Model number and serial number don't add up....

[Dantropez]

Hi everyone, I have a rolex submariner 16800 which was supposedly released in 1979. But my serial number is 441#### which is apparently 1977, how can this be if the serial number is earlier than the watch was actually released? I'm confused, would love to hear your opinions.

[Hub6152]

Originally Posted by Dantropez

Hi everyone, I have a rolex submariner 16800 which was supposedly released in 1979. But my serial number is 441#### which is apparently 1977, how can this be if the serial number is earlier than the watch was actually released? I'm confused, would love to hear your opinions.

Serial number relative to year of manufacture isn’t always 100%. A couple of years out is meaningless.

[Oyster Perp]

It was actually released in 1977 (running until 1987 and being replaced by shortlived 168000 in 904L) and is considered the 'transitional' sub because of its inclusion of old stuff with new stuff not least of which was a high beat movement and sapphire crystal as opposed to plexi.
There are many models and their respective years lists available on the internet which are incorrect. I suppose someone writes it wrong and it then starts to pass into folklore with its many copies.

[linesiders]

16800 should not have a 4mil serial. I believe 4,4xx serial numbers are Rolex Service Cases in instances where the case has been replaced by Rolex.

Get some clear and legible engravings photos of the serial and the ref so we can look, as well as clear images of the rest of the watch.

How long have you owned this?

[Old Expat Beast]

Yeah, a 4,4 mill serial indicates a service replacement case.

[Dantropez]

The serial model number and serial numbers are definitely correct. The watch is currently getting serviced at Steven Hale and they are included in the description of the watch in the quote I received.
The serial number date lists on the net don't mention that this serial number is a replacement, very interesting. Why are the replaced, Is it because of damage that cannot be repaired or do rolex just replace anything with more that a minor scratch?

[Old Expat Beast]

Cases have to be quite badly damaged before Rolex will replace. Basically damage that can't be polished out or otherwise fixed while maintaining the original shape.

[Dan S]

I think that cases are often replaced if the sealing surfaces are damaged (e.g. pitted/corroded) in a way that compromises the water resistance. As noted, a 4.4M serial indicates a service replacement case. If you google, you will find a lot of information on this, and occasionally there is a footnote in a serial number chart. But keep in mind that those charts are just things that people invent or copy from other websites, they are not standardized or official.

[ianmcg]

Given the white gold surrounds it's a later version. Earlier models had matt dials so it's early to mid 80s and around 8m serial number originally.



ian

[Dantropez]

I'm guessing that this effects the desirability of the watch and price? Everything is rolex so hope its not considered a "frankenstein" watch now..

[Dantropez]

This is so confusing. Probably won't know 100%!

[ianmcg]

We do know 100% that white gold index markers on the dial didn’t come until much much later than 4m serial.

Even the very last red 1680s are high 3.9m and then there’s all the white 1680s which go up to over 6m (with none between 4.4 and 5m) so the very earliest 16800 in existence is above that.

Yes there are plenty of low 4m watches (eg lots of Daytona’s and the earliest white 1680s but anything around 4.4 up to 5 is a service case.



Ian

[1665fan]

Service case….

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Dantropez

This is so confusing. Probably won't know 100%!

It's not confusing.

Yes, a 4xxxxxx is possible, but it is well known that 44xxxxx serials are service replacements, not regular production.

[stevedssd]

Originally Posted by ianmcg

We do know 100% that white gold index markers on the dial didn’t come until much much later than 4m serial.

Even the very last red 1680s are high 3.9m and then there’s all the white 1680s which go up to over 6m (with none between 4.4 and 5m) so the very earliest 16800 in existence is above that.

Yes there are plenty of low 4m watches (eg lots of Daytona’s and the earliest white 1680s but anything around 4.4 up to 5 is a service case.



Ian

Yes agree. Here's a list of White 1680's collated over the years, none in the 4.4 to 5m range and the last on the list is 6.15m
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=754223

As said by several, 4.4m would be a service case.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Tools

It's not confusing.

Yes, a 4xxxxxx is possible, but it is well known that 44xxxxx serials are service replacements, not regular production.

Yes - agree that this is the right answer for the OP.

So, OP:
you have a 16800 with a midcase that’s newer than it’s caseback. Have Hale shoot some photos of the caseback to know the approximate age of your movement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Dantropez]

Yeah good idea, I'll email them to take a pic. Thanks for all the replies! Glad I joined the forum.

[Dan S]

Not sure you'll get much info from the case-back.