Is it rude, unrealistic or both?

[amphr1]

I got to be honest, I was kind of expecting to get flamed in this thread. But almost everyone has been helpful. I really appreciate that.

I agree C24 is not a great place to buy or sell, but they do a good job as a website, especially the My Collection. I guess it makes you feel good thinking your collection is worth $$$$ when it's actually worth $$$ haha

[inadeje]

C24 is a good barometer of the market, but it is vitally important to note that watches outside of the U.S. usually list and sell for more than stateside. This has been the case for decades, probably because there’s appreciably more stock in the U.S. and other factors like the customary +20% VAT on new watches over there in the EU.

As one person already replied, C24 is usually between 6-10% higher than what are essentially private sales on this and other direct-to-buyer forums where C24 commissions are eradicated. Furthermore, many overlook that even though stateside is usually less expensive across the board, dealers in Europe know that shipped watches into Europe usually get hit with 20-25% tax (VAT + import duties).

So yes, you will note the disparity when comparing C24 and say the recommended sellers on this forum, but the reasons are purely economics and not a good comparison of true watch values.

[Laostuh]

If you don't ask, the answer is always no.

[bob sims]

Originally Posted by deuxani

What you can do with professional dealers is approach them outside of Chrono24 (most of them have a phone number, email or link to their website) and propose a 5% discount for buying outside of Chrono24. In some cases you can get even a couple percent more. But 20%? That’s a bit steep. But it never hurts to try. It’s definitely not rude. You say 20%, they say 5%, you say 10%, they say 7%, shake hands and both are happy

A good way to get burned.

[Gab27]

It's fair to make any offer you want, but the general mindset among sellers seems to be that the Daytona will continue to increase in price. Consequently, they may not be willing to do a discount. A seller that is not extremely well established and immediately agrees to a 20% discount off that bat could potentially be a red flag, as well.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by amphora001

I agree C24 is not a great place to buy or sell, but they do a good job as a website, especially the My Collection.

I have my watches set up in a C24 Watch Collection. But I don't regard the price ranges quoted by C24 to necessarily be realistic. What's more helpful are the trends and differences. Having said that, I recently had a 2018 116610LV appraised for insurance and my AD came up with a number close to what C24 thinks it is worth.

I have bought two Rolex watches grey. My AD has supplied the bulk of my Rolex collection. I found C24 useful for scoping potential sellers. The two sellers I ended up using for my grey purchases both had good reputations and the negotiations were conducted outside C24. Although the C24 Escrow (or whatever it is) facility may be useful to some buyers, I think that if I'm buying an expensive watch knowing I can fall back on a conflict resolution system if it goes wrong, then I probably shouldn't buying it.

[Brny11]

From my experience…

MSRP OF 10k for example. Grey(i.e. DAVIDSW) sells for 20k, Chrono24 values as 19-22ish, you will maybe get a few hundred off from top greys, but if one sells private on their own, the buyer pool is WAYYYY smaller and no benefit for someone to get it from you or me for 16-19 when they can buy from trusted seller for a little more. Sooo…

MSRP: 10
Grey: 20
Grey will pay you max 13-16 to buy your watch
Private sale 14-17 and a whole lot of risk so might as well just sell it to grey for small hit.

Above pretty much ensures that price at the grey asking of 20, or if lucky, 19.5ish.

You can do better on a trade but not much budge lately.

[joli160]

If you offer 20% below you probably don’t get an answer and will be considered wasting their time.
No answer is also an answer though, just try and good luck

[Polar Bear]

I'd be surprised if Grey Dealers have 20% worth of margin in a Daytona
Even if they are getting them direct from ADs, whatever margin they have in the Daytona would be required to cover the loss they'll eventually take on all the Lady DJs and Cellini they had to bundle it with

[XFi1382]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I'd be surprised if Grey Dealers have 20% worth of margin in a Daytona
Even if they are getting them direct from ADs, whatever margin they have in the Daytona would be required to cover the loss they'll eventually take on all the Lady DJs and Cellini they had to bundle it with

This... from what I hear their margins are closer to 10%.

That doesn't mean that prices aren't kept artificially high.

- There is more demand than supply for hot watches
- A lot of hot watches end of in the hands of grey market dealers directly from ADs
- This in turn makes the supply even smaller
- Those grey dealers then have the power to set the price, and they watch each other closely / talk to each other often

It's like an unofficial cartel :)

[Watchcollector123]

Not rude but definitely unrealistic.
Many sellers on Chrono 24 have a set low price and will not entertain offers below that price.
I have made offers at significantly lower prices on Chrono 24 and once in a while they do get accepted. Just this week I offered £ 2150 on a watch priced at £2450 and it got accepted.
Chances of that happening with Daytona are zero to nil though.

[Frits1980]

All depends on the watch, hot models no way. Sellers that have fixed prices wont move in general. As someone said try to contact the store directly to get some discount if you dont care for the chrono24 protection.

[AF_Rob]

If a piece has been sitting for a while, especially in this market, it's not priced right. It's definitely reasonable to make an offer in the neighborhood where they are moving. People price with a bit of room to work with.

[gerry100]

I find the promotional "discounts" on the Grey sites funny.

Create a price and then discount from it? Really?

