your timegrapher:

(1) Full caliber winding.
(2) Place watch in DU position onto the microphone.
(3) Wait 15 minutes to stabilize, then measure.
(4) Change position to 6U, wait 3 min, then measure.
(5) Continue with 9U, 3U, DD.
(6) Compile your results in a simple table.
(7) Use the higher sensitivity mode (99.9 instead of 999) of your Weishi 1900.
(8) If you mount the watch differently (crown close to the microphone) then you have a better transmission of movement sound to the microphone.

I suggest you read the entire thread, ok it's very long; there is already a lot of data and useful information as well as some comparisons between watches.

If you own more 32xx or 31xx watches, please go ahead and also post their results here.

Thanks for this. As a new owner of a Weishi 1900 and being the ocd type I love this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

IMO, there's no way that one RSC us doing anything different than any other, parts or procedure-wise. And in the US, the only two potions for RSC are Dallas and NYC.

Thank you for your replyy.

I think that although your watch has a full service at the RSC in Dallas I thik it was possibly at a "Transitional" time.

It is known that the oiling method and oils were changed at some time.
It is also known that a part was found to be needed to be changed. it had wear even after such a short time.

This was actioned in 2019 ... Around the time your watch was serviced at the RSC in Dallas.

There is a difference between the RSC's around the world for sure. Geneva (the home of Rolex) seems to be the best and the most upto date which is hardly surprising. It takes a little while for their discoveries and instructions to filter down to all the RSC's around the globe. It also takes a while for replacement parts to be made and distributed.

IMHO, I would say have another service. A full service. I would even ask about the lubrication and change of a wheel with a pin that shows wear and needs to be changed. I think Its something to do with the second hand.

Before your watch goes in get a full set of readings on the timekeeping and also on its return.

[Dennisoul]

First set of results for my 126334 DJ41…I bought it brand new from an AD in August 2017 so is one of the early DJ41s…it’s not been serviced, and haven’t had any problems that I can see. I did notice that when I first got it in 2017 it would run at around -2.5sd when fully wound then if I just wore it every day without winding it, that improved to -1sd after about 15 days. Without winding it after the 15days I did let it run to stop, it kept running for 73 hours. Don’t have any real data other than that from 2017….I’ve done another test on the Weishi 1900 using the set up as recommended by you guys.
I wore it to my work this morning and gave it a full wind when I got home, so it’s fully wound for this test…


Calibre 3235
Fully wound
LA - 53
Sensitivity- 99.9
4 second period
15 mins initial rest for DU
3 mins rest for each position before starting each check.
3 mins run check for each position.
Hope you can read my scrawl in this wee table.
I’ve left the 126334 in DU position and won’t touch it till I do another test tomorrow with out winding it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tla]

I just got a hold of a 32xx movement. Briefly browsing this thread and I’m already overwhelmed by the technical details.

How can I easily check mine is working within the expected error? I don’t got one of these fancy machines to measure the beats

[Dennisoul]

Originally Posted by tla

I just got a hold of a 32xx movement. Briefly browsing this thread and I’m already overwhelmed by the technical details.

How can I easily check mine is working within the expected error? I don’t got one of these fancy machines to measure the beats

Hi…this was the test that was put up earlier in the thread that didn’t require any equipment …hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Thank you for your replyy.

I think that although your watch has a full service at the RSC in Dallas I thik it was possibly at a "Transitional" time.

It is known that the oiling method and oils were changed at some time.
It is also known that a part was found to be needed to be changed. it had wear even after such a short time.

This was actioned in 2019 ... Around the time your watch was serviced at the RSC in Dallas.

There is a difference between the RSC's around the world for sure. Geneva (the home of Rolex) seems to be the best and the most upto date which is hardly surprising. It takes a little while for their discoveries and instructions to filter down to all the RSC's around the globe. It also takes a while for replacement parts to be made and distributed.

IMHO, I would say have another service. A full service. I would even ask about the lubrication and change of a wheel with a pin that shows wear and needs to be changed. I think Its something to do with the second hand.

Before your watch goes in get a full set of readings on the timekeeping and also on its return.

A certain person here, who works at Geneva RCS dong watch services (including 3235s) has stated repeatedly that there has been no change in the service manuals or methods, and no change in the parts used at service.

Specifically, the seconds wheel pivot (which is the part to which you're referring, I believe) has not changed, nor has the wheel, or the lubrication requirements.

I'm not the only guy to send his watch back and have it fixed, only to go south again.

But yeah, you're right, I will probably send it in when the warranty is almost out (2 years). If it's got a problem then, otherwise, it's gonna be on me.

Working well as of now.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

A certain person here, who works at Geneva RCS dong watch services
Working well as of now.

Hi,

There seems to be some sort of difference between RSC's.

I, myself ONLY use RSC's to do work on my watches and I only go direct. I choose not to go via an AD as i can specify more easily what I want and what I don't want to happen (Eg No polishing).

There appears to be a slight difference between the RSC in the UK and the Service centre at Rolex HQ in Geneva.

There has been a change in the 3235 movement since it's launch. It is not like software where you get 3235.1.4 etc. Rolex stick to the original number.

The early movements showed problems of loss of time very frequently. Mid 2019 the problem seemed to just disappear.

A conclusion, which must NOT be drawn, could be that something had changed in production.

If that was the case then the RSC's (& ONLY the RSC's not watchmakers) would get the data to change things.

If the instruction to change anything was made for example on Jan 1st It would take a few months before it would, or could, be actioned. Part availability is a factor here.

The Watchmaker you are referring to ... Is he a Rolex trained and authorised Rolex watchmaker or is he a watchmaker in one of the RSC centres. I did not recognise the name you posted ... "Geneva RCS dong watch services".

There is ONE person on this forum who has a 32xx movement that has been serviced at the RSC in Geneva ... Things got fixed then and it was serviced after Mid 2019.

This is all partially why we are doing so much measuring and comparing of watches. Rolex just dont say anything ever. Can we get to the bottom of whats what ... I think we will and I think we are well on the way to doing it.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

Hi…this was the test that was put up earlier in the thread that didn’t require any equipment …hope this helps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is an app for the iPhone called WatchTracker. Thats a very simple app to use and does give some information.

It does not however give Beat errors or Amplitude which is important.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by tla

I just got a hold of a 32xx movement. Briefly browsing this thread and I’m already overwhelmed by the technical details.

How can I easily check mine is working within the expected error? I don’t got one of these fancy machines to measure the beats

Dont be overwhelmed.

Its all much simpler than you think.

Not having a Weishi or Witschi timing device is not a problem. Not everybody has by any count.

A really good (& Fun) app for an iPhone is WatchTracker. Take a look I juse it along side my timing machine.

[Dennisoul]

Saxo3 can’t send you a message, as your message limit has been reached apparently…so instead of a range for s/d rate…..just a single number required?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

…so instead of a range for s/d rate…..just a single number required?

Yes.

[Dennisoul]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Yes.

Cool…I also wrote the following numbers what each position settled on consistently for the later part of each of the checks

DU … +1 sd
6U …+1.1 sd
9U … -4 sd
DD … +1.1 sd
3U…-0.9 sd


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

Cool…I also wrote the following numbers what each position settled on consistently for the later part of each of the checks

DU … +1 sd
6U …+1.1 sd
9U … -4 sd
DD … +1.1 sd
3U…-0.9 sd

Your watch after full winding (t = 0):
Xrate= -0.3 s/d is perfect
Xamplitude (horizontal) = 255 degrees
Xamplitude (vertical) = 219 degrees

Ref. 126334, DJ41 (3235), purchase date 08/2017

[Dennisoul]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Your watch after full winding (t = 0):
Xrate= -0.3 s/d is perfect
Xamplitude (horizontal) = 255 degrees
Xamplitude (vertical) = 219 degrees

Ref. 126334, DJ41 (3235), purchase date 08/2017

Cheers Saxo3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

Cheers Saxo3

Andy,
What's next for you to measure.

I measured the power reserve in all 5 positions - One by one.

For that the procedure is almost the same but a few little add ons ..

Set your watch to the exact time and make a note of it.
Full wind.
Onto the Weishi for the first position (DU).
Let it settle for 3 mins and take a reading.
Then take readings as often as you can until the PR runs out.
Make a note of the stop time.
The difference is the power reserve time
The readings taken during the period will show on a graph (ask saxo33 nicely and he will work his magic).
These readings show how your watch behaves for that position.
Go to the next position and start all over again.

As soon as you have started give us a copy of your first recordings so we can ensure all is OK and you dont waste a load of time.

[Dennisoul]

Hi Charles …I’ll just be doing how it’s running measurements till it stops …I’ll get a good idea of power reserve after this.
My next reading will be today, can’t do 24 hours be nearer 26hours….Will then do 48 hours test….that’ll be it for me, hopefully the results will help your data search


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HogwldFLTR]

I just purchased a watch with 3230 movement. My trial will be less stringent; I'll see if it behaves during normal use. If it has acceptable accuracy and precision it will have worked well; if not it will have had a problem. I'll be wearing if for a month starting in a couple of weeks.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I just purchased a watch with 3230 movement. My trial will be less stringent; I'll see if it behaves during normal use. If it has acceptable accuracy and precision it will have worked well; if not it will have had a problem. I'll be wearing if for a month starting in a couple of weeks.