[WalterW]

Yea good idea on waiting for your ad on a Daytona. I’m sure they’ll be very accommodating

[peterp]

By todays Rolex market 5% would say is not offensive / realistic.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Chrono24 does not "value" or "suggest" anything. It's merely a platform on which sellers post their listings.

OP might also be looking at the algorithm’s current and historical data where as both play a part in valuation. A price on a model could look inflated by unsold asking prices but wouldn’t be adjusted until sold, all the data is rolling and aggregated. That’s why you’ll see fluctuations daily on the model. Only if every model sold at once would you know it’s true valuation.

[GB-man]

If you’re looking to bargain you’re looking at the wrong watch. Dealers aren’t in a rush to unload Daytona’s as they aren’t dead money. They rarely go down in value and they draw good trade ins.

[Tzmore]

You can ask from the person you're dealing with but I doubt if you would get YES' as an answer.

[donas]

I'd say make an offer at what ever you are comfortable with and think is fair. I have sold or traded a few watches on TRF; I have never minded people making offers, even crazy low ball ones (why not give it a shot). My complaint with low offers are those that take being declined personal. I once had a low ball offer I declined and then received numerous PMs berating me and telling me I was lying in my ad etc etc. So, to me, it's not the offer but how it's relayed.

[mquarter]

Originally Posted by donas

I once had a low ball offer I declined and then received numerous PMs berating me and telling me I was lying in my ad etc etc.

Yikes

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by donas

I'd say make an offer at what ever you are comfortable with and think is fair. I have sold or traded a few watches on TRF; I have never minded people making offers, even crazy low ball ones (why not give it a shot). My complaint with low offers are those that take being declined personal. I once had a low ball offer I declined and then received numerous PMs berating me and telling me I was lying in my ad etc etc. So, to me, it's not the offer but how it's relayed.

Wow. That's really tacky and very low brow for a potential buyer to do that to you. What a rude person. A transaction is a two way street and the buyer has no way of knowing what your bottom line net needs to be as a seller. Obviously there's going to a break even point where you would actually lose money if you go below that number. Some people are very selfish and don't even think about the other party in the transaction.


Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[amphr1]

So out of curiosity, I wanted to know what I could get for my brand new TT Explorer. I posted some pictures and send it to Bob's watch to see how much I could get for it. Guess what, they email me back saying that they have so many TT explorer, that they're not even going to give me a quote! I did not expect that at all! I thought maybe $1k or 2k over MSRP, but not giving an offer means there's actually more supply than demand! which is the opposite of what you'd expect on any Rolex today.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So out of curiosity, I wanted to know what I could get for my brand new TT Explorer. I posted some pictures and send it to Bob's watch to see how much I could get for it. Guess what, they email me back saying that they have so many TT explorer, that they're not even going to give me a quote! I did not expect that at all! I thought maybe $1k or 2k over MSRP, but not giving an offer means there's actually more supply than demand! which is the opposite of what you'd expect on any Rolex today.

Yeah, sucks if you bought it to flip . That’s how it used to be for all sports models outside the SS Daytona. GMTs and Subs were trading for 1-2k below msrp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Koolpep]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Yeah, sucks if you bought it to flip . That’s how it used to be for all sports models outside the SS Daytona. GMTs and Subs were trading for 1-2k below msrp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed. I also got the TT Explorer, it’s not a hot seller at all. They sit around at dealers. I couldn’t live with the size so eventually sold it for a shade above retail. Was glad I unloaded it, no regrets. On a smaller wrist though, it looks fab.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by Koolpep

Indeed. I also got the TT Explorer, it’s not a hot seller at all. They sit around at dealers. I couldn’t live with the size so eventually sold it for a shade above retail. Was glad I unloaded it, no regrets. On a smaller wrist though, it looks fab.

At the AD I thought it looked fabulous on my wrist. But I haven't been able to pair successfully with anything other than the sweater I wore when I purchased that day. So I'm planning to buy more thin crew neck dark sweater soon. Also wife hasn't worn it once because it's gold and we can't really wear it daily. So haven't bond with it. I'm still hopeful that I will when I figure out the right cloths and occasion to wear it with

[Robf52]

If you don't ask, you'll never know. All they can say is no.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by amphora001

I suppose you are right, it can be seen as a 20% discount. But I can also say that instead of a 180% profit, they'd only be getting 130% profit, still a huge win in the case that someone purchased it from an AD, having worn it for a year, and didn't bond with it. But yeah I suppose it's not realistic. It's just that having been on the selling side, not as someone who sells watches regularly, but as a private seller, the waiting to sell is just as painful as waiting to buy. Some buyer go grey because they can't stand to wait so long, and I think some seller can't stand to wait to sell also.

180% lol. their margins are 10%, maybe 20 but unlikely. also the ones that are priced high on chrono24 usually don't have the watch in stock. they put up a higher than normal price to fish for offers and if someone bites they go and get the watch knowing their margin before hand

you can always try to ask for a 20% discount but don't expect a reply

[donas]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Wow. That's really tacky and very low brow for a potential buyer to do that to you. What a rude person. A transaction is a two way street and the buyer has no way of knowing what your bottom line net needs to be as a seller. Obviously there's going to a break even point where you would actually lose money if you go below that number. Some people are very selfish and don't even think about the other party in the transaction.


Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Yea, I refuse to let strangers on the internet bother me, lol. It was quite a show though, he just went on and on. It was funny how at one point he wanted to buy the watch and then the next it was "an over polished piece of crap"