Congratulations!

I'm confident that you will enjoy it without need of any timegrapher or WatchTracker app.

The 3230 (no-date version of 3235) is in the Submariner (124060), OP36 (126000), OP41 (124300), and Explorer (124270, 124273).

Which Ref. did you purchase?

[TheVTCGuy]

For what it’s worth.... My 126610 is about eight months old. I don’t have any time-checking equipment or anything else, but did a (very) informal test during the month of May. I set it on May 1 and checked it against internet time May 31. Just by the eye-test, it was 45 seconds slow. This equates to about 1.5 seconds slow per day, and is consistent with other checks I have conducted.

Losing 1.5 seconds a day for an automatic watch is (by far) an incredible achievement, and I am more then satisfied with this result.

[Dennisoul]

Here’s my 24 hour test after yesterday’s full wind, not been touched since…all protocols followed…small spread sheet as requested…I’ll do another test in 48 hours…watch will be unwound and untouched till then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Ref. 126334, DJ41 (3235), purchase date 08/2017
24 hours after full winding:
Xrate = -1.5 s/d
Xamplitude (horizontal) = 230 degrees
Xamplitude (vertical) = 187 degrees

[Dennisoul]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Ref. 126334, DJ41 (3235), purchase date 08/2017

24 hours after full winding:



Xrate = -1.5 s/d

Xamplitude (horizontal) = 230 degrees

Xamplitude (vertical) = 187 degrees

Cheers thank you


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dennisoul

I’ll do another test in 48 hours…

[Dennisoul]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Meant at 48 hours……in 24 hours time


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Congratulations!

I'm confident that you will enjoy it without need of any timegrapher or WatchTracker app.

The 3230 (no-date version of 3235) is in the Submariner (124060), OP36 (126000), OP41 (124300), and Explorer (124270, 124273).

Which Ref. did you purchase?

Thanks!!!!124300 a couple of weeks ago to be worn starting on Father's Day (a gift from my wife for Father's Day and my Birthday which are both the same week).

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Hi,

There seems to be some sort of difference between RSC's.

I, myself ONLY use RSC's to do work on my watches and I only go direct. I choose not to go via an AD as i can specify more easily what I want and what I don't want to happen (Eg No polishing).

There appears to be a slight difference between the RSC in the UK and the Service centre at Rolex HQ in Geneva.

There has been a change in the 3235 movement since it's launch. It is not like software where you get 3235.1.4 etc. Rolex stick to the original number.

The early movements showed problems of loss of time very frequently. Mid 2019 the problem seemed to just disappear.

A conclusion, which must NOT be drawn, could be that something had changed in production.

If that was the case then the RSC's (& ONLY the RSC's not watchmakers) would get the data to change things.

If the instruction to change anything was made for example on Jan 1st It would take a few months before it would, or could, be actioned. Part availability is a factor here.

The Watchmaker you are referring to ... Is he a Rolex trained and authorised Rolex watchmaker or is he a watchmaker in one of the RSC centres. I did not recognise the name you posted ... "Geneva RCS dong watch services".

There is ONE person on this forum who has a 32xx movement that has been serviced at the RSC in Geneva ... Things got fixed then and it was serviced after Mid 2019.

This is all partially why we are doing so much measuring and comparing of watches. Rolex just dont say anything ever. Can we get to the bottom of whats what ... I think we will and I think we are well on the way to doing it.

Charles, so I'm clear:

My watch went to The RSC at Dallas. Not just a watchmaker. It received a full service.

The watchmaker I referenced (not by name out of respect, but you can read what he's posted here) is employed AT the Geneva RSC to service watches, including the 3235.

He says there have been no changes to anything done at the time of service.
Parts or procedures.
I believe him.

And also, Mine was fixed by Dallas RSC, and then went to shit again after solid wear for 4 months or so. They all get fixed, until they break again.
Same reason they work when Rolex tests them. Cause they're freshly built.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

Charles, so I'm clear:

My watch went to The RSC at Dallas. Not just a watchmaker. It received a full service.

The watchmaker I referenced (not by name out of respect, but you can read what he's posted here) is employed AT the Geneva RSC to service watches, including the 3235.

He says there have been no changes to anything done at the time of service.
Parts or procedures.
I believe him.

And also, Mine was fixed by Dallas RSC, and then went to shit again after solid wear for 4 months or so. They all get fixed, until they break again.
Same reason they work when Rolex tests them. Cause they're freshly built.

A bit like European cars in my part of the world.
They're great whilst they're still in warranty.

In Rolex we trust